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It's the benefits of battle coming up in one minute stay tuned you So we're to the spirit podcast Monday night 8 p.m.. Central you are right where you should be Tuned in to the show Thank you so much for watching Or listening to the sort of spirit podcast This is Ben Naim here with a special guest. We've got two people in the studio for the first time brother Marcel Lugo He used to be a member of revival Baptist Church But he's now a member of steadfast Baptist Church along with me And we've got a very interesting show tonight Well, we're gonna talk about the benefits of battle and here's what we mean what we mean by that men of God in Scripture have gone through battles and there are good things that came out of those battles You can always look on the bright side whenever you go through conflict in the Christian life or whenever you go through some sort of contention or Drama if you will whenever there's a battle that starts and ends and you look back on those battles I think that if you have a glass half full kind of attitude and a positive attitude you'll end up looking back and Extracting several different positives from that time period and so we're gonna look at what the Bible says about this We're gonna also look at some Bible stories in the first portion of the podcast tonight And just sort of analyze them with that in mind and talk about some of the positives that came out of as a result of the battles that we'll be covering from the Word of God and then We'll actually talk about Some conflict that you and I went through together in church having been going to church together for some time you know everything from the oneness debacle with Tyler Baker the Adam Fanon situation the church split that we went through and Then we'll top it off with the revival Baptist Church situation because Marcel didn't just move here for no reason right and so we're gonna find out exactly why Marcel moved to steadfast Baptist Church and Marcel Obviously you have a story to tell and you will tell your story at the end of the show So you have to stay tuned for that, but let me actually introduce the man right now Marcel Lugo brother Marcel the man himself. He's here and he's on the podcast Live and in living color. We're not doing this over Google Hangouts like we usually do you're actually in the studio How does it feel to be in the bed at the studio right now? It feels great I've always wanted to be here. I have this background back here. So I feel like I'm VIP right now Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you having me over look forward to doing this podcast with you live so now that I'm here in, Texas I mean we could probably do a lot more now. We might have to do a whole separate podcast It's me and you you know, you know, well, you never know you might M&B M&B Marcel and Ben M&B show Now you're welcome to come over whenever you want and and we could do we could do a live this one's pre-taped obviously but if you ever want to come over we could do one live you'd be more than welcome to we'll just You know Sit close to each other like we are right now it just don't do the program. Yeah right, so we could we could do the program together and It'll be Oh looks like you just got a text And it'll be lots of fun. You know, it's always fun to have discussion with you There's lots of talk about obviously here. So let's actually start off with a couple of verses About battle that I compiled here or that would pertain even loosely to this subject not even just battle just Affliction even right or some kind of conflict now the Bible says in Psalm 119 verse 71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted that I might learn thy statutes and obviously in the Christian life You're gonna have affliction you're gonna have persecution You can go through low points But the Bible says here it's good to be afflicted that I might learn thy statutes you end up Learning more about God's statutes you end up growing closer to the Lord Yeah through that kind of conflict and we'll find that out actually with the oneness Deal, which we'll talk about later. I learned a lot more about the Trinity from that Yeah, that's a good scripture right there like that. So I mean, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean definitely all sharpens up your doctrine because I'm pretty sure most of us, you know We all believed in a trinity, but we wasn't really solid on it the way we should This is how can you have guests in the studio for the first time? Yeah Yeah, but um Excuse me. Yeah, definitely all sharpens up your doctrine, you know, just gotta make sure that store too sharp So there's a point that we go through these battles So that way we can learn the statutes of the Lord and make sure that you know, we're more grounded in the truth So Bible says in 1st Timothy 6 fight the good fight of faith lay hold on eternal life were unto thou art Also called and has professed a good profession before many witnesses So we see there it says fight the good fight of faith. And that's why I like fighting, you know when it's There's wrong battles. Obviously you look at Josiah and he got involved in a battle between Babylon and Egypt that he there was no reason for him to get involved and end up dying which was unnecessary But there are good battles, too and when it's over the faith You know doctrine if somebody's gonna come in and sneak a bunch of damn double heresy into a church and and Lie about what the Bible says that's a good fight to fight That's the fight we need and you know, the Bible says fight the good fight of faith, right? So I'm down, you know, I want to be a part of a church that's willing to fight that battle stand up for what the Bible Says stand against false doctrine and do it unapologetically. Yeah, for sure I mean, I don't like these limited churches. I don't want to ever fight at all I mean, I don't think we should fight, you know, just you know for the government and stuff like that But we should definitely fight the Lord's fight, you know The Bible tells us in a Deuteronomy chapter 1 verse 30 said the Lord your God which goes before you He shall fight for you according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes So we know that the Lord he's gonna fight for us, but you know, he uses us to fight his battles It's not a single battle. We've seen the story He's in men to fight his battles to fulfill his will to do, you know to carry out his judgments. So Ecclesiastes 3 it says to everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven and then if you skip down to verse 8 a time to love and a time to hate a time of war and A time of peace. So yeah, there's a time for peace Right, but there's also a time for war. That's right. And so Hey, they're gonna be churches that are on the front lines of Christianity and They're gonna be times where those churches are going through a peaceful period and they're gonna be other times where they're going through some warfare where they're Kicking people out church disciplining people. You know what I mean? And and that's just the reality So when would you say it's a time for war? Like how would a Christian to know? You know, it's a time for war one is a time for war What do you think well when you have a guy that's trying to usurp the authority of the pastor or when he's trying to cause A church split and the pastor puts his foot down and says you're getting out of here. We don't need you here We don't want you here, you know get out if you have somebody spreading damnable heresy in the church and You know you kick them out to try and protect the flock from potentially getting confused When you have Judas Iscariot, it's trying to stop the work of the Lord from actually Happening, you know that that's a situation where it's time to go to war when you have people who are Attacking the church for its stance on the sodomites, you know, I don't think we should go to any physical war But I think at that point I would want the pastor to get up and rip some face on the sodomites and let the world know that he's not gonna back down so I think those are situations where you want to put your foot down and You want to engage in some war if you want to get dirty a little bit get your hands dirty. So you said um You know, we're not gonna physically battle how do Christians battle we battle with the Word of God At your local New Testament Church, I think also, you know Obviously in 2020 there are a lot of different ways people can express themselves through social media Getting the word out on YouTube or Facebook or Twitter With you know good doctrine prom you'll getting good doctrine over social media. But yeah, I mean, I definitely think You know, we use the but everything's gonna be based on the Bible, you know that that's why the the political fight While it's entertaining there was a debate Last night at the time of this taping pretty good debate. It was funny. It was entertaining but It's not gonna get the job done that that's not the warfare that we should be involved in. Yes, sir And you're like you said, I think the battle, you know takes place behind the pulpit in your local New Testament Church number one Yeah, and uh, you know the man of God preaching the Word of God, you know behind the pulpits and also You know proclaiming God's Word from the rooftop So that's the Internet through social media platforms to get God's Word God's truth out there to combat all this false doctrine That's out there because there's so much heresy nowadays, you know, and yeah, you know, there's so much stuff out there So there has to be someone that's gonna be able to put the truth out there, you know Yeah, exactly So yeah, there's a time for that and you know, the thing is when you when your church goes through conflict you can kind of look back when it's when the dust settles and Although there there are times where it's unpleasant like obviously you look at January 2019 I mean that was there were some stressful moments. Yeah, right But here's the good news though, we can look back at that now and we could see plenty of positives Yeah from the whole ordeal plenty of positives, which we'll talk about later And that's kind of the theme of the podcast is that you know, it's gonna happen in the Christian life You're gonna go through warfare. You're gonna go through fights and then once the dust settles you'll be able to look back and extract several positive points things that you've learned as A result of going through that situation lots of lessons that could be You know learned or that you can absorb from from going through that and and we'll go through some stories now Let me start off with one But before you do I just want to say this because you brought something to my mind Go ahead, and a lot of people think that you know You know the Christian life is not gonna be no battle, but the Christian life is a constant battlefield You know, we go through the book of Judges you see battle after battle. You see a whole Old Testament Warfare after warfare right and that's the Christian life, you know people think that when you get saved Everything's gonna be roses and daisy, but there's gonna be constant battles but the difference is you're gonna be able to have peace through those battles because you know that God is On your side and about since all that all that live godly in Christ Jesus. Excuse me Shall suffer persecution and Davis says, you know, I am for peace, but when I speak they are for war, right? So yeah, we're trying to be for peace But you know, they want war because they don't like the stance that we're taking exactly, you know And think about this too as I get some water in my beard Think about this. How about the battle that emanates from your family, right? I've talked about this a lot, but you know some people they they are a part of a Family that doesn't want anything to do with the work of the Lord maybe even hates God You know thinks that if you go to a new IFP Church that you're in a cult or a hate group or something like that