(Disclaimer: This transcript is auto-generated and may contain mistakes.) you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Did you get that pulled up, Pastor Shelley? Did you want to talk about the origins of the SBC for a few moments because it has a very strange birth I think you could say in the sense that they split from Northern Baptist churches over a disagreement on slave owning missionaries they wanted also the North wanted to be more loosely associated rather than a non-denomination like the SBC eventually turned into but what can you tell the audience about you preached a sermon about this a number of years ago I believe, you can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was your first year as a pastor in 2018 where you preached a sermon about the Southern Baptist Convention I listened to it recently and you went through and you talked about the origins you talked about how they had a meeting in, what was it, 1845 or something like that 1845 meeting in order to form the organization that we now know as the Southern Baptist Convention, so if there's something you wanted to share perhaps about the origins of this group that might be useful before we get into some of the doctrines that could be a good place to start and I'll just give a really high level view but essentially in America in the 1600s when the colonies are being formed there was a Baptist nomination coming over here some would attribute Roger Williams as the first Baptist and I preached whole sermons on the generations and where Baptists came from it even ties back further to a guy named John Smith over in Europe but essentially the Baptist churches in America first coming out there's only a handful, they kind of started forming an alliance, forming a convention forming a kind of coalition and it eventually was I don't know if I can remember the name but you can look this up, it's something like the Northern Baptist or something like that essentially, but over time there became a lot more churches involved and you had both the Northern states and the Southern states kind of having the Civil War having a lot of tension over issues like slavery, well it got to a point where the Northern Baptist churches were no longer willing to support a missionary that owned slaves, they basically said that person's not qualified to be a missionary that we're going to give money to to go out and preach the gospel because they find it morally reprehensible that anyone would own slaves and especially then be the representation for a missionary and so essentially the Northern churches said we no longer will pay for slave owning missionaries now the Southern Baptist churches then said this is an attack on the gospel for some reason and so they broke off from the Northern Baptist and they formed the Southern Baptist Convention 1845 and it literally in their charter and in their documentation they literally are saying we are doing this because our slave owning missionaries are not getting funded in order to be a missionary which is the thing, to be a missionary all you have to do is have a King James Bible on your hand, you don't need to get paid number one and number two who isn't against slavery but obviously at that point in time and in history a lot of Southerners believed in slavery, they twisted the Bible to their own convenience so the origin of the Southern Baptist Convention is literally coming from slave foundation, that's the whole reason it even exists and it's kind of bizarre that that's not even brought up nobody's educating anybody on this but of course you don't really want to necessarily if you're in the SBC point that out because that's going to not win over anybody realizing that you started based on the premise of slavery being so important to you that you literally have to divide and break fellowship with other churches so that you can pay for these missionaries that have slaves but as you go through the history they have different doctrinal statements and they had a couple in the 1900s and they didn't do it very often, they had like a 1963 version I believe I think there's like an older one then there's like a 1960s, 63 and then there's the 2000 version which is the most up to date, most recent doctrinal statement that they have but if you look at this if you pull this up and you can go to the SBC website, you can look at their doctrinal statements in the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message it says in the salvation section, it kind of has a few different paragraphs about salvation specifically but when it's talking about regeneration it brings up repentance and specifically then it defines repentance it says, and this is A, so this is of salvation, they're talking about letter A, regeneration just talking about the new birth, how you get saved, being born again it says that repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace and then it defines for you what repentance is it says repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God, so in their doctrinal statement, right off the bat, it literally says repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God now turning from sin is very clearly not sinning that would be no more lying, no more stealing, no more adultery, no more fornication but you know, the Bible lists a lot of things as sin, not just fornication, adultery, murder it says the thought of foolishness is sin, the Bible says that if you look upon the opposite gender, a woman with lust, you're committing adultery with her in your heart, the Bible makes it abundantly clear that just any kind of lying is a sin I mean, the Bible says just hating someone for the wrong reason would be a sin, so if we were honest with ourselves, we probably sin multiple times every single day even the best of us this is a preposterous idea to say that anyone has genuinely turned from sin it doesn't say like want to turn from sin, it doesn't say being willing to turn from sin, it doesn't say you know, hope so, maybe it says a genuine turning from sin I would love to know what prideful arrogant person can literally say I've completely turned from sin I no longer sin and it's completely genuine, I mean this appeals to the prideful to the arrogant to those that are honestly just lying hypocrites because no one has genuinely turned from sin and James chapter 2 verse 10 says if someone were to keep the whole law, yet offended one point, he is guilty of all, so according to the Bible, it doesn't take a lot of sin to get into heaven, it doesn't take a lifestyle of sin to get into, I'm sorry let me word that out, it doesn't take a lot of sin to go to hell it doesn't take a life a life full of sin to go to hell, it takes one sin and anybody that is trusting anything other than the finished work of Jesus Christ is death burial and resurrection, if they think that they're genuine turning from sin or they're turning from sin or adding repentance to their gospel gets them into heaven, they're not even saved, they don't even know what the gospel is, because the repentance necessary for salvation is not a turning from sin it's a turning from trusting in yourself to be saved I would say this, it's a repenting of repenting of your sin as necessary for the gospel, rejecting that and believing it's faith the Bible makes it abundantly clear, serves what must I do to be saved believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved John 3.16, whosoever believeth the Bible says in John 3.15, whosoever believeth the Bible says in John 3.36 that when you believe you have everlasting life, hath, it's present tense, the Bible says over and over that it's faith, it's by grace it's not of works, as any man should boast Romans 3.28 says therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law meaning that no deed no genuine turning from repenting of sin, genuine turning from sin, has anything to do with salvation why is it that all of these Baptists got together and literally put that in their doctrinal statement, it tells me that there's some tears amongst the wheat and I do want to say this before we get a little bit too deep in this and I've gone on a little bit of a monologue here but I do not believe that every Southern Baptist is like an unsaved heretic, devil I believe that there's a lot of saved people that go to a Southern Baptist church, in fact it's probably one of the top denominations you're going to find people that are even saved a lot of people genuinely love the Lord and not all Southern Baptist churches are the same since you have 50,000, some are crazy extreme liberal and others are very conservative and more traditional and so obviously we're going to be painting with a little bit of a broad brush here this evening but I would not associate myself or be in a convention that has a doctrinal statement where we're talking about the most important doctrine, salvation, literally teaches a false gospel, teaches a works-based salvation, Galatians makes this abundantly clear that we're not allowed to tolerate any kind of perversion of the gospel no matter how minute it may seem on the surface and this is not a minute difference Ben, what do you think about this genuine turning away from sin for salvation? I think it's damnable heresy, I think it's works salvation, I think that it is anti-biblical and so this is the reason why we're doing a podcast like this is to warn people, I love those who would go to this church, I don't love those who are the false prophets but the people who are being deceived, I want them to be exposed to the truth and understand exactly what they're walking into with regard to the SBC. You mentioned a lot there, you kind of unloaded the truck here to start the podcast off and I appreciate that you did that though. I want to go back and forth a little more often. It's okay, no I mean there's a lot there, I want to address repentance but I also, you said something about slavery that I needed to respond to. In Exodus 21 verse 16 the Bible says the man that wander, I'm sorry, Exodus I'm in Proverbs, good night, my apologies let me go to Exodus. You know someone put this in the comments and it's pretty funny and I didn't think about this. A really famous Southern Baptist is Jack Hyles. Jack Hyles was an ordained Southern Baptist preacher and then left the Southern Baptist