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Brother Ben why don't you go ahead and give us your Luke 14 here. I know that's something you wanted to share Yeah, I wanted to share these verses and get your guys's perspective on it both. Pastor Shelley and Pastor Mejia Because some people I think have maybe struggled with these verses They seem jarring on the onset and I'll go ahead and read it So everybody can know exactly what I'm referring to Luke chapter 14 starting at verse 25 where the Bible said and there went great multitudes with him and he turned and said unto them if any man come to me And hate not his father and mother and wife and children and brethren and sisters Yay, and his own life also. He cannot be my Disciple so people will look at these verses here specifically verse 26 and last the question will hold on a minute Is the Bible prescribing for me to actually hate my family members? Perhaps it leads to a little bit of confusion. They might not know how to actually apply this in their lives And so I just wanted to get the perspective from you Pastor Mejia and Pastor Shelley you as well What do you think about this verse? How would you apply this? Practically for someone who might be struggling to figure out exactly how they ought to be applying it Well, I have two interpretations to this and I think they're both valid One would be the fact that when he says if any man come to me and hate not his father and mother and wife Obviously, you know the Bible commands us to honor thy father and honor thy mother and that is the default setting that we should always have and in verse 26 when it says hate I What I personally interpreted it as initially when I first came across this verse is that my love for Christ and my love for the Bible Should almost seem like a hatred for everything else Which is actually something I personally experienced even from personal family members where they feel like I'm just not with them anymore I'm always in church or I'm always Serving God and they almost think like I hate them or I don't want to be around them anymore But really what it is is just that I just love the Lord. I love the Lord. I want to be in church I love preaching and so I've always interpreted this verse, you know The first application I would make is that my love for Christ should almost seem as though I'm disdaining everything else Because of the fact that I'm committed unto the Lord I'm committed unto his word and his service But I think a great secondary application to this verse would be could be applied to people Who have reprobate parents for example, you know Sometimes not all sometimes but you know, our parents mean a lot to us and it would be devastating to find out that one of our parents as a reprobator God hater and There might be a temptation there to maintain that relationship with that parent because there are our mom or our dad Whereas the Bible tells us that we should have nothing to do with the haters of God and so at that point that individual would have the choice to either choose the Lord or You know choose their father or mother and of course, we're not referring to salvation or anything like that This is referring to taking up your cross and following him being a disciple of Jesus Christ You know being a servant of the Lord We can't serve God and and rub shoulders with reprobates and haters of God And so that's why he says if any man come to me and hate not his father or mother So I think that would be a great secondary application But that's how I would interpret that verse Yeah, I agree with those interpretations I For me when I read these verses you have to you always have to balance everything in the scripture and I think Jesus actually Illustrates this verse for us in different parts in the Bible because like pastor He has said we have to honor our father and her mother You know the verses in the Bible that says no man yet ever hated his own flesh, but nervous and cherished with it So, you know when it's talking about hating here, it doesn't even say father. It says his own life also So it's very clear, you know the Bible Jesus uses really strong language such as you know We're supposed to die daily and we're supposed to crucify the flesh. And so I believe that a lot of these These Wordings are really to illustrate the fact that we're supposed to choose Christ over anything and everything and It does not matter what obstacle would come our way. We see someone coming and asking Jesus Christ about Going and burying his father Before he can go and follow him and he says let the dead bury the dead And and so kind of just almost showing a hatred in the sense that you know Not come to your own father's funeral. It's kind of extreme if you think about it I mean to tell someone not to show up for their father's funeral is really It almost seems like you would you would hate your father not to go to his funeral but Jesus is basically saying like you have this one opportunity to come and follow me and And you should be willing to choose me even above Going to your father's funeral Not really giving any kind of second thought to these type of relationships If you think about Jesus Christ preaching They came to him and said his brethren and his mother were standing without to speak with him And he didn't give them the time of day at all he's just like, you know behold are my mother and father and brethren and sisters and he's like You know they that do the will of God or these be my mother and father and brethren They which hear the Word of God and do it. So To me. It's almost just elevating this the spiritual journey your ministry above all Carnal things whether that be a physical relationship even your own life kind of dying to those relationships But I would not interpret this as like, you know hatred could kind of almost seem like you're attacking someone Obviously, I don't believe you should be attacking your family members or aggressively going after them or trying to do evil unto your family members I believe you should only do good under your family members But essentially that you would be willing to discard that relationship if it really came between serving God or not But again, I try to tell my church members and everybody that I never try to leave relationships I let them walk away You know I try to engage with my family and friends and try to have relationship with them as much as I can But at the end of the day, I'm just gonna serve Christ and if they don't want to serve Christ with me Then you know that relationship may diminish and it could appear that I hate them But like pastor me, he has said it's more that I just love And there are ultimatums at times, you know as a Christian you might hit a crossroads where somebody you're related to Makes you pick between them and going to church or them and the Bible them and the doctrines you believe and I think that's where Perhaps Luke chapter 14 verse 26 would come into play as well and you know pastor me here you brought up that it hurts a lot more when it's people you're related to and I can a hundred percent not only agree with that but relate to that because I've been in a situation where I had family members who Wanted nothing to do with me and and you know attacked me for what I believe in things like that I remember, you know even one time when pastor Shelley was driving back from the Houston area and I called him and I was like, hey, you know, I just need some advice on this Because of I'm not gonna go into great detail on what happened But it was something to do with familial persecution and he helped me out helped me get through it things like that But it makes you stronger. It grows your faith It makes you a stronger Christian And so I feel like even though it's really really hard you come out on the other side battle tested in a sense