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Hello YouTube! This is Matt Powell from Way of Truth and I'm with Garrett Weiss, my dad will be joining shortly. We're going to be talking about the Trinity and the issue of the Trinity. It's kind of an issue that's been coming up recently, a lot of people don't believe in it, even though it's one of the most basic and most fundamental doctrines of the Bible and it just blows my mind how people just deny such a simple doctrine. I mean, how in the world could somebody deny, you know, the fact that God said, hey, let us make man in our image after our likeness? I mean, you have to deny Genesis chapter 1. And so it is a big issue, people are like, oh man, this is a small issue. Well, no, I think it's a pretty big issue and it's an issue that should be dealt with and it's an issue that should be brought up. There is a distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and people are like, oh my, that's polytheism. Absolutely not, you know, the Bible says there is a distinction, yet they're all one, they make up one God. And so, Garrett, do you want to just tell me, and when you start mixing the will of the Father and the will of the Son together and saying that they're one will, I feel like that's the first step to oneness Pentecostalism or, you know, this, you know, these oneness weirdos out there. And a lot of times these people that teach this oneness thing, most of the time, I'm going to be honest, I don't believe they're saved. Because if you have the Holy Ghost inside of you, if you have God working in your life, you're not going to just fall for false doctrine like that. And that's deep, deep false doctrine. And, you know, these same people that change the Trinity, they're the same people that are, they lack at soul wanting, they lack at, you know, they lack at the true gospel, for that matter, because, you know, the gospel is that God Himself had become. But that was through Christ, and Christ obviously had a different will than the Father did, and so forth. So, you know, if we look at Genesis chapter 1, you know, the Bible says, let God, you know, God said, let us make man in our image after our likeness. And, you know, the Bible says, and so God created man after his own image. And so it's very clear that God Himself, you know, created man after his own image, but the Bible says, let us. So what he's saying is, you know, it looks like we're gonna have somebody joining the chat that is not on the same page. All right, this will be interesting. This could turn into a debate. Let's see, wow, this guy wrote a long thing. I don't even think I have time to look at this, huh, yeah, I don't even think I have time to look at all this. But anyways, oh hey, Brooke, we're glad you joined, and hey, Josh, I'm glad you guys joined the conversation. I hope you stick around, because this is a big issue, and I don't know where you guys go to church, and, you know, I don't know where many of the people in this chat room go to church, or even if you do go to church, but I would recommend an independent Baptist church, King James only, very firm on that. But obviously, you know, this, let me look at what this guy's question is, because he's saying that he's against the Trinity. Okay, so he's saying, okay, so he's saying he basically believes in modalism. I guess, Garrett, what is your response when somebody says, hey, you know, I believe in full-blown modalism? How do you typically handle that? What is, what is some of the key scriptures that you go to to address that issue? You're on mute. You're muted. Yeah, one of the, can you hear me now? Yeah. Okay, yeah, I mean, one of the key scriptures I always go to is just Genesis 1 26, and I already talked about that, just because it just shows that just the first mention in the Bible just of the Trinity is just so right off the bat, and just, you know, there's different ones. I mean, is there anything you can think of right now? What's that? I mean, what's, what would you say is your go-to Trinity verse? I'd say 1 John 5, all throughout there, 5 9 and so forth. I mean, those verses are very clear that God manifests, you know, as a Trinity, that God is the Trinity. And I mean, you can't get any more clear than there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one, you know. And just to nail that home, Jesus said, he said, I am the living Word, you know, the next verse says, you know, there's the Father, Son, and the Word. Excuse me, the Father, the Holy Ghost, and the Word, and these three are one. So, you know, the Word and Christ are used interchangeably. But yeah, absolutely. Hey, Dad, it looks like you just joined the call. How you doing? I'm doing okay, Matt. How are you doing? Good, so we're about ten minutes into a discussion, a live discussion, on the Trinity. We have a couple people in the chat room. We're just dealing with a, you know, a church that recently came out and just kind of denied the Trinity. Obviously steadfast, or not steadfast, what is it, valiant Baptist over in Jacksonville? You talking about Tyler Baker? Yeah, yeah, I think he's the one that's, that's been, you know, denying the Trinity and so forth, but saying he's not denying it. And so our goal is to just kind of talk about the Trinity a little bit, and, you know, address the issue of this oneness Pentecostalism that's running rampant all throughout the churches. I know Brian Denlinger recently came out. Brian Denlinger sent me a couple things on the Trinity. He says, hey brother, you got to check this out. And sure enough, he's saying that the Trinity is actually pagan. And so, you know, and I don't, I don't believe Brian Denlinger is a brother to begin with, you know, and I don't understand why he, you know, he sends me these emails all mad, you know, because I'm not, I don't agree with him on Anderson. You know, I don't think Anderson's a Roman Catholic. But then, you know, he gets all mad, you know, and then all of a sudden he's happy, and he's like, hey brother Powell, you know, I wanted to send you this thing on the Trinity, you know. So, just curious, you know, dad, what are your thoughts? By the way, this caller, I know the name says Mike, but it's my dad, Steve Powell. He was in, he was in our film Eternal or Not. Great movie, I'd highly recommend you check it out. Viewer, if you get time. But, dad, just curious, what are some of your go-to verses when it comes to the Trinity? Not a problem, Matt. I'm hoping I come in okay on his phone, kind of coming in choppy here where I'm sitting right now. You're coming in great. But I think of John 1 1 through 14, in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God, the same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, the life was the light of men. So, the Word that's talking about there is is Jesus Christ, it is the Son. So, the Word was with God, the Word was God. Jesus made all things. He was the creating agent of God. He's that part of the Godhead, and that word Godhead really means Godhood. He's part, he's all God, and he's man, too. He's not the Father any more than the Father is the Son or the Holy Spirit, but they're all God. I love that in the movie where they have the shield that has God in the middle, into God. You have the Father is not the Son, Son is not the Father, the Son is not the Spirit, etc., but it all points into the middle saying that they are God, because they are God. There's not three gods, so one God existing in three persons. 1 John 5-7, you start thinking about who he is. It's like when Gethsemane, I think you covered that just a little bit, how Jesus said in Matthew, he went and he prayed great drops of blood, and he says, Father, nevertheless, not my will, but thy will be done. So if they were the same person, if the Son was the Father, then you got a very fundamental problem there because you have Jesus asking for not his will, but the Father's will to be done. So if he was the Father, he would say, not my will, but my will be done. I mean, it would just be stupid. It would be inanimate that way to say it. So the Son is the Son, the Father is the Father, the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. These three exist in one. It goes back to Genesis, like you had said there, and you and Gary were talking, let us make man in our image after our likeness. So God made man in his own image, and the image of God made he him, male and female made he them. So even though a woman is fully a woman, she's also known as man, they were made male and female. So anyway, yeah, that's what I like to tell people, you know, you're made in the image of God, God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And we're body, soul and spirit. But you know, that's not even the best analogy to use. But you know, God is, Jesus is God, he's God with flesh on. He always existed. He's got many places he existed in the Old Testament, where he showed up. Get into some of that too. But Jesus, he's, there's no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved. You know, as the people try to change his name today to other names. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that for a minute. Let's talk about that for a minute, the changing of the other names to this Yeshua thing. You know, a lot of people are, I mean, this is running rampant right now. I mean, there are just so many people coming to me, oh my goodness, we've discovered the real name of Jesus Christ. You know, and for a while, when I was about 17 years old, you probably remember this, Dad, I kind of fell for it. I'm like, well, you know, he was a Hebrew, maybe this is his real name, I don't know. But I would never go as far as to say, back then, I never went as far as to say that the name of Jesus would be pagan. That's crazy. Right. Anybody that says that, I would say they're not saved. There's no way somebody with the Holy Spirit inside of them could say that the name of Jesus Christ is a pagan name. And so, you know, well, no man speaking by the Spirit of God, call it Jesus accursed. He's not accursed. And it's amazing, you know, his name, the angel came to Mary, said call his name Jesus. The Bible, the New Testament was put in Greek, it wasn't in Hebrew, no matter what the different groups of people say out there, that it was originally written in Hebrew, and then translated later into Greek, no, it was written in Greek. And anything later is Johnny come lately. He said, I am the Alpha and the Omega. He didn't say I'm the olive in the top. You know, some pretty powerful evidences in the Bible, to claim that Jesus is Jesus. Right. That name? Dad, I mean, you just look at it. Yeah. I mean, you just look at the fact that Satan, he knows that if he can get us disconnected from our first love, which is Christ, and get us disconnected just from the name of Jesus Christ, then he knows he's got us. It's, I mean, it's very simple. And the thing is, what would be a better strategy for him? The Bible says that in Acts 4-12, it says that there is no other name given under heaven among men whereby we must be saved, which is the name of Jesus Christ. Obviously, a perfect strategy for Satan would be if he can get us disconnected from that, which is salvation. Folks, you have to call on Jesus to be saved. You cannot, you absolutely cannot call on the name of Yeshua and be saved. I'm sorry, that doctrine will send you straight to hell. You need to call on Jesus Christ. You can't call on Buddha, Allah, Muhammad, or some other false god. It's got to be Jesus Christ. And there's a big attack right now in the name of Jesus Christ. And they're saying, well, there's no letter J. Dad, what's your response to that, where people will say there's no letter J? Well, there is the J. There's the J sound. I mean, if you get a 1611 Bible and you start reading it, they've always called the Jewish people Jews, right? Always call them Jews. Amen. If you look in a 1611 King James Bible, and we've got one around here to show that, you can look at the word Jews as I-E-W-E-S. Well, there's Jews. Okay, now, so obviously the I was the letter J. Now, if you take the name Jesus, I-E-S-O-U-S, which is your Greek Jesus, that's the same as Jews or Judah, I-U-D-A-H, whatever. The I was the J sound. Right, so just because the sound, just because the letter didn't exist doesn't mean that the pronunciation wasn't there. They still pronounced the Jews. I mean, it's very, it just blows my mind. That's their number one argument that they go to. Somebody in the chat room had a question. Somebody in the chat room had a question. They said, there's a reason John said, in the beginning was the word, not in the beginning was the song. And I will say this. I will say this. I don't want to get smart with the person because I don't know where they're at. But I will say, when it says in the beginning was the word, we need to let the Bible interpret itself. Jesus says, I am the living word. So of course, in the beginning was the song. In the beginning was the word. The word and the son are used interchangeably. That's why Jesus stood up in the midst of the people and said, I am the living word. And so that's an answer to that question. You guys have any more thoughts on that, Garrett? Yeah, I mean, just in that in John one, one where it says in the beginning was the word and the word is with God and the word, the word was God. And verse 14, it says, and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. That's right. That's right. Right there, just later in the verse, it says the beginning, in the beginning was the word, the word is with God and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. And who's that? That's Jesus Christ. The hold his glory. Yep. The hold his glory. That's right. Amen. So really, we just have to let the Bible interpret itself. And if we look in context, it's very clear. The Bible has its own context. And, you know, yesterday, I was discussing some biblical things with an old earth creationist. And, you know, one of the things that he had said is, you know, we have to use extracurricular sources to interpret the Bible, you know, because if you're going to believe in evolution, then you don't have a choice, because the Bible is so crystal clear that the earth was created in six literal days. And folks, this just, I know this is off topic, but don't be deceived by evolution. There's so many people that come to me and are like, Oh, my, we can embrace Christianity and evolution. Absolutely not. Evolution is a fraud. It's a lie out of the pit of hell. And we need to abstain from all appearance of evil. And evolution is actually religion, you know, and they're trying to fit the Bible, it's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it won't work. But, you know, as for the Trinity, let's see if we have any, there's a lot of questions showing up in the chat room here, or a couple questions. Let me see. Do I sound bad like that? All right. So anyways, yeah, I mean, we'll just continue the conversation. There's no real big questions here. Other than some of the chatters that are chatting back and forth on this on this issue. So one of the things that somebody had asked is, you know, is, let me see here. Scripture says that Jesus is the beginning of creation in Revelation 3.14. Doesn't that mean that Jesus had a literal beginning? And so, Garrett, do you want to answer that? Let me just get there. Dad, do you have an answer on that while Garrett thinks of his? Revelation 3? Yes, I do. But yeah, Revelation 3.14 here, what does it say? In verse 14, it says, and unto the angel of the church of the late Laodiceans, right, these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. Okay, so we need to distinguish between what we mean by creation. Because, you know, again, we have to let the Bible interpret itself. If I was to read Revelation 3.14 on its own, and without any, without the Holy Spirit, or even just any other context of Scripture, sure, it could become confusing and say, oh, he's the beginning of the creation of God. Well, here's the thing the Bible says in Colossians one, that Jesus is the first born of every creature. And most Jehovah's Witnesses and people stop there and say, well, see, he's the first born of every creature. But wait a minute, the Bible says he's the first born later on from the dead, which means that Christ is the first fruits, he's the first one to resurrect. So when it says he's the first born of creation, first born what? First born from the dead. He, you know, he was the first one to raise a bodily, you know, and it wasn't just a spiritual resurrection, it was a bodily resurrection. That also speaks to his position to the first begotten of the dead. He's the only person who's ever had that position of authority to say that he was the first begotten of the dead. Amen. Do you have any thoughts on that, Dan? Hold on just a second. Can you guys hear me okay? Yeah, we can hear you fine. Here's why. I mean, it sounds so tinny coming back and it's like mutated coming my way. I can't hear you guys very well, or even a lot of times the questions you're asking. So I don't want to be speaking things that I'm not hearing properly. So please ask the question again. Sure. Well, basically, there's a there's somebody in the chat room that's asking. They're asking if they're saying that it looks like Jesus was a created being. He's the first born from the dead, like you were saying. You know, it's not by him all things exist. By him all things were created. Well, God does the creating. He's the back in the garden when God said, let us make man in our image after our likeness. Well, Jesus did all the creating. You know, three very different personalities, but yet one God. Right. And there's no way we can actually rationalize it in our own finite minds. It's like trying to apply a finite understanding to an infinite being. And, you know, logically speaking, we cannot do that. So when it comes to the Trinity, I just accept it by faith, even though I don't perfectly understand it. Now, you know, a lot of people, a lot of people say, well, if you can't understand it, then it doesn't, then it's not true. But that's the beauty of God. The Bible says great is the mystery of godliness. God was manifest in the flesh. So it's literally a mystery. You know, it's something that we cannot fully comprehend, but we need to accept what the Bible says, what the King James Bible says, by faith. And just curious, to the King James guy in the chat room, it's kind of ironic. I mean, I've never heard of somebody that's like King James only, and yet doesn't believe that Jesus is God. Just curious, are you King James only? Could you let us know? And then Garrett, I know you're gonna say something. Okay, let me go. Yeah. I mean, I just don't. So I'm just looking at the wording of that. And just in the context of everything, this is talking to all the different churches. The angel, you know, is talking about each church. And it says it, I mean, there's a continuation after it says, I know thy works that thou art neither cold nor hot, I would that thou were cold or hot. And just what's coming to my coming to my mind is just says the beginning of the creation of God. You know, what came to mind was, again, in the beginning with the word, and the word is with God, and the word was God, the same was in the beginning with God. You know, to me, that's just sounds like the beginning of the creation of God. You know, God was in the beginning. Yeah. And he was there for the creation. I don't think it's saying