and became an independent Baptist. Others like J. Frank Norris in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and both Hyles and J. Frank Norris were in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Hyles eventually went to Hammond, Indiana but they were former Southern Baptists and they left the convention because they realized it was rotten. They realized there was problems. I think J. Frank Norris might have even been just kicked out so I don't know about how exactly that unfolded. But I am illustrating that it's not like everyone and there's bad. In fact a lot of great people have been there. Our goal is just to expose that it's so rotten that the good people need to get out. They need to withdraw themselves from this false doctrine and the false teaching and stay true to Baptist doctrine because it's unchanging and slavery was always wrong. It's not like some people say the Bible used to teach slavery was good. No, the Bible never taught that slavery was good. Ben is going to read us a really good verse here. Why don't you give us Exodus 21 16 It says, And he that stealeth the man and selleth him, or if it be found at his hand, he shall surely be put to death. Clearly this condemns the type of slavery that the United States was guilty of, that America was guilty of in the past, and that a lot of people would twist the Bible to say that the Bible endorses this when it actually does not. We have a very clear verse showing that those who would steal another individual to sell them, that that person would be worthy of the death penalty. And we can talk a little bit more about that when we get into the Holman Christian Standard Bible, because of course, it's not just the doctrines that are wrong, but also when it comes to the SBC, they use a false Bible version. They use a very bad mistranslation of the Bible that actually is based on corrupt manuscripts. And we can get into that a little bit later on. I don't want to get ahead of myself. I also want to point out, because we brought up what their doctrinal statement says, and it talks about repentance there. It calls it a genuine turning from sin, repenting of all your sin to be saved. This is a heresy that isn't exclusive to the SBC. You see a lot of churches that parrot this talking point, including some independent fundamental Baptist churches. It's not like they're all right either. Some of those are ran by heretics. Some of those are ran by false prophets. Jonah chapter 3, it says in verse 10, And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way. And God repented of the evil that he had said that he would do unto them, and he did it not. So we have two doctrines that you can get out of this verse, two conclusions you could draw from this verse. First of all, it said that God saw their works that they turned from their evil way. So if the Southern Baptist Convention is saying that you have to repent of your sins or turn from your sins in order to go to heaven, well, that is defined, according to Jonah chapter 3, verse 10, as works. So that would be a work salvation. In addition, we see that God repented here in this verse, meaning that the word repentance is neutral. So the point I'm trying to make is it's defined by its context. Obviously, when God is repenting, he's not repenting of sin because he has no sin. And a really good way to prove this, that it's a neutral word, is in Jeremiah 18. I believe it's in verse number 10. It says, and if it do evil in my sight that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good wherewith I said I would benefit them. So on salvation, yes, repentance is necessary, but what repentance are we talking about? People think that the word repent automatically means to repent of sins or to repent of something evil. But here we have God repenting of the good. You can repent of good things as well. You can repent of soul winning. You can repent of going to church. You can repent of reading your Bible. Is that repentance necessary to go to heaven? Obviously not. What are we talking about when it comes to repentance in the context of salvation? Well, I believe that you've got Matthew chapter 21 verse 32 that gives us an example. And it says, For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and he believed him not. But the publicans and the harlots believed him. And ye, when he had seen it, repented not afterwards that ye might believe him. Regarding salvation, in the context of going to heaven, repentance is simply turning from unbelief to belief, turning from whatever you're trusting now to get you to heaven, to trusting only in the Lord Jesus Christ, which is why the Bible says the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent ye and believe the gospel. Turn from whatever it is that you're trusting now and instead believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. In Acts chapter 20 verse 21, testifying both to the Jews and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. So I think I've made the point. We have God repenting, which proves that the word repent does not always mean repent of sins or else God would be a sinner. We have the Ninevites in Jonah chapter 3 verse 10 turning from their evil way. It says God saw their works. So turning from your sin would actually be a works-based salvation if that's what was required for you to get to heaven. And then we also see how that word is actually used in the New Testament in terms of getting saved. It's turning from unbelief to belief and Pastor Shelley it's unfortunate, but a lot of people use this phrase repent of your sins, including the Southern Baptist Convention, including their individual churches. And we see it on the doctrinal statement there. And it's like they didn't they on one out of one side of their mouth. They say salvation is a free gift. All you have to do is believe. But then they say you have to repent of your sins. It's this weird cognitive dissonance. Yeah, it's just really it's similar to just someone that doesn't know what they're talking about. They repeat talking points without actually slowing down and actually understanding the words that are coming out of their mouth desiring to be teachers understanding neither what they say nor where they affirm. That's what the Bible brings up about false teachers is that they'll say a lot of things that they actually have no idea what it really means. And I have to believe that a majority or a large swath of these preachers that are saying both they say salvation is a free gift and you've got to genuinely turn away from your sins. They're not saved. They don't even know what they're talking about. It is possible that someone could use the wrong phrase terminology and kind of have redefined it in their mind or other people kind of trick them about what they're meaning. And I've heard people say repent of your sins and then you kind of tie them down and they they kind of wiggle out of some kind of a damnable heresy. But the Southern Baptist Convention here on their doctoral statement isn't being vague. I almost feel like they're making it overly clear a genuine turning away from sin. I mean that's not like an accidental phrase that you just you kind of mean something else. I mean there's I don't know see how you could ever turn that into salvation by faith. Like that is just so clear not salvation by faith that I don't see how any honest person could read that and say yep they believe salvation by faith alone of grace alone no works. I mean that is about as hardcore as you get. I mean other than just saying like it takes full blown works to get saved. I mean I just don't know what they could say for you to literally say they're teaching false doctrine here. Especially when you look at that through the lenses of Jonah 3 10 I mean is that not works. This is such damnable heresy. Now we have so much to cover. I think we you know definitely want to cover some other things but this is the most important point folks. If there's any reason to leave a church or a convention it has to be on the salvation issue. I mean there's no other issue that's more important. I know we already have a couple callers on the line and I want to get to you guys in just a second and hopefully our callers if they've had any experience with SBCE maybe they can share some of their experience with us but we also brought up the Bible translation issue and I think that I think this is an important point too because obviously if you're tampering with the Bible it's going to be easy to also then tamper with salvation and one of the verses you brought up in your binologue Matthew 7 14 which you know the King James Bible says straight is the gate and narrows the way which leadeth on the life and few there be that find it and when the Bible says straight it's a little bit different spelling than being a homo we're not talking about that kind of straight we're talking about something being narrow S-T-R-A-I-T which is a synonym for narrow so the Bible is just saying it saying the same thing twice to give you a really clear picture of what it's talking about. Essentially it would be narrow is the way narrow is the way straight is the way it's just kind of saying that it's a small sliver of the way that you actually get to heaven and that makes perfect sense if the only way to get to heaven is Jesus Christ I mean he said I am the way the truth the life no man cometh unto the father but by me that sounds pretty straight I mean in the sense that there's only one way that's pretty narrow when you have one option I mean could it get any narrower than that if it's getting narrower then there's no way to heaven so it's saying there is a way and it's as narrow as it could possibly be in the sense that there's only one option it's either faith in Christ or nothing it's not faith plus baptism that's not going to get you there it's not faith plus your church attendance and it's certainly not faith plus genuinely turning away from all of your sin that's a completely different path that will not lead you to heaven will lead you straight to hell just like the atheist Muslim and Hindu and so in the Holman Christian Standard Bible though which is a version that's sponsored by the Southern Baptist Convention they kind of own a Christian publishing company LifeWay I believe is what it is and they