and You know, it might be difficult for people who are experiencing that to fight that battle but Man, you know it it really gets you charged up spiritually though Yeah You know what? I mean because it makes you it makes you have to defend the Word of God and the things of God and That just makes you more zealous about those things when you're defending them It just goes to show you how true God's Word is because you know when you preach God's Word people just either love it Or they hate it. They're gonna hate it. Yeah, so I'm gonna love it or hate it. That's true All right. Let's get into some stories here from the Bible to kind of like illustrate our point a little bit I like this one here Othneil and Kushan Rishathayim Kushan Rishathayim, this is Judges chapter 3 This was a battle that took place Othneil the deliverer, of course Jesus Christ is our deliverer Spiritually Othneil was a carnal deliverer you could argue picturing Christ there In Judges 3 it says in verse 9 and when the children of Israel cried unto the Lord the Lord raised up a deliverer to The children of Israel who delivered them even Othneil the son of Kenaz Caleb's younger brother and the Spirit of the Lord came upon him and he judged Israel and went out to war and the Lord delivered Kushan Rishathayim King of Mesopotamia Into his hand and his hand prevailed Against Kushan Rishathayim. Here's what's interesting about this before I go to verse 11 Notice verse 10 and the Spirit of the Lord came upon him and he judged Israel and went out to war So people say oh you guys have your spirit isn't right and ye ye you know too much ye Calling out the false prophets and getting you bonding. Okay. Well, my Bible says right there that the Spirit of the Lord came upon Othneil and not only did he judge so there's one point deducted for the judge not crowd But he also went out to war. I Think there you go that that's a product of being filled with the Spirit You know The Bible says that the men of God who are filled with the Spirit who are following God's law are the ones who contend with the wicked verse 11 and The land had rest 40 years and Othneil the son of Kines died So what when you look at this fight this conflict Othneil Kushan Rishathayim What's the positive that came out of it? You want to have a glass half full attitude? Well, I mean, it's pretty obvious That he delivered the children of Israel. That's positive number one, but also What happened to verse 11 you had peace? You had peace you had peace in the land of Israel Why because of the battle that directly preceded that time of peace because you had a man? Who was filled with the Spirit of God who was willing to get his hands dirty go out to war judge Israel take care of Israel's enemy and Then you have peace following that so I think that's You know something people have to recognize again as a local church There's gonna be a time of war but here's the good news once you expel the cancer once you get rid of Kushan Rishathayim once you get rid of the infiltrator once you get rid of the false prophet once you get rid of the Judas Iscariot Whoever it is that shouldn't be part of that congregation Who's part of that congregation to try and hurt the local church and stymie the work of God once you get rid of that guy? Well, then there's a time of peace that follows. Yes, sir So this is actually pretty cool because I'm remember brother Peter James he preached about three years ago for steadfast I remember that first first opened up and he talking about I remember the name but it's all about judge and make war something like that how the spirit of the Lord comes upon you and what happens when this right does and The good connection he made was how you know when the Battle of Armageddon comes you know how you know Jesus Christ how he judges and makes war says in a Revelation 19 verse 11 I saw heaven open and is that the great white throne job? You know, sorry does that the Battle of Armageddon? And since I saw heaven open and behold the white horse and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and true and in righteousness he doth judge and make war so to see it the same exact way I have the spirit of the Lord coming upon off Neil and said that he judged and he went out to make war So we see that you know Jesus Christ says that he doth Judge and make war and his eyes were as a flame of fire and on his head were many crowns and he had a name Written that no man knew but he himself and he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood and his name is called the Word of God So when the Bible says, you know in John 1 in the beginning was the word Well, that's another name for Jesus Christ because the Bible said that his name was called the Word of God. Revelation 19 13 yep, and it says in the armies which were in heaven followed up followed him upon white horses clothed in fine linen and white and Cleanness out of his mouth go with a sharp sword that it shall smite the nations and he shall rule them with a rod of Iron so here he's gonna slay the Antichrist and then he's gonna bring a rest The same way that you know often, you know, he destroys who shamers to them and they said the land had rest So I same way that when Christ he destroys the Antichrist and his army, you know, we're gonna have rest as well So you said that it brought peace, right? Yeah. Yeah, so it's a great piece that we get to look forward to Good point. I like that Yeah, you kind of added you added to my point and made a good point yourself that's why So I brought you on here funny guy that you could make good points like that And not be a bozo like some other folks would be if I brought them on Yeah, I mean, I think that's cool. I mean, it's literally the same exact thing because it said the land had rest And we know that you know, we have a rest to come right at the Millennium reign of Christ So when he comes and fights against saying in his army, you know, we're gonna have rest at that time period as well Well, and the thing is that's why we got to work now because the Bible says in Hebrews chapter 4 it talks about Go to it if you could if you would But it talks about that if you've entered into his rest you've He that has entered into his rest has ceased from his own works For He that has entered into his rest he also had to cease from his own works as God did from his Once we get into that rest, you know, there's no more work to be done. We got to do the work now Yeah in this life fight the fights now exactly. Yeah So you had a story why don't you share your story? Yeah, I think one I think this is like probably Christianity's most famous story and I love the story. So I'm only gonna Proclaim because so many great truths that come from it but the story with David and Goliath and the reason why I love it is because there's so many Benefits that come from it such as you know You know your trust in God, you know when God delivers you from a mighty battle, you know It builds your faith in him and builds your trust in him, you know It builds your confidence for that next battle that you face in your life But it talks about um, you know first Samuel 17 house, you know Goliath he came and he defied the armors of Israel and you know David he went out, you know to battle against Goliath You know and he will see he was very brave and about you know The Bible said that he was just a lad, you know, he was a young guy and I know at the time That uh, you know Israel they had to be at least 20 years and over older and able to go to war So I believe David was probably around 15 and 19 I would say I would assume Because otherwise he would have been out there war with his brethren but the point I want to To bring out It was a David, you know when he goes to confront Saul About wanting to go and to fight Goliath him and he wanted to go fight the Lord's battles It says in our first Samuel chapter 17 verse 32 it says and David said to Saul Let no man's heart fail because of him thy servant will go and fight with this Philistine and Saul said to David Thou are not able to go against his Philistine To fight with him for thou are but a youth and he a man of war from his youth and David said unto Saul Thy servant kept his father's sheep and they came a lion and a bear and took a lamb out of the flock and I went Out after him and smote him and delivered him out of the mouth out of his mouth And when he arose against me, I called him by his beard and smote him and slew him Thy servant slew both the lion and the bear and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them Seeing he had defied the armies of the living God David said moreover the Lord that delivered me out of the paw of the lion of the lion and out of the paw of the Bear he would deliver me out of the hand of the Philistine and Saul said unto David go and the Lord be with thee So we see the confidence that David has because his previous battles that he had in his life So when David fought against the lion and against the bear and God delivered him from those battles He knew that God was gonna deliver him from every other battle and David, you know He was a man of God who's a man after God's own heart and David knew the scriptures So if you're reading from Exodus and you see how God delivers the nation of Israel out of Egypt and how God delivers You know the nation of Israel out of the hand of Sihon, you know Sihon and the king of Bashan You know, you see the whole entire Old Testament that God's always delivering his people and what happened what that does It just creates it just makes you trust in God more. Yeah, so whenever we go through battles, you know I know we're gonna be delivered because you know, we have God on our side, you know So it should make us that much more bold. I mean if you think about Goliath He's about 10 feet tall So, I mean any man in their right mind will be afraid to go fight a giant right Goliath, you know but David had the boldness and he had the confidence because he knew that the same way that the Lord delivered the Lion and the in the bear out of his hand is the same way that God was going to deliver You know that phillips you out of his hand, right and he did, you know, and the reason why like I said because The battle is the Lord so they don't in the story When they actually gonna go fight It says in a verse 43 says in the phillips II and said unto David and my dog that thou cometh to me with staffs and the Philistine cursed David by his gods and the phillips and said unto David come to me and I will give thy flesh into the father of the air and to the beasts of the field Then said David to this Philistine thou cometh to me with the sword and with the spear and with the shield But I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts the God of the armies of Israel Whom thou has defied this day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand And I will smite thee and I will take thine head from thee and I would give thee the carcasses of the hosts of the Philistines this day unto the I would give the carcasses of the hosts of the Philistine this day unto the father of the air to the wild beasts of the earth that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel, so we see how people, you know when they go to battle, you know They're trusting in their the horses and their shield and we see that this Philistine He came to David with a sword and a spear and on the shield David said look I'm coming to you in the name of the Lord. Mm-hmm. So, you know when you come in the name of the Lord This the goddesses of God before us who could be against us. Yeah, so Yeah, that's good I mean obviously those prior battles that you talked about equipped David to then feel like he had the ability to take on the Philistine there Goliath You know despite obviously the massive size difference but also just understanding that the Lord will be able to deliver him the Lord will be able To work that out for him, you know the incredible faith. Yeah incredible faith. And the thing is like Every battle in our life is all big battles. Yeah, because it's