that God or Jesus was created. You know, I don't even think it's saying that. It's not with that, probably. But I just don't think that's even what the thought it would just be a random. That's not saying Yeah, that's not saying that he was created. You guys hear me still? Okay. Yeah. It's saying he's created the same world in the beginning, with God, who's the same? The Word, who's the Word, Jesus Christ, who was made flesh, Jesus Christ, who dwelled among us, and we beheld his glory, Jesus Christ. So he was with God. There are three that bear record in heaven, Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. And these three are one. So they're one and you know, as one is being three, three persons, as one God, not a oneness, Pentecostal, Tyler Baker style belief system here. You know, I've had I had a friend of mine one time tell me that God is one Jesus is the Father. And actually, what he what he did, he tried to take me to Revelation, and show me that when the scroll was given to Jesus, in chapter five, and you know how the scroll was handed to him that he actually became the father there. I'm thinking how in the world can you pick that out of there? I remember the worst kind of messed up thing I've ever heard on that. And then if you you look around, what about, you know, all you have to do is read on and you'll see, because his his logic was, well, there's only one throne in heaven, and there's only one God. So he's sitting on the throne. Well, doesn't it say that Jesus sat at the right hand of the Father in heaven, sat at the right hand? Right. Well, I mean, when somebody tries to say that the Son became the Father, two things wrong with that, obviously, all world religions outside of biblical Christianity, reject, I'm talking not only reject, but absolutely despise the Trinity. They hate that doctrine. And in order for the Antichrist to be able to step up, they have to deny that doctrine. And they're going to let everybody know, hey, God is one, and nobody can believe in the Trinity. It would not surprise me if that was the case in the near future, when we go to deal with this sort of thing. I think you're right. I think you're exactly right. I mean, it's unique to every, it's unique to every other religion. I mean, every other religion believes that the Trinity is pagan. Whereas Genesis 1-1, I mean, in the beginning, God, and then you go further on, and it says that God said, let us make man in our image. So God's like, look, you know, he's triune. And it just seems that people, some people just can't wrap it around their brains. And you know what, if you cannot accept the Trinity, then you're probably not saved. You know, and don't come at me and say, oh, you're John Calvin, because that's ridiculous. You know, John Calvin was just an idiot. And just because some loser like John Calvin says something like that doesn't make it untrue. You know, God can use anybody. God used Pharaoh. You know, a man whose heart was hardened by God. God can use anybody. And I'm not saying God used John Calvin. John Calvin was a total idiot. But you know what, even a broken clock is right twice a day. And that's the thing. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Okay. I was just gonna say this. They always say that just, you know, the Trinity is pagan, because this is their big proof, because it's Catholic. No, it's just like that. It's Catholic, therefore it's bad. Yes, that is, that's what they say. It's Catholic, pagan. Usually the ones that rant the longest about this are out there. It's like going back to the name changer. The acquaintance of mine one time tell me around my family that the name of Jesus really meant nothing. And I tell you, it offended me to my soul. Because the name above all names, that's the name where I got saved by. And no man speaking by the Spirit of God call it call it Jesus accursed. He's not cursed. You know, he he became sin for us. He died was buried. The same group people will tell you that sowing doesn't work today. And that they don't call him, you know, God. They'll call him Yeah, yeah, or, or Yahweh called us out to be part of this fellowship of believers, what they'll do, they'll dance around with their little flags, and they won't go out, they came out to be part of their movement, but they won't do what Jesus said and go into all the world and preach the gospel. They didn't do that. So to me, you know, I've gotten to see firsthand, just how wicked this really is. And you know, even the ones out there that do quote, so when they'll go out, and they'll win him in Jesus name, but then they come back and say, Well, you know, we just saw that for the fact of winning you over to our way of thinking, we will, we'll win them in Jesus name, but then we show them that the real name is Yeshua. And really, that's, it's just a lie. This would take anybody off. I bet. Yeah, people, even the people that I met with tonight, they were saying that they met some people that were in a church they were in. And these people came along and told them, you know, you need to be calling him by his real Jewish name. And you need to do this and do that what it does it get people out of the soul winning mode where they're not going at all, because it doesn't work today. I had a guy tell me that he snacked on many hundreds of doors in his life, and that he's seen absolutely zero saved. I'm thinking, wait a minute. If you don't see souls saved, you don't have the right gospel. You probably not save yourself. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I completely agree with you on that. Most of the people that I see, they get tied up with them. They'll, they'll tell you that they can lose their salvation. So they're keeping their salvation by keeping the right. You know, they're going to add the law. I had another guy tell me, you know, the law is part of salvation. Who are we trying to get? That's what they tried to say. But you know what I do, that you keep the law. You're guilty of all that law is not a big deal. It's not all it's to show you it's your school masters to show you you are a sinner and you've broken God's law. Yeah, I love that in Galatians how it says the law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. And so it seems to be coming in and out a little bit. But anyways, uh, and then they'll say, Well, you know, Hashem, he seems to be a fraud, too. We just don't got it at all. Even by the Lord, he bought, he's, he bought the whole world. If they'll accept him, you know, you can't lose your salvation once you prayed you to Christ, you're in. But the devil, that's another thing. That's another thing these people tend to get off on is the fact that once you're saved, you're always saved. I mean, I love that phrase, once saved, always saved. I think it's a very appropriate phrase. And, you know, there was a, I was out soul winning with Chris Gillham the other day and Garrett Weiss, he's on the call. And Chris Gillham and I ran into a young lady. She's like 18 and just a couple years younger than me. And when she heard the gospel, and we had to explain to her, Look, you don't have to turn over a new leaf, because she was under the impression going to this non-denominational joke Bible study, that she had to turn over a new leaf to be saved. And I'm thinking to myself, No, you don't have to be saved. You know, do that to be saved. And when I explained the gospel to her, when we went through the whole gospel, and we got down to the very end, I asked her, I said, Would you like to receive Christ? Chris and I asked her if she'd like to receive Christ. And she just began, because she finally understood how simple it is to be saved. It is not hard to accept a gift. If you have to do anything other than believe and receive that gift, it's not a gift. It's a fraud, if anybody's preaching that kind of gospel. And, you know, no offense to this guy on here who's trying to save at the Trinity's pagan, King James, or whatever your name is. But I will say this, there's probably no difference between what you're saying. And I mean, as far as the Trinity, as far as I'm concerned with the Trinity thing, there's no difference between what you're saying and the rest of the world religions, number one. Number two, your stance on salvation is probably the same too. I mean, most people that get off on the Trinity will say you can lose your salvation, that it's not by faith alone that you have to turn over a new leaf. You know, Pastor Ron Lovell is a perfect example of this. And, you know, there might be people from his church listening to this. You know what, if you go to his church, you know what, I'm sure you're probably saved, you're probably very confused. You know, and I love the people of that church. The people of that church, God bless them, it's a small church, but you know what, they got a new guy in there and this guy is a heretic. You know, and people are like, man, I can't believe that you cut Ron Lovell from your film. Look, I don't want anything to do with anybody that's going to teach a false gospel. This guy, you know, he got up during a sermon, he says, you know, Jesus is at the door and he's knocking. He's saying, hey, I want to come in there, but you got to clean house first. I mean, what nonsense. I mean, I almost, I mean, I'm thinking, man, the former pastor, Bill Stites, probably would have turned over in his grave. You know, but of course the people, some of them are, you know, simple-minded and they fall for this stuff. Folks, do not be deceived. You know, the Bible says that, that Satan was able to make void the simplicity that is in Christ and the simplicity of the gospel. And we need to understand that. We need to apply that. And you know, a lot of people look at me and they're like, man, you're