have a lot of publications they didn't like some of the modern versions so they made their own the Holman Christian Standard Bible and in Matthew 7 14 you had read it for us but it said difficult how narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life and few find it now there's a huge difference between a road being really narrow and it being really difficult and in fact if you look at the John MacArthur study Bible he has a New King James study Bible in this verse it says the same thing in the New King James as a difficult he literally teaches that salvation is difficult now here's the thing how difficult is it for you to one time put your faith in Jesus Christ by calling upon the name of the Lord I have to say that it has to be one of the most easy things you could ever do and of course if God loves us why would he want the road to heaven to be so difficult you know the only difficulty in regards to salvation was what Jesus had to do for us but you know what he did the hard part so that we could do the easy part simply trusting in him and him carrying us all the way through his bloody cross what blasphemy to say that what Jesus did is basically muted by our own self effort and works of going through this difficult road of repentance in order to get to heaven that is works based salvation and anyone who believes that is not saved they need to get the gospel preached to them and hopefully from a King James Bible so they don't have the gospel corrupted for them I mean I see a pattern here corrupt Bible corrupt gospel but a lot of people don't even realize this they're not even on the King James Bible this isn't just a Holman Christian Standard Bible issue this is in every modern Bible version isn't it Ben yeah the Holman Christian Standard Bible actually sounds a lot like all the other ones it sounds like the NIV the NLT even the New King James you brought up uses the same verbiage in Matthew 7 14 the John MacArthur footnote makes it even worse but to me there's two lessons you could take from Matthew 7 14 Jesus is the only way but also that few the quantity not the quality but the quantity of people who are going to be saved in the grand scheme of things right there aren't going to be that many people who get saved because many are trusting in their own works when you have an entire denomination like the SBC pushing a repent of your sins gospel gospel then that further proves the point but it's about the quantity Matthew 7 14 not the quality of the works involved by the individuals who are going down the narrow path to salvation it has nothing to do with that the hard part was accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary but you also have 1 Corinthians 1 18 which turns salvation into a process it says in their HCSB corruption for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but it is God's power to us who are being saved now the last time I checked it's believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved the last time I checked it's done you know in Titus chapter number 3 not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to his mercy he saved us with a D at the end that's the last time you know when I read through some of those salvific passages in the King James Bible that's what I read last time I looked through it it's because that's what the Bible teaches you're saved with a D at the end for by grace are you saved with a D at the end this is not a process it's not a lifestyle it's not something that takes a long time it occurs in the twinkling of an eye the second that you decide to place all your faith and trust and rely and depend on the Lord Jesus Christ you are saved you have eternal life you have the Holy Ghost sealed inside you and the Holman Christian Standard Bible takes this essential doctrine of the faith one of the foundations of the faith and corrupts it what a shame well and the King James in the verse you read it doesn't say being saved it says are saved so it's a completely different understanding thank you for bringing that up and you know it's just some people say oh these modern versions they don't change any important doctrine but we've just brought up literally verses that are used to twist the gospel and to pervert the gospel mentioning that it's a process I've heard preachers preach being saved is a part of salvation that it's a process so this isn't just a straw man argument I have heard preachers get up and preach these things and you know when you have a denomination that has a Christian bookstore literally life way is like they're kind of associated with the Southern Baptist Convention they're producing all these materials you know they don't hold back on what versions they use even though they might say hey you know we prefer they'll still sell you an NIV though they'll still sell you an ESV they'll still sell you all these modern versions and in fact what's really interesting growing up I've seen kind of an evolution in these because when you used to go to life way it only had Christian material but at some point and I don't know the exact timeline here you'd have to look it up but eventually you know what they also started selling Catholic paraphernalia and so literally now they've kind of divided their stores a lot of these Christian stores like Mardel and Life Way and one side is like the Catholic section another side is like the Christian section they literally have idols I mean they have the graven images and they have the crucifixes and they have all this stuff in there that you can buy and I'm thinking like how is this part of the Gospels like selling idols to Catholics who aren't even saved I'm just thinking like how far are you going to go I mean at what point do you say this is not even Christianity anymore this is not even the Gospel but obviously the love of money is the root of all evil and so it's important that people realize that the devil often does not necessarily just go from A to Z it goes to A B C D so you see this progression you see this slow deterioration you know corruption takes you know time the devil is not going to necessarily throw the frog in a pot of boiling water he's going to slowly turn up the heat and with the Southern Baptist Convention I've seen through the even in my own lifetime a deterioration a falling away and the Bible teaches that there will be a literal falling away before the coming of Christ so why would I not be leery of the biggest denominations these biggest groups making a lot of these changes how do I not know that they're just falling hook line sinker for the Antichrist agenda that's why it's important to make sure that you have a Bible that doesn't change like the King James Bible which was translated in 1611 and while the spellings were updated in 1769 same Bible same words and now I have a King James Bible in my hand right here it's 2022 in America and guess what it still says the same thing as all the other versions now of course you know sometimes printing errors creep into any Bible any translation that's the only thing that's really been updated in King James Bibles is the various printing errors and typographical errors but we're talking about the words they're not they haven't changed for over 400 years they're still the same thing God's word doesn't change obviously we translate it from Greek and Hebrew but that was necessary because how could an English person get the Bible if they don't speak Greek and Hebrew we don't need to constantly translate it in English but it's already been translated we don't need to constantly translate it over and over and over again and try to get closer to what God said now we have what God said is in the King James Bible a child can understand the King James Bible today that can memorize it it's precious unto them and it's an important distinction to realize you need to treasure what God actually said not get these corrupted versions that are based on completely different manuscripts completely different history completely different origin they're not even complete if you look in the NIV it takes out 16 whole verses a lot of these phrases have been changed and malaligned and I think a lot of people are just ignorant of what's going on because they've just been lied to their whole life and they don't want to think that their pastor or the people in their church are doing anything wrong because they're a good hearted person and it's kind of it's kind of sick when you think about it like the people that you trust the people you grow up with the people that you love that they could be wrong on some of these issues they could have taught you things that are wrong they could be going down a wrong path you know it's kind of a scary proposition but if it's true you need to figure it out and get on the right path you don't want to just follow well intentioned people down the wrong path you want to make sure you're following Christ and you're following him on the narrow and straight path I like that we're starting off with two of the most important issues here which is salvation and the Bible version they're using now the publishers claim that they wanted to basically provide the English speaking people across the world with an accurate readable Bible in contemporary English and some may point to the HCSB and think well it's easier than the King James well that's not the case Daniel 3 3 the King James uses the very difficult word princes well that's changed in the HCSB to say traps because what I think of the word princes I think that is way too archaic I'd rather say say traps they get rid of hell they instead use the word Hades the transliteration of the Greek word and there are a lot of other examples where they're taking an easy King James word like the word boat turning it into skiff is another example they take something that's easy in the King James they make it more difficult so it's actually not really easier to read that's a lie but also the idea that it really doesn't make that big of a difference alright fine you pointed out the repentance of sins but why are you picking on the HCSB well here's why the Holman Christian Standard Bible I'm gonna go rapid fire here the Holman Christian Standard Bible replaces the word Lord with Yahweh what's the point of something like that is that simply to make it easier to read there