not a small you can a battle if you if you're going to war You can always die, you know, so think about it. You just think about a lion Nobody ever goes have you ever fought a lion? Let me think about that. No, never Lebanon never over there Lebanon. No, we got camels over there No, no lines over the line. What about beers? I don't think we have bears either. It looks like there's gonna be a bear popping out of these woods right here, though I'll tell you that We're in the middle of the road. There's you know, what's interesting There's never a car that comes and runs me over never any traffic never never traffic. This road is closed. Yes Yeah, it's a real road right here. All right folks. Yeah, so we're actually in the woods on a street kind of cold out here Right snow and no jacket when you get on top it. But yeah, so it's a lion and it's a bear Yeah, you know and that's that's a mate. I'm sure when David fought those the line in the bear, you know And God delivered him. He was like, you know what? I know God's gonna deliver me from every battle Yeah, and we see that when David end up becoming king and you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like Exactly, so basically what we can take from this is The major positive that came out of not just those prior conflicts, but even the fight with Goliath Strengthened his faith. Yeah strengthened his faith and that the same thing be true for us as Bible believe in Christians when we grew through Something like that. Well, we're major and we are we're major underdogs in this world And we are we're major underdogs in this world Okay, because the Goliaths out there I mean, how about you know, just every the New World Order is a lot more strong and powerful Than we are the puppet masters in control of Hollywood and you know TV the radio Those are the Goliaths today, but we can take them we could take them on with the Word of God and ultimately That apparatus will follow the word of God That apparatus will fall you know when Jesus comes back to set up his his kingdom, but anyway Let's go over this next story here. Here's another fight if you want to call it that I Think it counts as a fight. How about Paul versus bar Jesus? Right this false prophet Okay, it says I'll read this from verse 4 acts chapter 13 in Verse 4 so they being sent forth by the Holy Ghost departed unto Seleucia and from thence they sailed to Cyprus and when they were at Salamis they preached the Word of God in the synagogues of the Jews and they had also John to their minister And when they had gone through the island of Paphos, they found a man I'm sorry, they found a certain sorcerer a false prophet a Jew whose name was bar Jesus Which was with the deputy of the country Sergius Paulus a prudent man who called for Barnabas and Saul a desire to hear the Word of God But elements the sorcerer for so is the name of our interpretation withstood them seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith Then Saul who also was called Paul Filled with the Holy Ghost set his eyes on him and said Oh full of all subtlety and all mischief thou child of the devil Thou enemy of all righteousness Wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord and now behold the hand of the Lord is upon thee and thou Shout be blind not seeing the Sun for a season and immediately there fell on him a midst and a darkness and he went about Seeking some to lead him by the hand then the deputy when he saw what was done believed being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord, so here we have conflict between Paul and this false prophet and Paul rebukes him sharply, this is Hardcore right here. He calls him a child of the devil. He says he's an enemy of all Righteousness man that you want to talk about hard preaching. That is some fire Spicy preaching right there. They say that nowadays people are offended Oh, man, he would end up on the Southern Poverty Law Center hate list in five seconds after hearing this but anyway You look at this and you see this false prophet is cursed with blindness But then we get the positive in verse number 12 The deputy gets saved when he saw what was done. He believed being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord And here's the thing people are astonished today at preachers Who are willing to proclaim the doctrine of the Lord in the same way? That Paul does in Acts chapter 13, and here's what I mean by that Practically, I've heard so many testimonies that people say they got saved Because they heard of Pastor Anderson on the news They saw on the news that he you know The news had been reporting on some of the things that he's preaching or they saw him on the news In the sense that he got banned from a country because he's been banned from many different countries for actually believing the Bible Believing Leviticus 2013 that fag should be put to death And I guess there goes this podcast probably getting taken down for hate speech. But anyway People have seen like they see these news reports about him. They see his preaching. They see his hard preaching. They see him ripping face and The media highlights it Hoping to have the opposite effect. They're hoping that people will look at that and be turned off from it and Then walk away hating pastor Anderson But in fact, it's actually had the opposite effect in the sense that people will look at that and they'll be astonished at the doctor The Lord like wow, look at this guy getting up there rebuking John MacArthur and rebuking you know Ray Comfort and all these other false prophets look at him preaching hard against sin and Then they end up finding the Bible way to heaven and getting saved or listening to one saved always saved. So you know when you see a preacher of God's Word Who's engaged in? Battle with a false prophet in this case in Acts chapter 13 notice what can come from that the neutral observer Ends up getting saved and it says he's astonished at the doctrine of the Lord This is one of my favorite stories in the whole Bible. I love this story Yeah I mean this is this is definitely a great story because This happens all the time at soding and if you see what happens in the story, right? He said that he was trying to turn away the deputy from the faith Right. Yeah, we go all soul winning. That's right I forgot to mention that people are always trying to stop us from getting other people safe, right? That's exceedingly wicked Yeah, I know this fires you up. I mean you've seen You've seen me get mad. Oh, yeah, let's talk about the black Hebrews. I mean, yeah Well, you gotta talk about it from your perspective. All right, so from my perspective is, you know a couple years ago we're going so winning and I'm going so winning and All I hear is yelling and screaming. I'm like who's yelling who's screaming mind you in the projects So I come outside I see Ben down the street and it's like three black Hebrews alight and what the funniest part about it was You're not even fighting with the guys you're fighting with the lady the young teenager. I don't care who it is They were literally just to give context these black Hebrews I'm out soul winning Okay, and these black Hebrews are lights interrupt me and they try to run me out of the apartment complex and Start blaspheming Jesus Christ, you know how the black You know blaspheme God so they're they're blaspheming the Lord Jesus Christ they're blaspheming the Bible They're trying to prevent me from from soul winning. They literally actually turned somebody away from talking to me So Yeah, I kind of flew off the handle cuz cuz that pisses me off and I'm I'm cool calm and collected out sowning But only when somebody tries to interrupt or stop me from preaching the gospel Am I at the highest risk of losing my cool if you want to see Ben's top pop right off try to interrupt endurance So anyway, we walk around a corner and you see me so I See you say, you know you child of the devil use rapper me you piece of filth So I'm like what is going on Yeah, I go running over there and just find out you know These black Hebrews are the lights and they're pretty much just her I wouldn't get the harassing they come with the false doctrine trying to show that you know They're the true people of God and you know, we just go and just debunk that real quick But that's why it's important when the Bible says, you know started to show that someone proved unto God Because you know at any given time there could be a warfare There could be a battle and you don't know what the doctrine is and the Bible says and you know Paul he admonishes Timothy He said of these things put them in remembrance Charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit but to the subverting of the hearers So there could be a time in a situation Where you know, you're talking to a heretic and the Bible says after the first and second ammunition reject But if there's an audience or there's people that's there and they're listening now It's time to contend for the faith time to contend because now they stump you That might not that that person that's listening might not get saved Because you know, you know, you don't know the Bible, right? No, you're not prepared unto subable You know about says the horses appeared against the day of battle the safety of the Lord So you have to be prepared to be prepared You know Bible says, um Be ready to give an answer to every man to ask of the reason of the hope that is in you So we have to be prepared when we got sown because we never know if somebody gonna come and try to You know stop someone from getting saved the media and we have to be able to combat that. Yeah, so we've seen that Yeah, well remember the not only black kibir Israelites, but this also happened in Jacksonville I guess there's something with Jacksonville and just like people trying to stop you from so many But how about how about this one the Jehovah's Witnesses? Remember you were preaching the gospel to this lady and these Jehovah's Witnesses walk onto the property and try to hand her And so you start rebuking them and then I join in This is another was she like an old lady Still though they tried to stop you from preaching gospel and this is something if you're a soul winner If you're a soul winner, you will deal with this eventually. It's not it's not gonna happen every week It's very rare. Yeah, but It will happen where somebody will try to prevent you from in the gospel and to me that is so evil So evil, I have no patience for it. Yeah, and so with that story there, you know Because so when you find what the black people really like we didn't really stay that alone because there was really nobody to subvert But that day we was actually given the gospel telly at the doorstep. She got say which we got her say Yeah, so they came so we're literally preaching the gospel and they come right to us while we're at the door Trying to give that track not that time is warfare. Yeah now it's time to fight at that point I was like wait, hold up, you know, do you believe that Jesus is God? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah No, so that's something we just saw to hammer them right there at the door start quoting scripture Colossians chapter number one So that lady at the door she went wow, I didn't only believe all that Yeah, you know so, you know, which one did house attack the attack the weakest doctrine I remember in again in Jacksonville because I don't know what it is about that city But I was just going walk into my car to buy Go to the go to the grocery store go to Publix as I'm walking my car I noticed that Mormons are talking to my neighbor. So I go I I'm like do I want to get involved? I'll just let it go. So I go to the grocery store. I come back. They're still talking to her So I realized okay, this is serious. She might be buying what they're selling. Hmm. So after the Mormons leave I Knock on that door and I say hey I noticed these Mormons were at your door for like a good 30 45 minutes and I'm just curious. What did they say to you? And then she told me what she said This was a black woman and I said well Let me see that Book of Mormon because they gave her a Book of Mormon I say here Let me show you something the Book of Mormon and I showed her where it talked about How if you have a lot if you're a sinner or if you sin exceedingly that you'll have darker skin Unless you repent of your sins that you'll have darker skin So I showed her that in the book of moron Mormon, sorry, excuse me moron and then and then she was she was just flabbergasted Well, I didn't believe and then I told her all the weird things they believe about being God of your own planet things like that Then I said look I have a King James Bible with me. It's actually the Word of God not that stupidity that Joseph Smith Thought up because a demon possessed him or something like that Let me actually show you what the Word of God says and I got her saved so even when the enemy tries to Sow seeds of Satan in people right just like what we saw here with bar Jesus Although that what that Mormon story isn't necessarily a hundred percent equivalent to acts 13, but still well you see that Exactly Exactly just just to sure so yeah, I mean she ends up getting saved But yeah people who will try and start fights with us When we're out preaching the gospel, I mean don't do it. It's just really that simple don't do it But even if they do Marcel, I think God can work it out for good like we saw in acts 13 Yeah, you gotta be ready for that What I say that warfare right there, but what's just cool is that you see that um, you know Paul had that same spirit Where you know he rebuked bar Jesus sharply, you know and reminds me of a couple stories So we see in um Galatians to have a Galatians 1 Is it you preach any other gospel? And even that would you have preached? That's why when they came we just let them be a curse, you know, yeah intent But I'm it says right here when Paul went up to Jerusalem to get report of his uh, you know If his journey says and that because of false brethren on the wares Brought in who came in privily to spy our Liberty which we have in Christ that they might bring in that they might bring us Into bondage to whom we gave place by subjection No, not for an hour that the truth of the gospel might continue with you So when somebody's coming in bringing damnable heresy, you know, we can't give them place, you know We can't we can't give them no place at all No, that's not something that we should tolerate or sit around and just let you know coming to the church Not something that we need to contend right away and on it and this one too, right? You know that one It's pretty much the same exact thing Yeah And it says a certain man which came down from Judea taught the brethren and said except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses You cannot be saved So someone is adding works or to adding anything up to salvation Then it's no longer by grace time to take the gloves off then now now time. Yeah now time to fire now We're gonna fight now. You know what don't come in. You don't take another step Yeah, you know I got the spiritual sword ready to you know to take the dirt out slay you're gonna slay a gag exactly Which Saul failed to do but right here says it's a we're for it says when therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small Dissension and disputation with them. So the Bible said that it had no small disputation I mean this was a major problem and you know If anybody's ever coming into church Then you need to get circumcised to be saved or you need to get baptized problem Or they're trying to spread this, you know, there's doctrine on the church, you know, this is a battle This is a fight that needs to be dealt with Immediately, what do women do if circumcision saves I guess they're just yeah All right, well we have spent a lot of time looking at the Bible Which is great, obviously, but now let's make some well, actually I think there was once didn't you want it? Was there one more story that you know? We're good. All right. So let's actually make a Practical application here in a sense and we talked about several battles, you know We went over a kush and resh at them and off Neil the positive that came out of that piece We talked about Paul versus bar Jesus the positive that came out of that conflict. Well, the deputy got saved. Yeah, we talked about David and Goliath the positive that came out of that well increased faith in the Lord for future battles and So You know There's always something that you could take that is a positive from these Conflicts and there's so many other examples that we could look at in the Word of God but for sake of time, we're gonna move on to the second phase phase two of this podcast and Folks, we're gonna do it Right after this commercial break. That's right. I'm gonna keep you hanging after the break. Here's what we're gonna do Marcel We are going to look at battles That you and I have gone through together Going to church together and we're gonna extract positives from them Just like we did with the battles that we read about in the Word of God Excited do it. All right, it's coming up after the break. Stay tuned. Don't go anywhere if you're in the chat room Stay in the chat We back You Hey everybody, it's pastor Jonathan Shelley from steadfast Baptist Church Just want to let you know about a soul winning marathon that's gonna be happening on October 31st in Wichita Falls really excited to go up to Wichita Falls We're gonna have a lot of people participate from our church here in the Dow fourth area as well as those in Oklahoma City and Pure words Baptist Church people are gonna be coming up there and we're gonna have a soul winning marathon all day up there And we're gonna be meeting at Weeks Park in the morning. It's about 9 a.m We'll be meeting there having some breakfast getting organized We'll go out from about 10 to noon and then we're gonna meet back at Weeks Park for lunch And we'll have a lunch out there then around 1 30. We're gonna head out for more soul winning. So about 4 o'clock and So we're really excited to be there and go out and preach the gospel and then to follow up We're gonna be going back to the Dow fourth area and those local in the city But we're gonna have our chili cook-off that evening and we're gonna be hanging out We're gonna try and live stream the Maslow conference from Safer We're Baptist Church really excited to be able to watch that and here's some really good preachings We're gonna have a great time of fellowship and fun and eating chili And even if you can only participate in just the soul winning or even just a fellowship event or a chili cook-off that evening We'd love to invite you. I'll put the description for all the events and the addresses below But we'd love for you to participate and to hang out with us and have a good alternative to not worshiping the devil on October 31st, and so please join us if you need any information You can always call or email our church and we'd love to get that to you. God bless and have a great day How weird do you want to get with that and that's just one example folks and look it's not just fundamentalists that are radicalizing it's not just Christians the left is radicalizing to the atheists are radicalizing the LGBT freaks are radicalizing Antifa's radicalizing black lives matter is radical everybody's radicalizing and it's a result of everything going online where you can just seek out people all over the world who believe in your Radical views and you can just get more radical and more and then just becomes a contest who can become the most radical You Know like well, you know, it's it's sort of like Jihoo, you know, well, you know, hey, he served bail a little bit I'm gonna serve bail a lot You know, it just becomes like hey, my little finger is gonna be thicker than Pastor Anderson's loins You know, it just becomes this big Pissing match of just who can get the wildest and most radical folks It's not gonna work when you actually take it out there to real people in the real world Not just your little niche group total isolation leads to total Radicalization and you know, I've noticed people who don't go to church. They keep getting more radical I've known people personally they quit going to church and they just get more radical more radical Church even even physically going to church has a moderating effect on you because when you start saying something too wild people are gonna be like Whoa, they're tiger and they're gonna rein you in I'm sure you're probably thinking of things right now where you got a little radical and somebody kind of rained you in Or where you saw someone else get a little too radical and it's like whoa, buddy You're going a little too far because you know what some new Christians they can hear something that I preach and just run with it just go too far with it go too crazy with it go overboard with it and Then they're gonna find some bozos online to be like, yeah. Yeah, go go go go go, you know Whereas the normal church would be like, whoa, you misunderstood that's too much and the next thing you know They're like, well pastor Anderson, you know, he's he's too soft You know cuz they because I'm not gonna follow them down that path I'm not gonna I'm I'm not gonna leave the ground in the spaceship that they want me to board and Just go off into this out of this world kind of doctor We're back on the podcast this is the sword of the spirit here And My special guest brother Marcel in studio guest the very first in studio guest in the history Of the podcast. It's been fun. What do you think so far? Nope no gift. No, I am way too cheap to buy you a gift just for sitting on your rear end and talking So yeah, that's not gonna happen. Okay. I Don't know why you even ask I thought since I was the first one in live studio I know you can get a gold star if you want next time I see you I'll go to the dollar store and you know buy some stickers and give me one if you want that might work. All right Well, let's make practical application. Like I said before the break and the first Conflict battle whatever you want to call it that you and I went through together in church It was the oneness fight, you know that lasted a couple years actually And it was at steadfast Jacksonville steadfast Jacksonville versus valiant for those of you don't know basically Tyler Baker He was ordained as the deacon of faithful word Baptist Church and originally was gonna be sent out to start Independent Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, which I don't know if you were waiting for it I had already been living in Jacksonville prior to that church coming to town So I was waiting for it to come to me and I was excited and I was going to an old IFP church at the time and Then obviously, you know, he got fired Pastor Anderson puts out a video and the reason he got fired is well There's multiple reasons, but the main one is that he turned out to be a heretic who denies the Trinity He believes in oneness oneness Denies that God is three distinct persons Father Son Holy Ghost But rather that he's just one person who manifests himself in three different ways and everyone knows about the doctrine And I've put on a lot of content About why oneness is wrong and defending the Trinity. There's tons of preaching on it So we're not gonna get too much into the weeds on the actual doctrine itself I mean if you believe in oneness, you're not saved. So what I would do is just turn this dream off right now and You know get that right and then go watch my would have in video so You know that we're not gonna get into that, but the actual Here's what here's what happened. Okay. This is how it this is how it affected steadfast Jax is You had people who were going to move to Jacksonville specifically for that church make the move and then Baker Gets fired which is just horrible timing for those people who had moved right there They just got here. You know, I could think of one right at the top my head I'm sure he won't mind me using his name, but you know brother Joe Jersey Joe people call him that Jax Joe