such a confrontational guy, Matt Powell. You're just so insane. Well, you know what? I'm really tired of seeing people go off into false doctrine. I've seen it long enough and I was a part of it as well. And God had to bring me out and folks, please do not be deceived on the Trinity not being biblical. So at some point, somebody is going to tell you, hey, the Trinity is not biblical and you have to be ready to defend God's word. And, you know, at some point somebody is going to come up to you and they're going to say, hey, you got to turn over a new leaf to be saved. John Singleton is a perfect example of this. You know, he's saying you got to turn over a new leaf and then call on Jesus, you know? And I asked John Singleton, I'm like, look, man, you know, because he thinks you can lose your salvation. I said, John, are you 100% sure you're going to heaven? And the first word that came out of John Singleton's mouth was if. If. I mean, the love of Christ is not contingent on our behavior as his children. It doesn't have a contingency to it. The love of God is not conditional. It's called unconditional grace, unconditional love. And so when people try like this John Singleton dude, you know, you get on his channel, everybody's on there is confused because he's preaching a false gospel. And the Bible says, mark them which cause divisions among you and avoid them contrary to the doctrine which you have learned. So John Singleton's a heretic and he's been putting out videos against me, Steve Anderson, Renee Rollin. Renee Rollin's a great lady and he's putting videos against all these people. And John Singleton, if you're watching this, repent. Seriously, repent because we've had enough of this. I mean, this is just ridiculous. I mean, what do you do all day? Just sit behind your computer and make a bunch of videos about stuff that you think isn't even affecting the kingdom of God. I mean, it just, to me, it makes no sense. So I pray you repent. Matt. Yeah. You want to, you want to talk, you want to talk about Isaiah 44 24, the King James King? Yeah. One of the, one of the people brought it up. Which person of the Godhead is talking in Isaiah 44 24? I'm just, you want me to read it? Go ahead. Okay. 24 it says, thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer and he that formed thee from the womb. I am the Lord that maketh all things that stretches forth the heavens alone that spread at the broad, the earth by myself. So he's asking which person of the Godhead is talking in Isaiah 44 24? The Father? I mean, I think it's pretty clear. He says, I am the Lord. Right. I mean, usually when we, when we talk about the Lord, all, all capital K, you know, capital letters, it's talking about the Lord God being, you know, God, the Father, you know, that says the Lord God and the father of our Lord Jesus Christ throughout the new Testament. So absolutely it's talking about God and the Father. Right. Jehovah. Yeah. So hopefully that answers your question, King James. Oh, Aaron Ben's saying the son, that was the son speaking. Probably had to take a closer look at the package. But, but anyways, yeah. So do we have any questions in the chat room? Viewers, does anybody have any questions? Even if it's not related to the Trinity, we'll still be open to address any questions that we have on here. So. James says, if the Father was talking, he says, if the Father is talking, then he seems to be saying that he had no help. Well, you're, I mean, the Bible does say, you know, he says, I am the Lord, your God. He says, I change not. And then he says, I am the Lord your God. He says, and there is none beside me. There is beside me, there is no savior. And so that just shows that God is one. He's one God, but he can manifest in three persons, the father, the son and the Holy ghost. So it's really simple. And we have to let the Bible interpret itself. You know, I don't read, you know, thou shalt not kill for example, and then say, Oh man, I got to get rid of my fly squatters, my mouse traps and everything in my house that could kill any insects. You know, obviously you got to divide the word and see what he means by thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, bearing false witness, et cetera, you know? And so, you know, we have to rightly divide the word and it's very clear in Micah five, two, the Bible says the Messiah's goings forth have been from old, from everlasting. If Jesus Christ is a created being, then the Bible would have to be telling us a lie because the Bible says he's from everlasting. And if we can't believe the Bible, then we have nothing to stand on. Right. Amen. You have any other thoughts, Garrett? Yeah. I mean, and it all goes back to salvation, you know, like we're talking about, you know, just, you know, we're talking about like the train, you know, he that is of God here with God's words, therefore you hear them because you're not a God. One of the most main things that, you know, that we're talking about, you know, it's obviously the false doctrine, but also salvation. You know, the Bible says for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. So God wants to give everybody a gift and it's eternal life. And it's in Jesus Christ. The Bible says in Ephesians two, eight, nine, four, by grace, are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, let's name man Shabos. So the Bible says it's freely given it's by grace through faith, which is just trust in Christ. And it says in that not of yourself. So it has nothing to do with how good we are. That gets us into heaven. It's you can't go to church to get to heaven. You can't earn it to get to heaven. You can't be a good person to get to heaven. It's just a free gift paid for by Jesus Christ on the cross. And it says not of works, let's name man Shabos. So there's nothing you can do to earn your salvation. It's just freely given. And once you get that gift of eternal life, it lasts forever. And there's nothing you can ever do to lose your salvation. Right. And, you know, as I've studied more, Garrett, and as I've, you know, and just so the viewers know, I want to make myself very clear to any of my former friends from years and years ago that might be watching this. I want to make myself very clear. I believe that once you're saved, you're always saved. And I believe very firmly that if you do not believe once saved, always saved, you're not even saved. I believe that. And I know people will be upset. Some people will say, man, that's so harsh. Now, I'm not saying you can't get confused on an issue if you're a babe in Christ. I know of people that have gotten confused. But you know, by the grace of God, God has brought them back into the fold. The Bible says He'll leave in 99 and go back to grab the one. But folks, if you don't believe that God has saved you forever, then you're still working to get to heaven. I'm sorry, that's just the reality of it. But what I love about it is the Bible says, you know, as a father scourges his son or chases his son, so also shall the Lord your God chases you. So when we mess up, when we sin, when we do wrong, God promises to chase him, but to never cast us off. And it's just, it's the same way with a father. I always ask people, when Garrett always asks people, when we're out soul winning, hey, is there anything you can do to not be your earthly dad, son, or daughter, and so forth? And the person will always respond, no. Once you're in there, once you're born, you're born. There's nothing you can do to change that. And people are like, oh my, don't I have free will? Well, here's the thing. You know, you can accept Christ, sure. But once you're in God's family, how can I say, oh, you know, I have enough free will to not become my earthly dad's son? That doesn't make any sense, because it's simply impossible. So there are certain things, and that's idolatry, to say that you have that much free will to be able to do something like that. You know, when God is your father, he's your father, period. It's a done deal. That's right. Well, anyways, guys, I think we'll probably wrap up this chat. You know, this discussion was in response to a couple people here in Michigan, mainly in the Hebraic Roots movement. I've got some friends that have gone into that thing, and it's a joke. I mean, I went to a fellowship just to check it out, and the thing is an absolute joke. You know, I want nothing to do with that movement, and, you know, people are always asking me about this Yeshua thing. They're like, man, you know, you have so much potential. Why don't you just use it? You know what? The Bible says those who do know their gods shall be strong and do exploits, and when you go out soul winning with people like, you know, my father or Garrett, you'll see great exploits done, and you'll see souls saved, but this whole movement, they're denying the Trinity. They're denying that salvation is by faith alone. They're laying the heavy burden of the law, certain aspects of the law on people, which obviously were done away in Christ. There are so many things that are wrong with that movement, and it is a cult, and, you know, I don't say that just loosely. I've had heavy thoughts about this because I have friends in that movement, and, you know, to all my friends in that movement, folks, please do not use this Yeshua thing for your own sake. It is your salvation. Jesus' name is your salvation. Do not get disconnected from that. Amen. Do you have any other thoughts? Dad, we're going to wrap this thing up here in a minute. Oh, Colossians. Okay, so King James just commented. He says, Jesus is the express image of the Father, according to Colossians 1.15. Do you want to answer that, Dad? Hey, he's the image of the Father, as far as, you know, you're the image of me. You're