seems to be a nefarious purpose for some of these edits how about this one the Holman Christian Standard Bible just like other modern versions it removes the verse that we would use as a proof text rather that we would use as a proof text for the trinity 1 John chapter number 5 verse 7 simply becomes in the King James it's for there are three that bear record in heaven the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one and in the modern perversions of scripture and here in the HCSB it's no different it simply turns into for there are three that testify almost as if it's like some sort of T.D. Jakes quote or something like that there are three that testify somebody give me an amen like really what happened to the iconic proof text for the trinity that you see in the real Bible well the trinity is an important doctrine and it's something that's under attack and you know I believe that the trinity is a salvific doctrine it's one where if you're off on the trinity I don't believe you have the same Christ and if you're not trusting the right Christ you're not even saved and that's a great point with these is that this is attacking salvation specifically I think we even have a clip on some of these teachings from the Southern Baptist you think we should play I know you've got some clips for us I think there's like a repentance clip that we have that we can play can we get that pulled up? let's go with let me see here I think there's a false view of repentance is that well we've got Ed Litton he's their current president and he talks about this is a sermon about repentance yeah he's talking about like how salvation's always accompanied by works if you don't have works you're not truly saved et cetera so we could go ahead and play that one here Ed Litton salvation always accompanied by works now he became the president of the Southern Baptist convention in June of 2021 recently announced that he's not going to run for re-election or whatever word would be appropriate to use there but let's listen to him define what true salvation really looks like in his opinion so if God is going to judge by my works is God going to judge by my works or by the motivation of my heart? the answer is yes. pay close attention we are saved by grace through faith and not our works what you believe leads us to a heart change if you believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ he gives you the Holy Spirit to change your heart internally with that change comes a change in actions in your life Charles Haddon Spurgeon believed that you are not likely saved if you never care to share the gospel with anybody wow conversion is not church membership conversion is not baptism it's not serving conversion is the Holy Spirit taking residence and president of your heart and changing you from the inside out has that ever happened well you know again these clips are just confusing because he's saying you know salvation is just you know faith and it's not our works he literally read that from the the corrupt version which still says the same thing though that is you know saying not of works but then he's saying oh well let's quote Spurgeon and Spurgeon saying if you didn't give the gospel to anybody in your life then you're not even saved you know well I think that there's a lot of people who are saved who've probably never given the gospel to someone or gotten them saved you know the Bible literally even brings it up in the parable of the sower that the majority are not giving the gospel you got those that are immediately offended they're not giving the gospel you got those that got the word being choked they're not giving the gospel so in the parable of the sower you got four groups the first group's not saved the second group's saved but just doesn't serve God at all the third group they kind of try but then they just kind of fall away because the world's too important to them kind of like demons have forsaken me having loved this present world and has departed on Thessalonica and then you finally got a fourth group the last group is the one that's bearing fruit and in fact it doesn't say they got one person saved it says 30 60 100 so you know if we're gonna go with that logic we gotta say well unless you're getting 30 people saved then you're not even saved which would be a preposterous suggestion if the Bible says salvation's by faith now I believe that the Holy Spirit dwells inside of us the moment we get saved and it's drawing us to follow Christ be more like Christ crucify the flesh do that which is right but you know you can resist that you can still walk in the flesh otherwise Roman 7 would make no sense they're on the Romans expedition why aren't they reading what Paul had to say about himself so this is a this is a preposterous idea and of course when you're reading these false versions you're in this convention where you say both it's free gift but you gotta genuinely turn away from your sins they gotta kind of preach both I mean I don't do you feel like you understand even at all what that guy believes it's a contradiction if salvation is not by works but if you don't have the works if you're not giving the gospel you're not saved then you're still being justified by your works it's this lordship salvation muddying the waters and it should be no surprise considering they're preaching from a false Bible version from which you can derive this heresy I mean in Proverbs 16 6 it says that wickedness is atoned for by loyalty in the HCSB we already talked about what it does to 1 Corinthians 1 18 and Matthew 7 14 and so it's easy for them to twist the truth when they have a Bible that makes it that makes it you know that enables them rather is what I'm trying to say it enables them to do so this false version that they're using but think about Lot think about you know Demas in the New Testament think about King Saul you know he murdered God's priests through Doeg the Edomite he killed himself but then according to 1 Samuel chapter 28 verse 19 he went to heaven well when did Saul give the gospel to anybody and when did he give the gospel there are so many different backslidden Christians Solomon at the end of his life you know with all those wives and concubines I mean could be another example of both how many people is Lot getting saved it doesn't seem like he got anybody saved in Sodom and there are a lot of backslidden Christians in scripture who we know went to heaven so you have that you know obviously you have Romans chapter 4 but to him that worketh not but believeth in him to testify at the ungodly his faith is counted for righteousness and people might want to play devil's advocate with that and say well the works there the worketh not is only in reference to something that happens prior to salvation well I don't get that from the plain reading of the text the plain reading of the text is telling me that if you have no works whether it's before or after salvation that you're saved that you will go to heaven even as David also described it the blessedness of the man unto whom God impudeth righteousness without works saying blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin and so the Bible makes it abundantly clear that whether you have the works after you get saved or before is irrelevant because it's simply just by faith and I believe that on this issue it is a lack of understanding of the doctrine of the old man and the new man those who recognize the difference between the old man and the new man will realize that works do not come automatically because they come through the agency of the believer choosing to walk in the spirit to walk in the new man and consequently exhibit good works whereas if they choose through their own agency to walk in the flesh then they will exhibit the works of the flesh well you know what I'm thinking about this clip and this is kind of my on the fly parable so help me if it doesn't make sense but this is how I liken his preaching it would be if I said hey Ben I've got this really awesome party that I want to invite you to it's got everything you could ever want all the food we're gonna have a great time it's the greatest place you could ever show up at it's gonna be at the coolest mansion in the area and it's completely free okay all you have to do is when you show up say Pastor Shelley's got me Pastor Shelley said I could come it's free and he said he's paid for it so you get to come in and I say but I also want to tell you something else Ben everyone that comes to this party they give a $50,000 donation before they show up and wouldn't you think like but is it free yeah it's completely free you don't have to pay anything but everyone that's at the party made the $50,000 donation you would kind of think like so do I have to make the $50,000 donation no no no no no Ben you don't have to make the $50,000 donation but everyone that's going to the party everyone that's gonna actually make it to the party gave a $50,000 donation before they showed up and of course what are you gonna do you're gonna have people show up at the door and they're gonna say yeah why should I let you in and they're gonna say oh I made a $50,000 donation and then the guy's gonna be like that's not enough the price it was priceless you can't pay that it was actually $50 trillion in order to get into this party and you're like I don't got $50 trillion and so you're gonna come short and they're gonna not you're not gonna be in the party the same with salvation a lot of people are gonna show up and they're thinking that it was their good efforts their good works and they're gonna get and stand before God and they're gonna say hey haven't we done all these wonderful works and he's gonna say depart from me I never knew you because it's trusting in Jesus that gets you into heaven now of course in my parable there's nothing wrong with giving a donation and of course we should you know do works for God but if it was truly free then you would say look it's a free party can show up if you'd like to give a dollar you can you could give $5, $50,000 even if you give $0 just show up and say you know Pastor Shelley paid for me I'm getting in okay and someone's gonna twist this and be like oh Pastor Shelley's saying he's Jesus I'm not Jesus I didn't you know pay for salvation I'm just using this as a parable so