Jax Joe He would've been actually a good Good to get him on actually for this. But if I called him right now, I don't know if he would be happy with me 956 p.m. In journey in Florida right now, so I'm not gonna do that, but You know He had actually moved to Florida in anticipation of that church starting valiant Baker gets fired all of a sudden That plan appears to be out the window, but then in comes disgraced ex-pastor Donnie Romero We know he's a disgraced ex-pastor now at the time. We didn't know that so He decides to ordain Adam Fannin as an evangelist and bring him out here to save bring him out to Jacksonville not here This is Texas, but bring him out to Jacksonville to try and save the day So the thing is when the Jacksonville Church started steadfast Jax under the leadership of Romero and Fannin That didn't end the oneness deal it did not end the oneness fight because There were still people in church who wouldn't let go of Tyler Baker, yeah, I mean they just they wanted they Thought that there was merit to what he was teaching They didn't see the big deal about oneness. They didn't think it affected salvation They even some of them and I'll just name the names Doug ropal the guy who denies the eternal security of G eternal security The guy who denies the eternal sonship of Jesus Christ if he's watching this you're a heretic you're a loser, okay He not only does he believe in a Victor taste style oneness doctrine But he even bought into the lie that pastor Anderson used to teach oneness, which is what Tyler Baker and his cronies had been perpetuating over and over again on YouTube So we had these oneness sympathizers infecting the church and ended nothing about it, which now that we Know what we know about Fannin that Makes sense. Yeah Telling him because we went sold him with dog. It was me him and the Getty and Doug was saying, um, you know if I could Donnie he wanted us to Pretty much right any doc we like all that it was like a leadership class and pretty much anything that we believe differently than him He wanted to know what it was He put something about the Trinity. So no, he didn't Oh Doug So Doug didn't come to class and he said, you know, I didn't write down what I believe because if I did I probably kicked out Wow, what in the world I mean that's an issue. Yeah, right What if I walked up to you I said hey, you know I would have liked to I would like to been honest about what I believe about the Trinity The Trinity Essential doctrine here. Sorry. I Said hey, I would have liked to been honest with you about what I believe about the Trinity But if I was honest with you, I would have gotten kicked out of church. What would you think? I Probably believe in the wrong Yeah, so that's what I saw. What do you believe so he was like I would not talk about it So of course, you know what to talk about a coward is afraid he would get kicked out of church Well, she wouldn't but he ended up talking about it Yeah, so he hasn't talking about it and he basically said that he believes that people who believe oneness could be saved and he Will believe the Trinity could be saved which you know, we were disputing and talking about it So we got the churches. Hey, we can't talk about it no more because you know, unless you want me to get kicked out We can't talk about it. Yeah coward. So I went out of fan and I was like, hey look me and then Getty We both heard him say this cuz I wouldn't have went, you know, you know, I probably you know what I told her Hey, this is going on. But You know in the mouth of two or three witnesses lab where we established out like hey look me and they get he heard him Say this so, you know, we want to talk to him, you know, well, you know, I'll test to it So he never did. Yeah, you know, he doesn't he never cares. So But the thing with these false prophets is what they want to do is they want to muddy the waters You know when the Bible gives a clear statement give clear teachings on doctrine They want to just make it confusing the Bible says that God not the author of confusion, right? So the Bible clear, you know, I was says for that three that we reckon having the Father the Word and Holy Ghost and these Three are one, you know, the Bible talks about how Jesus Christ, you know, he's the image of his person But what they want to do is they want to say parts But the Bible never uses parts To describe the chin and they'll say oh, well the Bible doesn't use person Hebrews chapter number one express image of his person and the thing is if if Jesus is the express image of God the Father's person then it's not out of the realm of reason to then conclude that Jesus Christ is the second person if God the Father is a Person then Jesus Christ would be the second person of the Trinity and that the Holy Ghost would be also a person therefore substantiating the doctrine that says that the Trinity is three distinct persons one essence I Mean my parts. No the parts. They weren't part. What is it? What so Jesus is is 33% God Yeah, or is he 100% God like that's my arm. This is a part. This is a part one body It's not one body is three persons one God Right, so that doctrines wrong. But anyway, you had guys like him and there's another guy, too there's so many guys at that church that You know, they had an issue with the Trinity doctrine they had an issue with Oneness they thought again oneness wasn't that big of a deal and it caused conflict in the church Yeah, and so there were clicks clicks formed where you had one click. That was Orthodox Trinity relieved the traditional version of the Trinity was totally on board with Pastor Anderson against Tyler Baker And then you had another click that was on the fence or Very sympathetic to Tyler Baker as well Not necessarily a hundred percent embracing oneness But certainly sympathetic towards it not understanding the big deal and then there was another click. That was just straight You know, we believe pretty much the same thing that Tyler Baker does. I mean there was not much of a difference and They you know, they didn't see a problem with it at all They would fellowship they would if they could get away with it fellowship with valiant Baptist Church folks I had a guy bring I didn't even know that. Yeah, so there that just shows what a spineless coward weasel He is and was back then and then you know They would come up to you with something that Elliot Ray said in a video and go. Oh, man You know, I don't know how to answer this look at this point He made about how there's one throne and how do you explain this? So there's one guy who got it, right? Okay, and I won't use his name because I'm not I really I'm not sure I don't think he's completely wicked of a person So I'm not gonna just call him out and blast him, but he did get it, right And so you had that success story, but there were a lot of people in that church And you know what I think some of them were infiltrators who were trying to sneak oneness in and they succeeded in many ways Yeah Yeah, it was for a seat it was for a season but then obviously pastor Shelley came in and cleaned house But anyway, here's my point this oneness deal. It didn't end in 2017 It continued all throughout 2018 because then Tyler Baker after he was fired from faithful word He then announces that he's gonna start a church in Jacksonville. Pastor Anderson came to preach for us. I believe it was in 2018 Yeah, it was remember when we had that that Trinity Events Center or whatever Like 250 people showed up Listen to a preach and he preached a sermon against oneness which was excellent and So the battle was on right and it continued to rage and I think the number one positive I can take From Tyler Baker debacle and the whole modalist thing is that I learned so much About the doctrine of the Trinity It's insane all the preaching we got on the Trinity all the study time that we did on the Trinity And then all the fellowship that we did on the Trinity talking about the Trinity looking at pictures of the Trinity in the Old Testament Looking at clear verses in the New Testament looking at all these different scriptures to try and defend our position on the Trinity Man, it was it was really good And I can tell you that because of this fight that we had over the doctrine of the Trinity That it's really been I learned a lot more about the eternal sonship of Christ I learned a lot more about you know Even the deity of Christ and so many different things that perhaps I wouldn't have studied You know if we didn't have to defend and fight for the good fight of faith fight the good fight of faith in this regard That's the biggest positive I could take out of that fight with Tyler Baker over the Trinity Yeah I think everybody pretty much had the same positive from that situation because we've all learned the Trinity Majorly, and we also all learned You know how important the doctrine was because it's something that we really didn't pay much attention to even though We all believed the Trinity, you know first down five seven Yeah, but once we started realizing that that should that the Trinity was under attack We started realizing how much the Trinity was all over the Bible all everywhere. You see it everywhere So yeah, you know the Bible, you know, God does lead people for us so that we could learn a war says in our judges through it says You know when the nation of Israel after Joshua died and it was in a promised land It's an idea now these are the nations which the Lord left to prove Israel by them even as many of Israel has had not known all the wars of Canaan So, you know there was a generation that did not know all the wars that the previous generation had went through and it says Only that the generation of the children of Israel might know to teach the war at the least such as before knew nothing there So there was a generation that arose that knew nothing of the battles and the fights that the last generation went through So the Lord left, you know certain pockets of people so that way they could learn to war they can learn to fight Right. So even with us each generation even with our kids, you know There's gonna be fights for them because they might not know the battles that we went through That's good our grandkids or our great-grandkids, you know So God's gonna leave people are gonna attack the Trinity people gonna attack, you know, the Godhead or whatever And God's gonna leave them so that way he could so they could learn war just like we learn how to war Because of you know, the you know, the Tyler baking situation. Yeah. Well, we can tell our children now Hey, the Trinity is an important doctrine here's what to look out for if you're trying to figure out if somebody's really oneness or some sort of oneness infiltrator and It's it was crazy because this this war with oneness It was not just with Tyler Baker, but then you had Garrett Kirschway Get exposed you had Dominique Davis get exposed Garrett Kirschway was a a member of Faithful Word Baptist Church Pastored by Steven Anderson Dominique Davis was a member of Faithful Word Baptist Church pastored by Steven Anderson and you know You had these guys. I would have never thought that they would be exposed as heretics or as you know infiltrators in any way but they work and Then you also had even in our church a guy actually a family defect From steadfast Jax to go to valiant the guy was a flat earther and a complete bozo But he defected and went over the went over to valiant He ends up moving away from that church after like a year or whatever. I don't even know how long but You had these people just coming out of the woodworks. Yeah of Being closet oneness people it was incredible I mean that war was but you know what I liked about that fight. It was over doctrine and And in the process and I already made this point but in the process We learned so much. Oh, yeah about the Trinity. I'm super thankful at that time, you know I was super weak on the Trinity, you know I just knew the within the was you know John was in the beginning with the word and the world was with God and Where was