coming in and out pretty bad. We'll just have Garrett answer the question, but stay on the call if you could. Sure. I mean, just the best way I can answer that possible is, yeah, he is the express image of God. I mean, he has a lot of same attributes as God the Father. You know, he loves the lost. You know, he's definitely not the Father, but, you know, even in the Old Testament, you know, he calls Jesus the everlasting Father. You know, he's so close with the Father that he has a lot of the same, you know, desires of the Father. So, that's just one of the things that I could just throw out there. Amen. Amen. So, in closing, I think we'll just go with a couple closing statements. I guess, Garrett, we'll start with you, and then Dad, we'll go to you next, and then we'll close out. Yep. In closing, I just, you know, I feel very strongly about the Trinity, and that, you know, it needs to stay out of Baptist circles, out of Christianity, I mean, in its entirety, but specifically out of Baptist circles. You know, it's never been here, and, you know, I'm just gonna fight it tooth and nail, and, you know, until we see something happen with that. All right. Hey, Garrett, somebody just commented. We're not done yet. So, a guy by the name of Kenny D. is asking me, because when I debated the atheists in the atheistic community, you know, I'm gonna be honest, the non-sequitur show was an absolute joke. They told me nothing about what was gonna happen. I didn't have any clue that four atheists were gonna team up on me, and, you know, I'd be more than happy to do it again, because the thing is, you know, they obviously, they weren't very logical people. They didn't know their arguments very well, and no offense to them, they were just misquoting the Bible, and I was constantly having to correct them on Sodom and Gomorrah, but Kenny, to answer your question, would I say anything different about the homosexuals? Absolutely not. I think homosexuality is absolutely disgusting. I believe it's reprobate. I believe it's filthy, and, you know, there is a time to hate, the Bible says, and the Bible says, I mean, these people are given over to a reprobate mind. You know, you would probably agree with me that homosexuality is not a natural sin. Well, how did they get that way? Well, God would have to give up on them, and God's like, fine, if you want to go this route, if you want to forget God and hate God, fine, I'll give you up to vile affections, and that's what Romans chapter one says, and so when God gives up on somebody and turns them over to a reprobate mind, and they become a homosexual, I don't believe that that person at that point can be saved. Garrett, do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I'll just answer the question that he said. So, you know, he says, would you still say the same thing? You know, I just first want to say that just we're not, we don't believe in vigilante justice. We don't believe that people should go out and just do, and just, just execute the Bible and just do a work, work, but the Bible does say in Leviticus 2013, if a man also shall, or I'm sorry, 2013 says, if a man also shall lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death, their blood shall be upon them. So to answer your question, I mean, that's what the Bible says, you know, and if I don't believe the Bible, then I don't know why I'm a Christian, and I don't know why I even read it. Right, and the same God that took out Sodom and Gomorrah is the same God we have today, and he says, I am the Lord your God, I change not, and when it comes to homo, okay, granted, I will say this, I will admit this, there are people that are sexually confused, and those people, you know what, I think God can have mercy on them, and they can be restored, but if somebody is an open homo, you know, if somebody's been abused as a child, maybe they're having some issues, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, even some of the people in the LGBT community, unless they are like really, unless they're obviously a homo, I will still reach out and give them a gospel tract, ask them if they're sure they're going to have them. Now, if they're, if it's obvious that they're a practicing homosexual, I don't even go there, because the Bible says they've been given over to a reprobate mind, but if there's somebody who's, I'm sure there's a lot of people in this world that are very confused, that aren't sure about themselves in that manner, and you know what, God bless those people, I hope they come to know Christ, I love those people, and it's not like God just openly damned all these homos to hell, they had to first hate God, and God had to say, okay, my spirit will not always strive with man, and so there does come a point where God actually gives them over to a reprobate mind, so I hope that answers your question, Kenny, you know, and I know that's not a popular teaching, Christians hate on me for this, they're like, oh my, you know, this is so terrible that you'd say this about the homosexuals, but the thing is, you know, if somebody is willing to have, if a man is willing to have sex with another man, he would have sex with anything, I mean, if you're willing to have sex with something as disgusting as another man, if you're a man, you would have sex, and so that's why I firmly believe that all homosexuals, open homosexuals, not people that are confused, but open homos are pedophiles, I believe that, and I believe the Bible teaches that as well. Yeah, and the Bible says there's no temptation taking you but such as is common to man, and that is not common to man. Yeah, definitely not common to man, and it's funny, you speak out against the homos, and then the whole community just freaks out, you know, and if they see this, I don't care, put a strike on me, I don't care, you know what, I'm still going to preach the word of God, and I'm going to tell the homos right now, if there's any homos listening to this that are reprobates, and again, I want to make a distinction here, there are people that are confused, I'm not trying to be down on those people, but look, if you're a reprobate, and you hate God, and you're like an axe murderer, or whatever, and you're fulfilling the reprobate commission, you know, I stand completely on the word of God, and the word of God says that there's a death penalty on it, it's not by me, not by any of us, it's by the government, the government should execute criminals, and you know, if somebody murders somebody, they should be put to death, if somebody molests a child, they should be put to death, and a guy that's going around having sex with other men, the Bible says that there's a death penalty on that, and I make no apology for that, and if that sounds hateful, I'm sorry, that's what God's word says, we either accept it, or we have to reject it, and I just accept the Bible by faith, and you know, homosexuality is not a natural thing, it is not natural, it's unnatural, it's just disgusting, and the only way that somebody could become a homosexual, an open homosexual, not somebody that's confused, but open homosexual, is if God would give them over to that, and you know, like Romans 1 says, the Bible says, God gave them over to vile affections, you know, folks, I'm not making this stuff up, we're not making this stuff up, Garrett, how old are you? 24. 24, I'm 22, we didn't even talk about this previously, but we just, I mean, we look at Romans chapter 1, and it's just so clear, you know, and Garrett, I mean, do you agree as far as like the homosexual thing with the pedophiles and all that? Yeah, without a doubt, I mean, it's clear, Romans chapter 1, read Genesis 19, and Jude, all of Jude, actually, I mean, if you can read all that, and then come away with anything other than that, I mean, you're trying not to see it, right, which I mean, it's something that's not pleasant, I mean, it's not something that people are like, you know, you enjoy, you know, obviously every word of God is pure, and you know, nothing is, you know, and we love the Lord, we love his word, but you know, not everything is a pleasant subject to talk about, but it is the truth, and you know, we got to love the truth. All right, I got a couple guys that are going preach it, brother, and I appreciate that, thank you for the encouragement, but there's a guy, Kenny D, Kenny D, I'm sure you're a brother in Christ, I'm sure you're a really good guy, really great fellow, probably really down to earth, and I know you're saying that, you know, we're not in Leviticus today, but again, I want to reiterate, I believe that the same God of Leviticus is the same God we have today, I don't believe that God changed on this, and when it comes to God's judgment, I don't believe the judgment of God has changed, you'd have to show me a place where it changed the New Testament, like other laws, for example, you can see clearly where other laws were changed, when it comes to this issue, when it comes to homosexuality, the Bible is even worse in the New Testament against these homos, I mean, the Bible speaks even worse of them, I mean, it says, you know, even as Sodom and Gomorrah, you know, had to suffer this vengeance, you know, it says that they're going to suffer the same vengeance in the future, in Revelation, so, you know, Jesus Christ, the Bible says Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so. Yeah, I mean, I haven't had one person show me a verse in the Bible where it says that the governmental laws is not a way with, I mean, it's, you see in Colossians and Hebrews, it says that the meats, the drinks, the divers, washings, and the carnal ordinances, which they said that they were imposed on us until the time of Jesus's coming, but it never says anything that, like, the law has