bear with me what do you think about this parable wouldn't you be confused thinking that you had to give this $50,000 donation now yeah so it would be required of me it seems based on the parable to pay all this money even though it was on the onset branded as free in order to attend and that's what they're doing to the gospel it's free you just have to believe however if you don't exhibit works afterward automatically if you're not giving the gospel to people then you were never saved to begin with so we actually are adding works in a roundabout way when they teach that it is it's extremely confusing and like I said I believe it is a twisting and or misunderstanding or intentional omission of the doctrine of the old man versus the new man which tells us specifically that if you walk in the flesh you're going to exhibit the works of the flesh if you walk in the spirit you'll exhibit the fruit of the spirit but it's dependent on your free will and it's almost Calvinistic to say exactly that the works will come as automatically yeah and I mean he talked about it being the motivation of your heart so it gets you saved and I agree with that because you know it's not that doing good works is going to get you out of heaven or something it's like why are you doing the good works are you doing them because you're genuinely thankful that you're getting into this awesome party called heaven or are you doing it as your ticket as your price to get in and that's really what separates the wheat from the chaff Cain you know he gave a sacrifice under the Lord Abel gave a sacrifice on the Lord one was accepted one wasn't what was the difference it was the motivation you know one's doing it by the offering his works and the other one's offering a sacrifice and if you offer your works you're not getting in it's not some sacrifice some works or a little bit of both or I had them it's just like Abel offered a hundred princess sacrifice saved and if you had anything other than sacrifice if you had anything other than the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and your faith in him alone you're not saved you're not getting into the door you will come short now I think we have a couple colors on the line I know we've been kind of at least a few I don't know how many we have we might not get up to all of them this evening but I think we have a Robert that's calling in he's from Florida some people like that state I do one of my favorite states in fact some beautiful state yeah some people are weird that live in Florida and then they move to Texas you know and you gotta you gotta Florida eyes you know Texas you know I've heard some better than California I think fluoride floridizing is it floridizing Texas you're falling I thought they were doing that to our water or something okay well we've got Robert on the line hey Robert why don't you say hi to Robert don't blow it hey there he is hey how's it going good how are you are you from Florida awesome we're having a good night awesome well we're talking about the Southern Baptist Convention do you have any thoughts for us yeah I went to a Southern Baptist Church for five years actually and so I've got a good bit of experience with them well tell us what it was like yeah so as you mentioned earlier now some of them have the right gospel not all of them are these repenting or sinned heretics but so the one that I went to had the right gospel and I got saved in there but my criticism would be just how weak of a church it was you know I had a family full of unsafe people after going there for five years you know all my brothers none of them got saved then my dad didn't get saved going to this church for five years and this is something I had to kind of identify more recently and thankfully they're all saved now but it's just one of the things I would want to point out essentially would be the fruit of the Southern Baptist Convention is just there's not really much from it you know pretty much all the proof that you see comes from independent fundamental Baptist churches the soul winning and with the King James Bible well wait a minute so I want to make sure I understand this your whole family is going to a Southern Baptist church and and then you get saved there but they're not saved like with someone at the church many of them did not well how did you get saved then did someone in that church get you saved or did you get saved while attending but from some other source yeah so I personally went up to the pastor and I asked him and he only gave me a handful of verses so again it was not very strong okay you know like but I mean like I said they did make progress so my dad got on faith alone but he didn't have what they'd always say and so like I had to tell him you know it's not about not committing suicide or not committing murder because he had that Catholic background I had to show him all that stuff later so it was kind of like I said just very watered down church a very weak gospel poor presentation you know it basically I was one of those like act 16 cases but you know everyone else isn't really all that interested so you like approached your pastor or you're asking him how to get saved and then he's giving you the gospel like one on one kind of but yeah to the rest of your church if they're not asking they're basically not figuring it out or getting it yeah essentially like there'd be every once in a while like and I never even found any of this because I was in like a Sunday school but my mom told me that every once in a while they would do a like a gospel sermon but other than so other than that there was no soul winning none of that kind of stuff well then how did your family get saved? did you like confront them yourself or did this pastor talk to them or what happened? yeah so my mom was an independent fundamental Baptist before we went to the Trinity she got saved there but you know she married a Catholic and all that kind of stuff but my I personally led two of my brothers and my dad to the board and then the third one got saved actually by watching Pastor Anderson and I didn't realize that they weren't saved until maybe eight months ago well praise the Lord that's awesome it's actually preaching what was the motivation like why'd you decide to you know check their salvation get them saved where'd you learn that from? so I actually came across Pastor Anderson in 2017 just by accident I auto play was on on YouTube and then no world order bible versions played that's the first time I ever learned about independent fundamental Baptist and I kind of got all on board on that after a while but essentially I had some people on Twitter I joined a Baptist group chat and they actually pressured me to get into church and actually start you know getting right with God change career plans all that kind of stuff and so it was only then that I really took that stuff seriously started questioning my family and I realized that because I thought they were before I got saved there I thought they would've but that's basically how it happened that's how I learned how to soul win was online through Pastor Anderson and I got into a soul winning church took me like a month well that's great and you know it's sometimes intimidating you know especially if your family is already going to a quote unquote Baptist church you know whether that be Southern or not to see if they're saved but it's sad how many people go to a church even a Baptist church and they're still just not even saved they really haven't changed their mind they're still trusting in their works they're trusting in themselves or they're confused about the gospel and we find over here doing some soul winning we run into a lot of Southern Baptists that simply say going to Heaven is being a good person have you done any soul winning outside of your family in that area? Oh absolutely do you run into other so do you run into other Southern Baptists like when you talk to just people out in the neighborhood? Yeah absolutely in fact the first Baptist I ever knocked the door on said you had to be a good person and so that was like a wake up call you know what I mean? Isn't that crazy? Absolutely I was not expecting it I think that people I think that soul winning changes your mind about so many things because you finally get confronted with what people actually believe and you start realizing like a lot of these people aren't even saved what do you think Ben? Have you run into some Southern Baptists while giving the gospel out or preaching the gospel? I've ran into people who've identified themselves as Baptist they said that they go to a Baptist church I wasn't able to confirm whether it was SBC or not but for sure you know you'll meet a lot of people who would claim to go to a Baptist church or even claim to have been Baptist for their entire lives and yet they give you an answer on salvation and the gospel that isn't even anywhere near right and it kind of leaves you flabbergasted like well hold on a minute I thought you went to a Baptist church I thought Baptist churches were supposed to be clear on this issue I thought that this would be something you could understand quickly that you would give me the answer that was right etc but unfortunately and I think we see it in the SBC and we see it even in independent fundamental Baptist circles as well where they're not very meticulous about this doctrine which you would think of all the doctrines in the world that you would emphasize would be salvation would be the gospel of all the doctors of the world that you would want to hammer in to make sure your church understands it would be how to go to heaven but unfortunately when you go out soul when you meet people who go to seemingly good churches or churches that use the Baptist name and yet they're not saved and it's sad Well I think we should challenge our audience if anybody is like Robert they're going to a Baptist church but they've never talked to their family members or friends that go to their church about salvation that they need to do it because it's a sad reality and you don't want to be at the great white throne judgment and be surprised by a family member there and think like man I never gave them the gospel I never even just double checked I mean what could be more important than checking that your family and