God? Yeah, and you know when he gave his you know his video that he made I'll let why is he not saying with like he keeps saying was God was God He's trying to just prove that Jesus is God and he also the father but it says clearly that the word was with God So, you know if I call my wife and say hey, I'm with Ben right now But I'm really not with you, you know, I'm gonna look like a liar, you know You know, I'm looking same. Yeah, so the Bible saying that you know, the world was with God, you know What you know in the beginning? What does that mean? That means he was really by himself in the beginning No, he was really with his father You know the Bible said the father sent the son into the world not to condemn the world So before the world was the father sent him into the world. Well, this is why Baker would keep repeating I believe in the literal word the literal word. So sound waves I mean, how does that even make any that's why the Bible says his name is called the Word of God Word of God Exactly name revelation 1913 compare spiritual with spirits. The name is called the Word of God Yeah, well, they'll twist John chapter 1 to try and make it appear as if Jesus is the father bunch of idiots Yeah, anyway, we don't we don't want to go down that rabbit trail because we could do a whole podcast debunking one The scriptures but I think that pretty much caps it off I mean is there anyone says anything else you want to add? Cuz what else can you say? We learned more about the Trinity dealing with all these infiltrators all these people coming in that you know We're just uncloaked themselves as oneness that you never expected another thing I'll say and the sympathizers we had to deal with in our church, too Yeah Which that frankly that pissed me off that it was never dealt with that really angered me that it was never dealt with and it wasn't fun to go to church and You Know every Wednesday night and every Sunday and not know who I could talk to about the Trinity. That's a major doctrine Because no we weren't on the same page as a church and not a lot of people knew this because it was it wasn't Broadcasted, you know, no one really knew this but it was going on. It was a hardcore issue at steadfast Jacksonville under the leadership of Romero and Under the leadership of Fannin where it got to the point I literally I didn't know who I could talk to you about the Trinity There was only a couple of guys you being one of them Not a couple there was more than just a couple but there were there was a group of guys that I knew that they believed It right But everyone else, you know I was afraid that if I brought up some doctrine and tried to debunk Tyler Baker in some way that then we would start fighting Because they're not on the same page with me So I guess this we cannot transition from here to the next subject but I said what I want to say with this says for There must also for there must be also heresies among you that they which are approved May be made manifest among you so the Bible says it's important to have Heresy, so that way you can know who the truth is and who's the phonies and with the situation right here It definitely showed you that pastor Anderson was the truth, you know how he just demolished him You know debunking the Trinity doctrine, right and debunking the oneness. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah debunking the one of doctors. He didn't So even like today You know, we have a we there's still gonna be heresies among you and just like with Adam Fannin Right. So people they're always wondering like, you know, why is pastor Shelley always talking about, you know, I have a fan it Well, what is doing number one is showing that showing who is approved among you and who is the heretic, you know We see that everything out of fantasy is just a lie You know if you could just watch, you know If you can even endure it his judges 11 is horrifying terrible trying to teach that it's okay To break a vow if it's not that's what he taught in judges chapter 11 He taught that it would be okay for you to break a vow if it wasn't a good vow So I guess Saul was actually right To slay the Gibeonites Because that wasn't a good vow that Joshua made So if you want to use fanon logic, then Saul was in the right He you know He was humble enough as fanon said that Jetha should have been humble enough not to follow through with his vow Saul I guess was humble enough to break that bow What if you marry somebody that you regret does that mean you could you not have the moral high ground to divorce that person? Yeah, exactly. And so we could see the heresy like, you know, he's teaching that you could break a vow When the we're nowhere in the Bible says they should break a vow, you know, so That's why it's great that you know pastor Shelley He keeps you know Just kicking the dog wise down because you remember the story with Joab I mean Jeroboam and he goes to Elisha and You know Elisha has fallen sick and Elisha tells him to take the arrows and smite the ground Well, he only smoked the ground three times. Mmm, but Elisha says this is right here. He said, um, And he said unto the king put thy hand upon the bow and he said and he put his hand upon it and I shall Put his hand upon the king and he said open the wound eastward and he told him to go smite So he takes the arrows and he smites thrice He said that the man of God was wroth with him and said thou shouldest have smitten five or six times Then has thou smitten cereal till I has consumed it. Whereas now thou shall smite cereal but thrice So, you know whenever you're in a battle, you need to keep smiting that arrow so that way you consume You know the opposition you can assume consume the opponent, you know, you can kill them I like the way you apply that so, you know pastor Shelly is great that he's gonna keep you know Smiting that arrow keeps smiting and smiting and smiting until he's consumed, you know Because it just bizarre how people can still side with Anna fan or think he's a good guy or anything. He's a brother Because just look at all the false doctrine that he has out there, you know And if you if you think what he's teaching is right There's something wrong with your spirit cuz I would say he that I've got here God's Word Right. So you therefore hit him not because you're not a gossipy if you think that that was God's Word then There's something wrong with us I mean the idea that you read you read judges chapter 11 and to come out of that chapter thinking that It's okay to break a vow. I don't even know that is so bad and there's a lot of other things too, but Just the stuff that he teaches about elders that it always means older person It's nonsense. He teaches a bunch of nonsense at that fake church But let's transition then because we talked about Baker oneness again I think we both agreed major positive from that we learned about the Trinity doctrine a lot more and defending it but with Fannin that's another thing that you and I went through together and Man, you know we we were a part of a private meeting that took place at steadfast Jacksonville, and I think that It will you know, the the one word that we could use to describe it would be chaotic Yeah, and two of the three men Who refused to stand with Fannin that night are on the stream right now. The other one is brother Joe Sorry brother Owen didn't he leave before remember when he told everybody hey come to my side of the pulpit if you support me Owen was still there. No Graham left Dustin laughs Almost oh, he wasn't sitting with us. We was on the left side. He was okay. So Owen was there too. Yeah So I forgot Owen my bad. No one if you're watching this, which I don't he probably I don't think he is You think he's watching or well, he's not watching right now Yeah Today when you're watching this. Yeah. All right. So yeah, I guess then it would be 50% of the guys that didn't that didn't go and and It's interesting because You know The thing the thing about the thing about Owen the thing about Joe and and you And other you know, there were people who left by the way folks Okay, so the people there were many others who didn't agree with Fannin and what he was doing at that meeting but they had just left prior to a Specific time during that meeting where Fannin said hey if you side with me come stand behind Come stand with me behind the pulpit and you know, a lot of people left by that point But here's what I'm trying to say. That was chaos that was people yelling at each other's if you thought that the presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden was chaotic and that they were talking over each other and nothing was getting done That was child's play that was Two guys who were best friends best buddies compared to how this this meeting went With Fannin, so this was the story with Fannin, you know, he turned out to be a self-willed Adonijah Absalom Sheba the son of Bikrai type infiltrator Who had come in specifically, you know, he exploited rather he exploited Romero being exposed to try and exalt himself and You know pastor Shelley basically said I'm not working with this guy and if I take over the church Which obviously he ended up doing Fannin would be fired and he would no longer be in charge of Jacksonville, but that was a situation Marcel where you and I we were under the leadership How long we were under the leash of a fan in two years a year and a half? what was it about a year about a year and a half and All of a sudden he's exposed right as this horrible person and you know again, I don't want to get into the sort of the Big-time details of it more. So what we learned because there's a lot of content about this I did so many live streams at that time January 2019. Yeah, but I mean as far as what I learned I think for me you know what I learned is just Sometimes you give people the benefit of the doubt too much and I remember when we sat down as a church in Jacksonville shortly after all this the dust settled and we said look When people are flat Earthers when people are oneness like what I just finished talking about earlier in the stream that there were a lot When people have all these problems and we're just being Overly gracious and just giving them the benefit of that way too much it ends up causing clicks it ends up causing disunity and We saw a church split in Jacksonville fanning split the church. He went and started his own cult so, you know we We really were a little bit too lenient as a church and I think that's one thing I remember of learning more cell is you know what when people have shown themselves to be a bunch of weirdos and bozos that we Needed we need to step up and at least let it be known I know you did with Doug but there was there were more people that were issues other than Doug that were never It was never addressed and I think that was the major one of the major lessons. I learned is hey, let's Make sure we do something about problems in the church Yeah Definitely I mean like like you said because we were so lenient and it was still new for us I mean, that's when we really first started going, you know following the big time on the new IP as well Yeah, so that's how we learned warfare, you know, we got that experience So, you know I'm glad I went through all that stuff that I went through and I'm grateful because a lot if I never did I wouldn't be You know, I wouldn't be as sharp today to be able to identify You know false prophets or red flags or thing that's or things that are out of the ordinary, you know So now I know what to look for, you know So if I never went through I wouldn't know what to look for. I didn't know how to handle those situations But thank God, you know we did because now You know we could be able to you know, serve the Lord that much better in the you know The church that right now I learned a lot about what it means to be self-willed because of the fanning conflict I learned a lot more and you look at stories Numbers chapter 16 with Korah's rebellion. For example fits perfectly You look at Abimelech in Judges chapter 9 fits