done away with. I mean, the New Testament specifically says what's done away with, and that's never included, so. Right, right, it never mentions homosexuality, not once, and if it does mention homosexuality, it's reinforcing what it says in Leviticus. Yep, and, I mean, and when I think about this, I think when Jesus comes back, and, you know, the millennial kingdom happens, you know, what kind of laws are we going to follow? Yeah, it's not going to be the Constitution, I can tell you that much, so what law would he institute? Well, it would be his Leviticus, his governmental law, the law we're under. Amen, it's amazing, a lot of the laws that we're going to go back to in the millennial reign of Christ are the same laws there in Leviticus, so, you know, it's like, okay, I'm going to be the same up to this point, but then for this dispensation, I'm going to, you know, work this way, and I'm going to go back to the same thing. No, he's the same yesterday, today, and forever. It looks like somebody's probably going to be joining the chat, but Kenny D., I respect you, man, I really respect where you're coming from. We disagree on the issue, that's okay, if you'd ever like to come on and have a live chat on it, or just even just a regular discussion over the phone, I'd be more than happy to talk to you about it, but again, I think the Bible is very clear on the issue, and, you know, I just, I don't think the Bible could be any more clear, that these, that these, that certain homos, that certain of these really out there homos are indeed given over to a reprobate mind. So, but I think we'll probably get off the subject of homosexuality, because, you know what, I enjoy talking about things with freedom on here, and the thing is, I understand that this is 2018 America, we could get banned for hate speech or something, you know, because it's considered hate speech, although 20 years ago, the IFB preachers were preaching the same thing that we're saying right now, and, you know, I think it's time that a younger generation stands up. Look, folks, I'm a college student, for crying out loud, I'm not really much of a preacher, I preach occasionally, but, you know something, I'm a college student, and I'm fed up with this stuff, and so Garrett, just out of college, I mean, we are young men, it's not like we're a bunch of old guys that have been in church all their lives, look, we're young guys that have had enough of the worldly system, and even the people in the secular world now are starting to flip out, because there's so much propaganda, that the media is pushing, and this racist stuff, and this homosexual stuff, and just all this stuff, you know, and it's getting the point where people just have to take a firm stand, and you know what, the only way to shut me up is to put a bullet through my head, because I will not stop preaching the word of God. Amen. Anyways. Again, Gina KJV, thank you so much. You know, honestly, I saw your comment on Skylar Fictions' channel, that discussion was very interesting, and I will say this about Skylar, that guy is, I mean, before I went on the discussion with him, he's like, oh yeah, I'm an atheist, but then, you know, I got in a discussion with him, and it turns out he's a deist, and he just hates God, so he's like, oh man, I can't believe there's a death penalty for homosexuals. Sorry, I hate to break it to you, you know, whether you like it or not, and all his arguments were based off of how he felt, you know, he felt a certain way, oh, you know, how can you be, well, you know what, let's just accept all the murderers too, you know, let's accept all the pedophiles too, let's just love everybody and accept, no, there is a line to be drawn. What are your thoughts, Garrett? Well, it says there's a time to love and a time to hate, so if we weren't allowed to hate, then that verse wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, so I completely agree. I don't know if that's what you were asking me, but you just brought that up, so yeah. Hey, Garrett, how does somebody, let me ask you, how does somebody get turned over to a reprobate mind? Well, in Romans 1 it says they did not want to retain God and their knowledge, so that's how they started was, you know, at some point they were hardened towards God. They had, you know, whether, you know, whether it was unfortunately like a situation where they were abused as a child or they just flat out hated God, you know, and let me turn there. Romans 1, let me get there because I'm quoting a lot of it, but I'm kind of quoting it out of order. Yes, it's because when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened, so one of the first, one of the examples of the Bible is Pharaoh, you know, Moses was sent to Pharaoh to let the Israelites go and over and over in the Bible it says that Pharaoh hardened his heart, Pharaoh hardened his heart, and then it starts saying then God hardened Pharaoh's heart, so we see first that Pharaoh hardened his own heart and then God hardened his heart after that to not let the people go, so yeah. Hey, Garrett, let's pause. Looks like somebody just joined and I can already tell this is probably going to be good. I already like this guy's tag after the tribulation. I think this is going to be interesting, but I did have an atheist that asked me a question in the chat room because there's a lot of atheists that are subscribed to my channel. He says, Matt, I defend your right to say these things even though I disagree. I'm a former IFB, now atheist. Do you think there's even a chance you could be wrong about the Bible or do you know it to be true? I'm going to be honest. Cohen is the guy's name, Cohen Williams. Cohen, I'm going to be honest, you know, I come from, you know, up until I was 11 years old, I was atheistic myself. You know, I had no belief in God whatsoever and so, you know, when I turned 11, you know, I had studied logic and then came to faith in God and then I wanted to attend but a week later came to faith in Christ after hearing the gospel and how simple it was. And, you know, to be honest, there's no way that I, when you know something's true, you know something's true. And, you know, I'm just going to use this illustration and we'll jump to something else, but, you know, Cohen, let's say, for example, one guy from one direction, one guy from another direction, one guy from in front of you, one guy behind you, all came to you and said the same thing, but these guys don't know each other, you would believe them. You'd say, man, they're telling the truth, there's no way these guys could have made it up. Well, here's the thing, the four gospels were discovered in four different areas by four different authors, four completely different times, and yet they happen to match up absolutely perfectly. Now in the atheist community, they'll say, oh, there's contradictions in the Bible. Absolutely not. That's a bunch of bogus. It's just stuff they say. They have no historical backing whatsoever for it. And when it comes to the resurrection, the resurrection is a historical fact. And yet people are just attacking this thing left and right. And, you know, people are trying to say that, you know, I'm hateful for standing up for this. Well, the thing is, dude, like I said, I'm a college student. I'm just fed up with it. I think it's ridiculous. And it's amazing when one person stands up against the atheists and against, because if I didn't stand up against you and against the other atheists out of love and concern, I'd be an idiot. I'd be so hateful. You know, confrontation is not a hateful thing. Confrontation can actually be very lovely. And, you know, it's a loving thing to have confrontation with somebody. And 2018 America says, oh no, just love everybody and don't have any confrontation. But there is a place for confrontation. And when it comes to the atheist community, I'm not going to give up on trying to reach them. And there's guys that are part of my fellowship now that are former atheists that have come to Christ. And you can meet any one of them. You know, and at some point I'm going to have some of them come on my live chat. Garrett's been around a couple of them. And, you know, you can meet these people and see the same exact objections to Christ that most people, that most atheists put out there. You know, they say, oh man, I can't believe you trust a book by a bunch of sheep herders. Well, you know what? Those same sheep herders came up with the most advanced mathematics that we have today. They were some of the most brilliant people. And not only that, number two, it's historic, which tells me even more that it's reliable, that it's been around since almost the beginning of creation. And so that's my answer to your question there about the atheists. I love the atheists. I hope they get saved. All right, so it looks like we have two guys that just joined the chat. Project C.O.O.D., are you there? Yes, I am. How are you doing, Matt? Good. How about yourself? Great. Hey, I just wanted to say the documentary you guys that were involved with, with the Salvation one, I forget the exact title, was it eternally secure or something like that? It was, it was eternal or not. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Great job. Excuse me. Great job on that. I mean, there were, you know, some minor things, you know, that I don't necessarily remember them specifically, but I just remember having, you know, just a few minor disagreements, but no overall, I mean, just a great presentation of, you know, the true gospel and whatnot. Amen. So thank you for that. Yeah, no problem, brother. No problem. So we're just curious, are you, are you like new IFB? Well, that's a good question. That's kind of a deep question. Yeah. Yeah. So at the end of the day, I would say no. However, I'm very much associated with that group. The reason I say no is because I have some fundamental disagreements on some things. Like for instance, on the doctrine of the Trinity, I, just to be clear, I do believe in, you know, three persons. That's so abundantly clear from the King James Bible. But I take more of the, closer to the Roger Jimenez type of position where it's three persons who are simultaneously one person. I take that a little bit further than him, but he's certainly the person I agree with most closely on that. But there's other things like tithing or which, you know, I know there's people that defend that, but I have some issues with the way that's addressed and there's this other things. But yeah, I mean, I, there's, I mean, the new IFB movement, if you will, is how I got saved. So from Pastor Anderson's preaching. Yeah. Now you go to church at all? I do. I do. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Well, awesome, brother. It's great to meet you and get to know you a little bit and I'll definitely, I'll definitely subscribe to your channel and whatnot. We'll stay in touch. But yeah, just a fair warning. Like, I mean, I don't post a lot of content on there. Hopefully that'll change. Well, at least more regular, but I mean, you'll probably come across at some point, just some other hangouts I've done, you'll be like, whoa. Just a forewarning because before you get too far into me or whatever, so. Sure thing, brother, sure thing. All right, super. Aaron, welcome to the chat. Hey, thank you. Thank you for having me on, man. Yeah, no problem, man. It's a blessing. Just so, just so everybody knows, Aaron, if you haven't subscribed to his channel, definitely subscribe to his channel. He's got a lot of good material and he understands the true gospel of Christ and him and I have discussed things with John Singleton together in a, in a debate format. So we've kind of debated side by side almost, I guess you could say. And Aaron's definitely preaching the right gospel and, you know, faith alone. And Aaron, do you want to just tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, let me, let me talk about that. So I, I see that the true doctrine of salvation is getting attacked, like more, more than, than it used to. But the true gospel is faith alone by believing on Jesus Christ and just resting in his finished work, you know, believing that he, he saved us by when he died on the cross for our sins, was buried, rose again the third day. And if you add anything to this, if you add anything to this gospel, well, before I get there, there's a, there's a passage in Acts, I think it's 16, 31 through 33, where the guy asked, what must I do to be saved? Yeah. And, and he said, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. He never said, get baptized. He never said, believe and get baptized, never said, believe and repent of your sins, believe in, do all this stuff, you know, all it is, is believe. And that's, to me, that's one of the, to me, that's one of the most powerful statements is, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved because in that it says you shall be saved. So that Lord, Lord Jesus Christ, it states that he saved you. And just by saying, believe, you should know that you can rest knowing that you're, you're going to be saved by just believing. Amen. Yup. That's it. Amen. All right, guys. Well, I think we're going to go ahead and close out of the conversation. But if we could just go down the line in defense of the Trinity, you know, obviously if you agree with Roger Jimenez, that's awesome. I completely agree with his application of the Trinity brother. And I guess we'll just go with some closing statements and then we'll, we'll head on out for the night. So Aaron, I guess we'll start with you. All right, cool. With regards to the Trinity. All right, perfect. With the Trinity, there's a statement that Jesus, Jesus stated. He said, nobody comes to the father, but by me. So these people that go against the Trinity, they state that the father was with us, but it makes no sense because it says we have to go through Jesus Christ to get to the father. And there's another passage that says, Emmanuel, God with us. And if you compare that to the other passage that says, pray to your father, that that is in heaven. There's, there's Emmanuel, Jesus Christ, who is with us and the father, which is in heaven. And there's a past where Jesus Christ says, I go to my father, you know? So the thing is, I believe, I personally believe that if you, if you deny the Trinity, you, you don't believe that Jesus Christ was actually sent by the father. And in the book of 1st John, it states, that's the spirit of Antichrist. Amen, brother. Yeah. I mean, it's not only the spirit of Antichrist, I'd go a step further and say that most people that do that probably just aren't saved. And they probably have a misunderstood view of repentance and so forth. You know, I know a lot of people who have been and so forth. You know, I know a lot of once saved, always saved people still misunderstand the simple doctrine of repentance. They think you got to turn over and leave this crazy, but go ahead, Garrett. Well, okay. Well, just in closing, just again, Genesis 1 26, let us make man in our image. You know, that's definitely talking about the Trinity, God, the father, God, the son, and God, the Holy spirit. And to say that that was angels creating man is just the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And, you know, modalism is stupid. That's it. Awesome. Awesome. And brother project, if you want to go ahead and I'm sorry, I didn't get your name, but if you want to go ahead and just a closing statement would be awesome. Yeah. So here's where I may have some disagreement with, with how it's being said. The reality is if you believe that at the end of the day, the three persons are at the same time, only one person, then some of the implications of modalism happened to be true. When you're talking about the aspect of one person, like if there's only one person in John 17, then therefore it does conclude that Jesus is praying to himself. However, that isn't the most natural, but like John 17 is primarily a Trinitarian passage. I would say because Jesus is clearly speaking to a different person, the father, but at the same time, which is where some of you may disagree is that, you know, when he says that the father is the only true God, well, my conclusion is just trying to not, you know, pick one side or the other. And instead just be faithful to the text. We must conclude that at the same time that Jesus is not the father, we have to include that in order for him to remain the only true God, that he is indeed that person there. Again, that's, I'm sure you guys are probably talking about some stuff that may disagree with that, but I just think it's the most faithful way to approach the Bible. And, what I'm admitting is that it is a contradiction, but it's a true contradiction. You know, it doesn't make any sense for three persons to at the same time be one person, but God can do that because with God, all things are possible. So, and another thing too is, because I've even seen some, you know, debates on this and usually they're all pretty bad because they're not King James Bible believing or whatnot. So, it's like these two very strong opposing sides where one is trying to emphasize like on the modalist or Unitarian side or whatever you want to call it, all the passages about God being one are very, very clear. And in context, they definitely are talking about only one person. But then we have primarily in the New Testament, a revelation of our, a very clear emphasis on multiple persons, primarily the Father and the Son, but obviously there's a Holy Spirit is the key third member as well. And, you know, the New Testament teaches that, you know, I want to say, is it John 8 or something, where it's like Jesus bears witness and then the Father bears witness, you know, that's two men. And then in order for God's witness to be true, you have to have that two or, you know, the two or three, but then you look at passages like in Isaiah where it's like, only God can be the real God. And what I just do, and I know that's probably confusing some people, but I just accept all of it for how it naturally reads. I think there's, people sometimes get caught up too much in trying to find a solution to internal problems in the Bible. And sometimes the solutions, like if you're dealing with an atheist or something like, yeah, if it's something in the Kings or the Chronicles, yeah, there's probably a very good, easy answer. But I think when it comes to the nature of God, you know, why are we trying to understand him? Like, I mean, of course we want to understand him, but we don't, when we realize we are mortal, fallible beings that cannot have the full comprehension, we just have to rest in faith with these things and let the problems be with the Bible, you know, and not with our, you know, proposed solutions. But anyways, I'll let the next person talk. All right. Sounds good. Sounds good. Definitely. Definitely. I guess I can understand your position and, you know, I guess I don't fully agree with it, but there are some things I do agree with and that's okay. I will say it is, and I agree on the point where you said that, you know, we can't fully understand it. Yeah, definitely. You know, God is outside of time, space, and matter. I mean, he's outside of time itself. And so us as rational beings can't fully understand the Trinity. However, I accept the Trinity by faith, you know, the way the Bible teaches it. So, hey, Ryan, good to see you're here. Yeah. I showed up last minute. I just got off the road. I was