your friends are on the way to heaven and I understand it's intimidating you know I've tried to preach to family members and stuff and try to get them saved and I find it's way more difficult and intimidating to give them the gospel but I still find it super important. What about you Robert would you say that preaching to family is easier or harder than like going out and talking to strangers? I would say it was harder but what it kind of did was it made me want to practice on other people first that way I wouldn't screw up on the important one so it got me on soul winning Well and I think if you can do it to your family then you should realize how much easier it is to just go out and talk to strangers and just anybody and everybody that you find going on the highways and hedges and that's great now when you went to the Southern Baptist Church I've been to Southern Baptist Church where the pastor seems saved seems to have the right gospel but what what version of the Bible were they using? So I think that they were doing the ESV but it has been a few years you know it might have been the NIV or whatever I was given an NIV but once I saw Pastor Anderson documenter I just threw that away but so I definitely Christians get mixed up on that stuff it doesn't mean that they're necessarily on saying you could technically save someone with another version but if it's a different message okay it's not the same thing Sure. Well and I've seen a lot of Southern Baptist churches are pretty Calvinistic too so Oh yeah that was actually one of the things I wanted to talk about Well, share Yeah yeah so I've got right here an article that I pulled out and so it says here first Calvinist led churches are in the minority though the number is increasing second oh wait sorry that was the wrong portion here it is my bad Well around 10% of rank and file Southern Baptist pastors will consider themselves to be five point Calvinists five point not three point or anything like that or anything less in this whole portion 29% of recent seminary graduates would identify themselves in that particular way and in fact over 60% of graduates in one of our seminaries identify themselves as five point Calvinists and this is from the baptistpress.com Oh wow. Now I think I've seen other articles and we could fact check this but I've seen something similar to like the 10% five point but I think if it was like three point it was like almost half like I think like almost half of the Southern Baptist convention would say they're Calvinist to some degree some shade or or form or fashion but the five point is really extreme there's a particular university Southern Baptist Theological Seminary it's in Kentucky that is pumping out five point Calvinists for sure and you know these people that are five point I don't even think they're saved personally you know they're so screwed up on works and what it takes to even be saved you know what do you think about these five point Calvinists Ben I would agree I don't think it becomes a salvation issue when you get into the lordship stuff you get into the lordship salvation looking at people's lifestyle and determining that they don't have enough works to get to heaven that's really what it comes down to because in their mind they would say that you would have to endure to the end to be saved that is a prerequisite for salvation is did you endure to the end I would agree if we're just simply talking about did you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ did you become an atheist then you were never saved to begin with if you became an atheist or a Muslim or something like that but what they mean by that is did you continue to have works to the end of your life did you keep serving God did you keep going to church to the end of your life and you know I get that people can be mixed up on that and I'm not trying to throw all of them into hell like I understand that people can think that well there's going to be some change but if you really pin them down if you ask them well if all I did was believe in Jesus but didn't do the works would I go to heaven they would say yes but a lot of these people that are crossing the line of damnable heresy would respond absolutely not if you don't have the works you're not saved and that's kind of where I would draw the line so I want to be careful with that I don't want people to think that I'm just throwing everybody into hell who's slightly off on the works as evidence doctrine but there is a line and I think that Ed Listen Litten excuse me he crossed it for sure well and you know you have a lot of five-point Calvinists they'll kind of say things like I didn't even believe like they'll say you know you don't even believe to get saved God just chooses you he just elects you and then he gives you this faith and or they'll say that believing is a work I've even heard them try to say like well that's stupid believing in Jesus is a work right comfort says that so then you obviously have to have works to be saved you have people talking about this radical change too or you're you know you just everything's completely different I think we have a clip on that from David Platt where he kind of describes well yeah he uses a horrible analogy yeah the gospel have you heard of this David Platt Robert no I've never heard of him I think he was the president of the international missions board for the SBC at one point an author am I right about did he write something yeah I think he wrote a book called radical I think he has a couple books maybe he's a pastor of a church in Alabama which I don't know how you how do you feel about Alabama you're in Florida is there like a rivalry there or something I mean I lived there for like a year and my grandparents were there since I don't have any problems so it's kind of soft what about you is it is Alabama Florida is it no I like Alabama okay I don't get into the whole can we play the David Platt clip real quick I think I think Robert can hear it too video or whatever came on my face but it was just blank stage and five ten fifteen minutes go by you're sitting there and it's it's awkward and then all of a sudden I come running out on stage and I say I'm sorry I'm here late I was kind of out of breath I was coming over here today driving over here on the interstate and I had a flat tire and got out and fixed the flat tire but I accidentally stepped out into the middle of the interstate and this this Mack truck hit me going head on and it hurt but but I got up and uh finished fixing the tire and got back in the car and drove so I apologized for being late now if this was the story I would I would tell I told you then you would you know one of two things either number one I'm lying or number two I am very deceived and you know that because when somebody gets hit by a Mack truck they look they look different than they did before it's not funny based on that reality I'm pretty sure I'm on safe ground and saying that when a person comes face to face with God and the flesh the savior king and sovereign lord and he reaches down into your heart and saves you from the clutches of sin and self you're going to look different you're going to look really different everything changes when you follow this king someone put in the comments when did David talk or Daniel Tosh get called to preach he does kind of remind me of Tosh 2.0 or whatever sorry I think Robert you couldn't hear that clip but I'll kind of break it down are you still on the line with us yeah okay so basically David Platt gets up and he says you know what if I got hit by a Mack truck I think I would look different and and if I walked in here and I said I just got hit by a Mack truck 15 minutes ago on the highway you know and I had no scrapes or bruises or I looked the exact same you wouldn't believe me you'd think I was lying and he relates that to the gospel saying that if you get saved you're just going to look so different it's going to be so obvious that you know basically had God save you that you couldn't lie about it like it's just too it's just too apparent but here's the thing what's so stupid about this analogy is the fact that there has to be saved people in the world okay number one and number two yeah I guarantee if I walked into any store any business on this planet and someone had just got hit by a Mack truck 15 minutes ago which of course they'd be a flattened pancake they wouldn't even be able to stand there I would be able to tell but you know what I've never seen somebody in my entire life that I looked at him and thought wow that person's been hit by a Mack truck of the gospel I mean have you ever seen someone and they're just glowing with salvation I mean they're just so physically evident their salvation the same as someone having been smashed by a giant semi truck going 70 miles an hour on the highway 90 if you're in Texas and it's just like of course not I mean isn't this the dumbest analogy you could possibly give even outside of the theological ramifications just the fact that I've never seen someone that looks that much different and how does he look different wearing his pink little collar t-shirt or whatever collared shirt or whatever looking like a college frat boy or something like that are we supposed to believe he's just this separated gospel anointed man of God he looks like he just came from a frat party yeah and I'm supposed to think like this guy's been hit by a Mack truck of the gospel of Jesus Christ his whiny little pathetic analogy doesn't work on me I can't believe other people fall for this junk well if you get hit by a Mack truck your your like your body's destroyed like I don't even understand the point like it's a change for the worse it's not a change for the better you come up with a better analogy if you're trying to say that it's a change for the better but it's like this fake sort of piety he has this he has this piety about him he pedestalizes himself by teaching this doctrine almost implying that well he's the standard he really changed he really is saved because he changed he repented of all his sins it's like well hold on a minute when did the flesh get saved it's your soul and your spirit that goes to heaven the reason why the flesh still has blemishes it goes into the ground eventually it's because it's not the flesh that