perfectly well, yeah, I mean battles just exposes people's true colors Yeah, you know so when that whole battle happened without a fan in the path of Shelley Although at first, you know, we didn't really know what was going on, you know All it did was exposed Adam finished true colors. Yeah number one Just in the meeting when the meeting was in chaos. It showed no leadership You know, he should be he should have been able to have the entire, you know meeting under control and you know A little bit more organized and not ever have everybody yelling but just showed he wasn't you know He wasn't showed that he was selfish. He had no leadership skills, you know, he wasn't a leader because people wasn't following him. So You know, it definitely just exposed who he was and not only him it exposed a lot of other members that was in the church as well Yeah, well exposed, you know, I thought and I'll put we mentioned brother Joe a few times I want to put brother Joe over here and say man this guy he showed excellent leadership in that meeting up to Adam Fannin at that meeting and He let him have it You know what? He did a way better job than I did because I was still not even sure what was going on at that meeting You know, I didn't know what Fannin was. I was not ready to call him False brethren or infiltrate anything like that at that time I still had hope that maybe he was just losing his mind because of the Romero thing So yeah, I just wanted to say that I thought brother Joe. Yeah, really good. I mean very good leadership skills there Yeah, I mean he was just trying to figure out like, you know, what what happened? Why why are we in this position? Yeah, and he stood up to him but um But I was able to identify because of that now I'm able to identify what it means to be self-willed and to make all those applications with those characters I referenced, you know in the Bible So that to me that was another big lesson to identify. Hey, this is what it means to be, you know Someone who's just only in it for themselves. Yeah in the ministry for the wrong reasons Exactly. So a big thing I learned from it as well Was um, he was playing a victim, you know, so when people try to play the victim all the time But hey, they don't like me. Everybody's against me You know mentality this boo-hoo mentality is like actually there's something wrong because it's something he's trying to cover up He let all you know pastor Anderson past Shelley. They're all against me They don't like me and then he started talking about how I never used this card ever Well, I use it one time to get the $3 credit card. Yes Starts waving around his debit card at the at the meeting. I never misused this Nobody had accused him of my car, you know, so he was playing the victim mentality weird Yeah, you should just you should embrace battles because you're gonna learn a lot from me You're gonna build trust in God. You're gonna build your confidence in God You're gonna know God's gonna deliver you from all your battles, you know Unlike a so who didn't put his trust in God and because of that he was diseased in his foot Although he knew how God delivered him from his previous battle, you know, so we could just always, you know Keep building our faith in God And then how about when we made that video at the park to it was like an SOS message to Pastor Shelley to let him Know hey There are still people here who support you that that meeting at the park was specifically designed for Pastor Shelley supporters To let him know there's still people here who supports you so you can you can do it You could start a church or I'm sorry You can continue the church plant here in Jacksonville because you have enough families that want to go to it and want to support you and want Serve under your leadership and serve the Lord Jesus Christ under your leadership And I thought that was a major success in that we were able to let him know Hey, look, you could still keep this church going Look at all these families who are on your side and really on the Lord's side Yeah, and what was cool about it is like a lot of times, you know men of God have to go through major battles So really like solidify their status to solidify them and you think of Solomon, you know when he first became king and you know What really solidified him when he had to make that judgment to split the baby, you know And that's what everybody realized. You know what this guy right here. He's the man to follow Exactly, and you know, we've seen with Pastor Shelley had a major battle at the beginning But it really just solidified him because he took a very strong stance, you know on the Word of God because you know If he didn't really care about the Word of God He would just ordain anaphane in the six months like he wanted to get him though He'd have you know, multiple children in subjection with all gravity, you know But so it went to his show that you know He believed every word that the Bible teaches and he takes him seriously And he didn't just kind of just give in to what he wanted Although he was you know in leadership for so long, but you know what he went against, you know You know what what the world might want and when he followed what the Bible said like no listen, you don't have multiple children So you're not gonna be a pastor in six months, you know, so it definitely not, you know, I think you know You know put a stamp on him, you know, especially taking over the steadfast Church, you know shows strong leadership skills And he you know, I'm just so thankful for I know the stance he took for us, you know Yeah, well, you know having faithful children not accused of right or unruly doesn't mean one toddler and one infant in my opinion I know maybe some other people might have different view on that But that was Pastor Shelley's position and and he wasn't willing to compromise on that and there were other issues, too It wasn't just that yeah, I mean it was multiple obviously, but yeah, you know that was Adam Fanon the biggest thing Well, what's the big deal? You know, this is multiple children I think and again this could be true for other conflicts but another thing I learned is you know people's true colors only after you go through warfare with them and There were a lot of people who I thought were my friend There were a lot of people who I thought would do the right thing and would stick with Steadfast Baptist Church and not break off to go start up some cult with fan and that didn't do it You know my best friend at the time he split off and went with fan and I haven't spoken to him since not one word So there's people who I really thought better I thought they were better people that actually turned out not to be very good and a lot of that is because You don't find out people's true colors until the after you're in the trenches with them. You look at Aiken after the children of Israel took Jericho It was Aiken who took of the accursed thing So that battle revealed who the covetous one was and it was Aiken. Yeah Yeah, so I mean that's why you know, it's important to go through these battles so you can see who the real who's the phonies Who's the phony and who's legit? Who's too legit to quit? You ever heard that one? alright now let's get to the big enchilada, this is what we teased at the beginning of The program and in the preview video I made Brother Marcel This is where we get ourselves in trouble, but isn't it fun to get in trouble sometimes? Brother Marcel you used to be an attendee a member of Revival Baptist Church, we know that steadfast Jacksonville eventually became revival Baptist Church Jax and You actually you you made it through the KJV conference Talk about that experience Well, I mean I just it was a situation that you know No, they said it was throwing a King James Bible conference. So I was excited and I'm like, hey, yeah They're gonna do a conference on the King James Bible and you know Demolish all these false doctrines and false Bible versions stuff like that, but it turned out differently than what I expected You know, I told you know pastor boy at the end of the day this thing just made me more confused than anything And like I said before I'm glad that these situations happen So that way I could study them out myself and learn it for myself, you know, Bible says to prove all things so, you know, I've pretty much just um, I Just I just kind of been regurgitating what I've learned about the King James Bible translation You know how it was 54 scholars and how they um, you know They translated the Bible from the Greek Hebrew and Aramaic Bible But you know, thanks to pastor Anderson, yeah, yeah let out he said some book by God secretaries Which I purchased and I've been you know, reading they're learning about that and learning a lot more Yeah, so I just been studying out for myself So that way I could just make my own decision on it and I just you know Just believe what anybody says so, you know what they did was they use, you know They're getting you know the Geneva Bible and they use the Bishop the Matthew the Tyndale and they kind of use those and they use that as a skeleton to kind of perfect The King James Bible and all they use, you know, the Greek and Hebrew as a you know Blueprint just to make sure everything was you know lining up So, you know I started there and I've been in the church for three years So, you know, it's kind of hard to just leave the church because you know there for a long time And you know, I was doing a lot of work for the Lord there and you know but You know, I ended up leaving because of the whole Adam Fanon situation. So we already went through an entire battle with Adam Fanon So he you know, he ends up coming to He goes to Orlando, you know and at the time that's my pastor So the way I looked at it was, you know, if you loan him to go to Orlando, you know, you're allowing him in Jacksonville So, you know I was bothered by it. So what I did was the next day You know, I just you know what to pass the boy and I was just like hey, so You know, are you right with pretty but I don't fan and come to the church So he was like, yeah, you know and he was like, you know I want you guys to receive him the way they did in Orlando. Just shake his hand So Pretty much long story short You know, he asked me. Hey, do you think he's a brother? No, like not really, you know Because all this false doctrine especially saying, you know All the things he was saying so I just told him like hey look I don't think I'm gonna be able to attend your church if you're gonna be allowing Adam Fanon in the church I'm not gonna sit here. I'm not gonna have no nice things to say to him You know, I'm not gonna sit here and just sing kumbaya with him after he just split an entire church So ironically come to find out, you know, you know, he already agreed with pastor Shelley that you know He was not gonna allow Adam Fanon into the church, you know, so, you know, I guess you know People just like to break vows around here Right. So what I did, you know and you know the Bible says all things work together for good, you know to them They love God, you know to them who are called according to his purpose. So when that happened, you know You know, I was kind of heartbroken. I'm like man, you know, I invested so much I was in Jackson for three years in 2017 to 2020, you know But like I said, I was happy that I went because I've learned a lot from being there And what I did was I just took a anonymous trip, you know to Texas to come visit and I loved it So brother Ben, let me stay with him for a few days to come visit come check it out And pretty much, you know, it was ever after that was history So I went back home and you know applied some jobs over here the Lord opened the doors and everything just went super smoothly but You know, I'm glad that I'm here I'm looking forward to learning and growing and just being a best lesson to the church any way I can you know So the kjv conference was sort of a little bit of a battle over the king james bible and basically two camps of king james only ism one is