traveling up north, so I just came back down. I would like to just add, I just jumped on here. I don't know how much I missed pretty much the whole topic of debate. So I'm sure that y'all pretty much covered everything. I do want to say a little bit of my, you know, testimony, whatnot. I was confused on the Trinity when I first came. I was almost ready to attack people like teaching it, like, cause I didn't see the word Trinity in the Bible. You see what I'm saying? Because I was ignorant. And I just, you know, sometimes when people are what they call babes in Christ, you don't understand certain doctrines or whatnot, but now you could clearly see the three are one. You know, you can clearly see the scriptures. You could clearly see the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. So I do want to add that, you know, we should take it easy on new believers, but if someone has all the scripture claims to, you know, know and like stand on the truth and they're reciting Bible verses and they, you know, they're claiming to be something and they're not, you know, then they need to be corrected. But that's pretty much all I want to add. Amen to that. Yeah. And I guess, yeah. Amen, brother. And one of the things we were dealing with during this, during this discussion was the fact that many people are going into modalism and I guess we're just kind of addressing modalism itself and, you know, some of the fallacies behind it and so forth. Then it looks like Joshua just joined the call. How are you doing, Josh? Doing good and you, brother Matt? Good, good. Oh, it took me a while to, it took me a while to get this thing. No problem, man. Glad you're able to join. We've lost a couple of people, but I guess we can go for a little bit longer, gained Ryan from Beyond My Vision. Folks, if you haven't subscribed to Ryan's channel, I'm going to put a link to it in the description box below. So after this thing, I'll definitely, definitely subscribe to him. He's got a lot of good material on there and I think there's a lot of live chats and just addresses a lot of the Lordship salvation things. But Josh, tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi. Well, I'm from California and to me, you know, I guess I sent you a message on that one, that one documentary that you guys did, Eternal or Not. Awesome. I had, I had some doubts about the, about salvation at the time. As soon as I saw the documentary, I was like, after the documentary, I'm like, thank you, Jesus. Because I just, because every time I look at those verses that I guess you guys put up, it makes me watch it over and over and over again. Amen. Well, that's wonderful. That's wonderful to hear. We've actually, we've actually received word from a Mormon lady that got saved after seeing it and a couple Muslims and a Catholic as well. So that's awesome, brother. Well, praise the Lord. I'm glad to hear that you're, I guess, solid on the gospel. Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And plus, I've, because to me, I'm not a Baptist, but I do believe what the gospel says, because I've always been told lies. Yeah. And, and of course, from liberal churches and all that. Right. And they always, they always told me, you got to love the homos. You got to love the LGBT, or you got to accept them because over here in California, it's super liberal. Oh my. It is religiously and politically big time. So that's why I kind of wrote in the comments saying pray for us in California. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And to me, when I first, when some, when somebody told me that you got to, oh, you got to love the homos or something like that. I'm like, I don't like, I'm stuck in the middle, but because I look at age.gov and cdc.gov, how can you love someone like that? I know. I know. It's definitely, it's actually, we got some guys in here that would probably disagree with my application, but that's okay. You know, I, I think that's totally fine. We'll probably end out this chat for now, because I know the topic was definitely the treaty. However, I agree. I agree with you on that. I think, you know, homosexuality is filthy and, and, but there is a distinction between those who are, uh, maybe sexually confused and those who are just given over to a reprobate mind, but that's a whole nother topic, but I guess we'll go ahead and close out. I would like to add something to that real quick. Um, God doesn't say to love this sin, you know, we could, we could love the sinners and try to get them to come under Jesus Christ, but we're not supposed to be sitting out here advocating murder, homosexuality, thievery, this type of stuff, you know, it's clearly not right. You know, it's clear that I obviously do it, not even nature tell you it's, it's, you know, incorrect. So, you know, we're not supposed to hate on anyone, you know, being a Christian, you know, and the main commandment is love, obviously, but you're not supposed to love sin. You know, I'm not supposed, I'm not supposed to be standing up for like, yeah, what's wrong. You know, it's actually, you should be able to convict a person like that real quick. And if they don't come to conviction very quick, it's like, well, they're not seeing the word. And also I like to add too, but by you saying they're a Baptist don't believe just because he's a Baptist, every Baptist is the same. He preaches the real gospel. Other, some Baptists don't preach the real gospel like that. And that's all I want to add on that. That's it. Sure thing, Ryan. And I agree. And it's interesting, Ryan and I were just having a conversation on his channel a couple of nights ago about this. There's a lot of Baptists that look at me as a heretic because I believe that it's easy to be saved. So, and you know, the Bible, I mean, obviously Josh and I would agree that it is easy to be saved and believe on Christ you're saved. So that's good. Exactly. Because I've read Acts chapter 16, verse 30 and 31. And when I read it, I'm like, this is easy. Believism. I'm like, this is true. And I've had, I've had these repent of your sins, people telling me, Oh no, you just got to repent of all your sins to be saved. I'm like, really? Isn't that what John three 16 and John three 36 is? Does that, does that tell you how to be saved? Like, Oh yeah, you need to repent of all your sins. Oh no, because Jesus said it. And I'm like, the Jesus says, the Jesus says, no, you're good. Easy. Believism is the people. That's hard to believe. Do you see that? Like the people that it's hard for them to believe are the only one causing accusation saying easy. Believism easy. Believe him. His ism is not a doctrine. I preach it all. I preach, believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ. And I shall be saved. I don't know where they get this. Believe on easy street or what? I don't know where easy is nowhere in the gospel. Do I say, believe on easy is believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ. And if someone doesn't like that, they don't like the word God. And that's all right. But I got to be out here and I appreciate, I appreciate Matt. You're doing things like this. Appreciate all you and God bless. Hey, God bless you too. Take care. Thanks for stopping through. All right, guys. Well, I think we're going to close out here. We got 12 years. If the people have any more questions in the chat room, feel free to ask. Other than that, I think we're going to end this thing out in about two minutes. So Joshua, tell us a little bit about yourself, man. Yes. Well, you know how I said I don't go to a Baptist church and all that because I go to Calvary Chapel? Sure. Because I've asked people, is it Pentecostal or is it Baptist? Because it seems a little bit more Baptist. And they told me, no, it's kind of like undercover type Baptist. I'm like, it's either Baptist or not. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like, if it says undercover, like what are we like secret agents or something? I'm like, no, I'm like, no, but at the same time, I believe every time I've asked, I've asked, I've had people ask me, do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people? And I'm like, I'm like, this is what I said. I said, yes, but what do I mean by that? And they say, oh, I don't know. I'm like Romans chapter two, verse 28 and 29. Yes. Yes. I'm like, where are the spiritual Jews? Where are God's chosen people? Not the physical ones. I'm like, well, yeah, we should preach the gospel to the physical Jews for them to get saved. But because they have rejected Christ, I've encountered by Zionists. They tell me, oh no, it doesn't matter if they get, it doesn't matter if they reject Jesus and all that. They're still God's chosen people. I'm like, how? That's a bunch of bogus. Yeah. I'm with you on that for sure. Amen. I'm glad you're not deceived on that whole Zionist thing, but yeah. All right guys. Well, I hate to cut it short, but we're gonna, we're gonna probably head out here, but thank you all for stopping in. Feel free to comment and like the video, share it. You know, and you know, we need to get the gospel out and folks, you know, I hope this encourages you to preach the gospel. Josh, you guys have a wonderful night. Have a wonderful night project. Have a wonderful night. Everybody in the chat room. God bless. Yeah. Did you want to talk further after the live stream here or no? Sure. I would actually like to talk a little bit further with you. Maybe in the near future. It's about midnight here. But maybe we can touch face. I'll message you on YouTube. So, Oh, okay. So you don't want to do it now? Yeah, probably not right now. It's pretty late. So I'll probably message it. So, okay. We'll touch base. So, all right guys. Have a wonderful night. All right. You too, man.