gets saved the flesh goes into the ground the flesh sins the flesh is the old man maybe we just can't see it oh yeah I mean there you go hey Robert have you seen anybody hit with a Mack truck of the gospel no most people I've seen get saved for the most part they don't even like go to church or anything it's like oh well that's a relief they say that they believe and you know that's about it now people who go to church you know maybe they maybe they were more convicted to go and do that but it's it's you still have free will it's still like it's not batteries included you have to actually force yourself to do it right walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh yeah what analogy in the bible though likens salvation to death by truck you know like you know the bible talks about being born again which is like a positive thing getting a life you know being risen from the dead like everything in the bible is like this positive he likens the gospel into getting hit by a semi truck yeah I've never heard anybody say that was a positive thing no it's never thirsting again never hungering again it's always this positive thing drinking water why do they always have to come up with these stupid analogies and then it's like an anvil falling on dying dying get you know shooting animals or you know another you know this one right here with this guy getting run over by a Mack truck false prophets tend to come up with the worst analogies on salvation it's a common denominator between all of them and Platt is no different well it's only gonna reach the prideful who said you know what that is me I was just I was just living this life of sin despair and now I'm just it's like a Mack truck of repenting of sin and I'm just so holy and so righteous now I mean that's what you'd have to believe about yourself to even kind of fall for this stupid narrative or or that I guess you see that and of course you know I'm not taking away from the fact that some people do make radical changes in their life you know praise the Lord if someone was on drugs or living a life of fornication or basically a deadbeat and now they're like working hard and serving God and and basically making a 180 and of course that can happen and we hope that it always happens but it would be just asinine to suggest that that always happens or we see something and of course using this over the top example of something that's so obvious you couldn't even deny it with your eyes and then you know likening that onto salvation which is not a physical thing anyways it's a spiritual thing so you know it really it's really just frustrating how many people fall for this stuff hook line and sinker pastor you know what happened to me when I got saved I woke up out of bed the next morning I started singing some hymns real loud I went soul winning for three or four hours I read my Bible for another six hours I went to church that evening I read my Bible another four hours afterward I went home went to bed woke up the next morning and started the process all over again is that not lordship salvation I mean I I certainly don't remember myself that much detail but you know obviously there's been people in our churches that have made radical transformations like that and yet they still believe salvation is as free as you know air as free as oxygen while it's still free I don't know if it's free everywhere in the world anymore but I was trying to like thinking of something what else is what's more free than oxygen I mean oxygen is the only thing left these days that's free with today's economy I was ripping off a pastor sermon there the point I'm trying to make is it sounds ridiculous I just I got saved and I woke up started singing hymns it's like that's basically what they're saying obviously I'm exaggerating but that's essentially the idea is you get up out of you know you're saved and then you just all of a sudden the works come automatically when it's work right it takes your free will it takes you deciding not to yield to the flesh and you know the people who teach this doctrine they come off as so prideful so prideful well Robert I really appreciate you sharing that information with us I know you wanted to bring up the Calvinist slant was there something more you wanted to say about Calvinism no I mainly wanted to I have a quick quote from Matthew 7 and this is usually where they'll kind of talk about this whole you know the fruit of the spirit is how you judge everything but you know it's worth knowing this is for something specifically for false prophets and it's also it's got a double you know a double meaning here where it's also helpful as you would see when I read it so I'll just do that really quick it says beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves you shall know them by their fruits you may gather grapes of forns or figs figs of thistles even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit every tree must bringeth bringeth not forth good fruit is he sewn down and cast into the fire wherefore by the fruits you shall know them so you know a false prophet by the fruits and my question is what is the fruit of the southern baptist dimension you know it's their soul winning where is their bible where is their great doctrine and their preaching you don't really get any of that and additionally that's the application you identify a false prophet you don't identify just some random Joe Schmo to check if he's saved by the fruit and so well I definitely agree with your sentiments there and you know at least it's encouraging to know there's still some people in the southern baptist that are saved they still could get someone saved and you know I think that some of these southern baptist churches are still getting you know some of their children saved and maybe they're reaching new people every once in a while getting them saved and I don't want people to think that you have to be an independent baptist to get someone saved but it just feels like there's a lot of tears in the wheat of the southern baptist convention a lot of people are mixing in works and they're choking the handful of good preachers in those denominations and really our call is to take that guy that got you saved and say look why don't you leave the southern baptist convention get a king james bible start soul winning and get more people saved you know why didn't that light a fire under this guy that basically you have robert fall into his lap saying sirs what must I do to be saved like wouldn't you think wow that was actually pretty cool maybe I should try that with someone else or is it this Calvinist doctrine though that basically suggests the only people that are going to get saved are like robert where they basically are coming and begging for you to get saved but I would almost venture that that guy has only had a handful of people that are like robert coming and begging for salvation and you know the bible says in roman chapter number 10 that he was found of them that sought me not you know it's important to also go and find people that weren't ever going to knock your door not find you and ask you about salvation but rather you confront them with the gospel are you still going to the cbc church or you found like a better church in your area or oh I'm going to a wonderful old ife church you know lots of soul winning and all that and so you know I love my church so I'm going to right now do you want to you want to plug your church so somebody in the area can find it um I'm not sure if they'd really want to be associated with you I just don't want to bring I understand that it's okay it's all right yeah well you know what maybe if you find robert on the internet and you're in florida maybe you can hit him up and uh you know you guys can uh go soul winning together um there's definitely a lot of good churches out there and uh you know we don't want to we don't want people to just feel like you have to go to one church to be saved or a specific church to be saved but you know what you need to still get that baptist bias and praise the lord you got a church out there that's going soul winning it's firing you up I'm sure you're also learning a lot more too what would you say about just overall doctrine uh from this church versus your southern baptist church it's not even comparable you know the first time that I ever heard any preaching on jobe and elijah very major characters was actually in 20 like 21 from pastor anderson and so then I didn't learn about any of those characters growing up even though I went to church you know from 9 to you know 19 and so it just shows you how weak these people are in the doctrine and all the stories it's just they stick to the book of john they stick to the new testament when there's these great and wonderful characters you know besides david and goliath and the old testament yeah well we really appreciate you being on here brother robert and god bless you out there keep keeps going soul winning it's really encouraging to hear that your family got saved uh that you care enough and and uh that you also care about strangers out there i hope that your story can motivate other people to share the gospel with their family confront them and just even confront strangers amen thank you to that god bless you have a good night so ben we've covered a lot of topics is there is there another one that you kind of had that you wanted us to address i know we're we've been on the we've been doing the show for a little while now so i want to make sure if we had something else that's kind of important well this is not obviously one of the fundamentals of the faith or anything like that but we do have the southern baptist convention softening their stance on the sodomites big time and we can play that clip and kind of talk about it a little bit here before we round things out we do have a couple other callers we need to get to but uh let's go ahead and if you want to play well i i want to bring up some of these crazy examples of the southern baptist because i know he said the guy was saved yeah but there's definitely ones that are not saved and and some even heretics can we talk about some of them too yeah let's do it so who do you got well i think some people get surprised by this but there's a guy in the dallas forward area his name is ed young