a ruckman view that says Mid it or that says uh speaketh and speaks are two completely different things Like if you say speaks it says speaketh that it's a corruption of god's word. They basically believe that the translation Must be literally word for word And that the king james was translated word for word All the time and that any deviation even if it's a synonym constitutes a corruption of god's word and then you have the normal king james only view which Doesn't believe that basically and also the ruckman viewed would teach that God's word has only been preserved in english, but you have to learn english if you want god's perfect word Whereas we believe that god's word has been preserved in other languages as well, right? So if you speak spanish you do have god's word, uh and other languages too, you know, they actually do have god's word you know, so they think eternal and everlasting are different that if you were to switch everlasting in each if you if I Translated a bible or not me, but let's just say you had an arabic translation of the bible for example, and it said Eternal in john 3 in john 316 instead of everlasting then they would say that's a corruption. Yeah exactly Which is stupid because At the end of the day in the english language, there's multiple words that are the same exact word, but have different meanings So, how can you know? Which word to use? Well, you only know by the meaning of the word. Yeah, right. So for example, You know, it says right here in uh, first queens chapter 14 It says there it says in uh verse uh nine it says so like so this what it was talking about is you know A trumpet given on a certain sound, you know, how can you know? What's the you know what to do about the uncertain sound, you know, there's a sound for battle sound for you know, xyz So it says so likewise you accept you utter by the tongue Words easy to be understood. How shall it be known what is spoken for you shall speak into the air? There are it may be so many kinds of voices in the world and none of them is without significant Signification so there's many different languages right and he's saying like, you know, somebody's speaking in tongues. How are you going to know what's being said? Speaking in tongues. How are you going to know what's being said? Right So that and it says therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice Or the language I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me So we see here that you have to use words And you know words have to have meaning so when somebody's speaking a language, you know If you don't know the meaning of that language, how are you going to know what's being spoken? Just like if somebody says a word and you don't know the meaning How are you going to know what's being said just like if somebody you know says a random word like Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious What does that even mean? Right, you know what that means? Nope. No, I don't know what it means either, right? Yeah, I don't know So you only know what eternal means or everlasting means, you know Never ending or forever, right? So we see right here that You you only know what the word means. I mean what the word what the word is by its meaning So when you're saying that something Has to be translated word for word Well, that's not technically true because even though the bible is translated, you know perfectly into the english language, you know If you use different words, I believe it was all translated perfectly and beautiful and it has a beautiful translation But it wouldn't be corrupting god's word if you change it eternal for everlasting because they mean A word is a vehicle by which you communicate meaning And the king james bible is a perfect translation of what god said in a different language Just like I like that Made it nice and simple. Yes so that king james Conference was kind of the first seed of maybe doubt in you in terms that you probably had with that church and then you have fanon show up in orlando and then the jackson people are told that they have to Accept them if you were to walk through the door. Yeah, so at that point you say i'm out Here's the positive though that we can learn from this king james Conference deal. Okay this whole battle over Different camps of king james onlyism first of all, I learned a lot more about king james onlyism I learned a lot more about What it means to be king james only and also How to actually defend the king james only position the right way without sounding like an idiot without sounding like a moron without using stupid Arguments that can be easily debunked by the other side that make us look like we're retarded Okay, so I learned a lot more about that. I learned a lot more about king james onlyism I learned a lot more about the translation process It was great. Yeah, so you have that aspect But I think also I think for you personally the Positive that came out of that battle You moved Yeah, so thank god. I mean And how do you like steadfast Baptist church? I'm loving it. Like I told you I feel like a kid in disney world You're like a kid in disney with the The fellowship talk about that. Yeah, the fellowship is great, you know, but I was just iron sharpened with iron So, you know just like the other day I was at church and I just you know I wanted to see what was somebody else's perspective of you know, this uh, this verse so I just asked you, you know Everybody's giving different answers and i'm loving it because now You know, I get to see what they're thinking see if i'm far off seeing them close and you know, it's just true You know either hang with wise men shall be wise. So if you're in a church full of wise men It's only going to make you wiser Yeah, so if you want to learn you need to be with wise men and come to church It's going to teach you the bible and number one, you know, I just want to come to church where god's word is exalted above all else Yeah, the preaching is great. The fellowship is awesome. There's so many guys at our church It's the all-star team that we could talk to you about the bible or just anything just interesting subjects Everyone knows their bible really well So it is it feels like an all-star team And I think you you've sort of started to experience that now after having been here what a couple of weeks one week It'll be a week. Yeah friday. So not even a couple weeks and you know, you've experienced that It really is amazing. So the soul winning is on fire. The preaching's on fire. The fellowship is on fire And it's a tight-knit group But you know what we have here marcel that we didn't have for a time in jacksonville when we were under fannin and romero's leadership We have unity There aren't these cliques where you have one camp that kind of believes the trinity another camp that believes oneness another camp that Definitely believes the trinity and one we had flat earthers flat earth clique And then another camp that thinks flat earth is retarded another camp that you know We don't have that everyone's in unity. We all love them. Not that we all agree on a hundred percent of doctrines i'm sure that if you were to sit me and I don't know ryan or bannock in a room together We would find something we disagree with but we all believe the fundamentals, but we live fundamentals. Nobody's an idiot There's no bozos And it's refreshing. Yeah So definitely especially here. Yeah, especially after the garbage we went through. Yeah, it's great to have a you know A good pastor over you that's teaching you the bible teaching you good sound doctrine. I mean i'm loving him i'm being fed Yeah, you wanted the steak dinner. Yes, sir Not not just pure ray, you know, yeah, you wanted to be fed with the steak dinner spiritually And I think you're getting that now But yeah, i'm really enjoying our church but You know, we've been through some different battles Oneness the fanning thing the church split in jacksonville And here we are now as members of steadfast baptist church in hearst texas Not for worth technically with the new building and you know what marcel, I mean, it's been a pretty crazy ride last couple years, but Uh, I think we learned a lot though. Yeah, I think we learned a lot just take everything we learned and just Bring it with us, you know Add it to the church over here and just be a blessing And for those of you out there who've been through your own conflicts if you've fought the good fight of faith just understand that Hey, there's always something you can learn. There's always some positive you could take from it. There's always a benefit That you can extract from that experience. Just try and look on the bright side. I think that's If you want to just summarize the show Look on the bright side It sucked to go through what we went through in january 2019. It sucked to go through that oneness thing at the time But look on the bright side Look on the bright side. Look at the good that came from it. Yeah, and you look at fan and romero's situation. Hey, we got rid of Fake leaders. Yeah, that's something else we didn't even talk about. Yeah, I mean I mean we could go on forever. Yeah Yeah, I mean you have to look at the bright side of every situation and just learn from the battles, you know And number one is just you know that The battle is the lord's and god's gonna fight your battles to stay faithful and stay true to his word And you know, everything's gonna work itself out in due time Yeah, uh a phone is ringing. I don't know who that that's yours. I think no, I think it's my wife's phone Anyway, it'll stop ringing here in a minute. Hopefully the people can't hear it. But if you do hear a phone ringing My wife's phone's ringing. All right Well, I don't know. I don't think I think we pretty much Covered what we had to cover, right? I think we covered what we had to cover Did we leave no stone unturned Almost i'm sure we could probably we could do like another hour if we wanted but we're gonna probably just stop it here. So That's gonna do it. I think for the show Uh, I hope you guys enjoyed it hopefully you guys, uh learned something in the sense of just Looking on the bright side and trying to look at the benefits from whatever battle you end up enduring in the future Or battles you've endured in the past And marcel, I want to give you the floor just to kind of Share any closing thoughts that you have or anything that you wanted to say I would say just you know, I would say knowing that tribulation work is patience and patience experience and experience. Hope So all the battles we go through all we're going to do is build patience and experience and we need that experience to grow As people so that way we could be able to have others that are going through those same similar battles in their lives So just take it as a learning moment Yeah, yeah, definitely learn from it and you'll be a better person having gone through some The things that will inevitably storms that will inevitably come yeah in the christian walk, especially if you're trying to actually accomplish things for god Yeah, you're gonna go through storms All right, folks. Well, that's it for the uh podcast tonight marcel man Pleasure to have you on sir. And uh, would you do this again? All right So there you have it. It's on record. He said what he said Got to keep my bow now, right? You got to keep him like we learned this past wednesday night At keep your bow fast judges chapter 11 sermon check it out on the steadfast baptist church youtube channel if you haven't seen it already Thanks for listening to the show everybody. We appreciate it all of you that were in the chat room I don't know who you are or who showed up because this is pre-taped But if you did show up Thank you for your support go to bend the baptist kgb.com for the archive of every single episode of this broadcast that's ever been recorded and until next monday night, this is ben naim signing off with brother marcel lugo And i'll see you guys next time What else do you want to say gosby talk to you guys again after a while So So So So So You