and he has a really large church so not not every southern baptist church is is going to say baptist on the name of the church is called fellowship church so just on the surface like how would you know it's like a you know not a nom or something else or even as a southern baptist but if you look it up it says it's affiliated with the southern baptist convention ed young is a pastor and he ended up writing a book and then having this like bizarre event at his church and you know he called it sexperiment which i don't even it's kind of a gross name to even have with this guy but he had this like event where he went on the top of his church for 24 hours with his wife to do like this thing called a bed-in and it was a live streamed event i don't even know what i don't even want to know some kind of perverted display on the rooftop to try and talk about bedroom things which you know the by sometimes this is what i find pastors of these these churches do is they say oh the bible you know and people don't talk a lot about this because they don't have the courage to you know it's just because it's not appropriate yeah why would i want to bring up something the bible doesn't go into great detail about because you know what a man when he gets married to a woman they can figure those things out you know they don't need you to come give them some kind of a experiment it's just we try and and and tell them what to do i mean that's what the world does is try to pervert the bedroom you know marriage is honorable and all and the bed undefiled but whoremongers and adulterers god will judge what the bible says so you know whatever's going on in the marriage bedroom is is fine the bible says it's great and i'm pretty sure men and women have been figuring out there's like seven billion people on the planet i i think that they figured it out i don't think that we have to uh have ed young tell us what to do here but of course worldly people do yeah they're so obsessed with this stuff because you know there's no satisfaction outside of marriage yeah and then when they want to talk about bedroom even some you know couples these worldly couples will do this you hear it at work sometimes talking about the bedroom hey i have an idea leave that to the bedroom leave that stuff behind closed doors i don't need to hear about it yeah the bible says it's a shame to speak of those things which are done of them in secret so like there's a lot of evil things that are being done in secret that shouldn't be exposed with the the world's exposing them and then we have pastors doing this and the bible says to abstain from all appearance of evil you know there's a person in the bible that does something like this and i'm not saying it's the exact same but it's similar where absalom takes over the kingdom from david and then in front of all israel sets this tent where he's having relations with david's wives and basically just shaming himself and their entire nation the word of god david i mean just like a complete embarrassment to everyone and what an embarrassment to texas and the dallas worth area his church his wife himself to do this weird bizarre thing but look this is coming this is the fruit of the southern baptist convention where they literally have people like ed young they have other people like uh the david flat we brought up we have matt chandler's in this area he's a big name we have stephen furtick the guy who literally got up and said i am god almighty and i don't know how people still defend that i saw somebody we made a little clip of one of his songs gyra you know gyra i don't know it's it's a bizarre song that they made where you know they're they're basically taking half of god's name instead of jehovah gyra they just shortened it to gyra because i guess it's slang or something um they make this song we we made a little clip about this and we get comments on this like every day like i get comments every single day and people are defending this and they said oh stephen furtick was saying that's what god says to us that i am god almighty but if you listen to that clip it doesn't feel that way or seem that way in any shape or form that he's saying oh this is what god says he's just making a bunch of i statements about himself and then just throws in like i am god almighty on top of that i mean how is that people are gonna come up with all kinds of excuses for their favorite pastor for their favorite preacher you look at the clip it's it's in context it's obvious what he's trying to say it's regardless even if that's what his intention was it sounds evil it sounds horrifying why even utter a statement like that when the preceding statements were about yourself so i don't buy that excuse whatsoever i was shocked to know that stephen furtick is part of a southern baptist convention church an spc church a lot of these names again they take the the name baptist out of the church name so you have to google them to even find out that there's elevation church elevation church just sounds like a liberal non-denom or like a pentecostal or something right what do you think is the motivation behind that removing the word baptist obviously you think about it this way i'm actually okay with it because i don't want them to defile the baptist name anyway but what do you think their motivation is behind that i think that they're just getting away from baptist doctrine and they're they don't want the stigma of someone who actually believes that salvation is important enough to make a big deal about it and you know i would be fine if the southern baptist convention just wants to call the southern slavery convention or whatever you know they want to call it i mean their home and christian standard bible added the word slave or changed the word servant to slave updated it from two times in the king james to three hundred and fourteen times literally it's like that's bizarre like why you would have they love the word slave and i've heard some people say like that's kind of what it means but you know it really to me falls apart when you think about their logic because their logic is always like well we want to constantly update the bible to be with the modern times what person has any positive connotation with the word slave in 2022 america i mean it's become the most stigmatized word it in this you know race baiting culture that we live in i mean to say that you want to have a bible that has the word slave and it's well done the good and faithful slave you know that's a completely different ring to it than servant yeah and they're making out the christian life in that bible it makes out the christian life to be slavery well if you believe in calvinism is it how is it not slavery when it's just got and it's just like you will get saved you know and you will not get saved and it's like but it's kind of contradictory how can you be a good slave when you're not even in control when you're not even the driver seat i mean you did nothing everything was it you're just a robot just good robot you know really i mean you don't get you don't like say like good computer you pretty much only get mad at your computer when it screws up because you just expect it to work all the time because it's a computer it's a robot you know you don't inspect flaws or whatever and and so this calvinistic doctrine coming from the southern baptist convention where they just believe everybody's a puppet on god's fingers how could you even good puppet oh such a good puppet he always does exactly what i want him to do i mean this makes no sense can you imagine someone petting their little puppet it's like they carry it around like this one's a good pup this is a bad puppet you know this puppet does it doesn't i mean you would think this guy is a psychopath pervert or something exactly you know and that's the way they dress up god you know as opposed to literally having a free will where people choose the lord they accept as free gift of salvation and then out of love in their hearts they actually serve god rather than being just a slave to this irresistible grace nonsense that they teach and you know i don't want to get too far off on that because we could just literally kick this can forever you know if you can't leave the southern baptist convention after you see their doctrinal statement on salvation i don't think anything's going to change your mind but i know we have a couple more callers i think we have a john from north carolina he grew up in the southern baptist convention i just like the the name of that there are the sound of that name john yes me too in fact i really like that name john baptist we got john on the line can you say hello yep i'm here hello how's it going how you doing john doing well before i get into all that i wanted to go back to your uh mac truck analogy from a few minutes ago yeah let's do it yeah so i was a cop for 12 years and unfortunately i had to deal with all grades of fatalities and just the most horrendous injuries and everything involving traffic accidents and people getting run over and you know you're standing there and it never occurred to me to say well this body laying here reminds me of somebody who just got saved you know yeah i mean have you ever seen someone it's just the worst that looked physically devastated like that and you thought oh salvation right yeah exactly that's the total opposite though yeah so um yeah i just want to throw that out there that i thought that was just one of the weirder things i've heard it's it's eternal life it's like another giving people life you know it's the it's a new birth it's not getting run over by a truck it's not getting killed they make it into death yeah and it's not like you know i think we get desensitized by television or whatever it's so like if you've never seen it up close and personal and experienced that you know yeah i don't ever choose to use that analogy you know exactly i wouldn't want anybody else to have to see it either it's you know yeah and something to be desired just to be again to be fair to the guy even though you know he is who he is what he's trying to say is well when you get hit by a mag truck you change you get disfigured or whatever you get injured so therefore the gospel ought to change you as well it's obviously idiotic it's a horrible analogy but also and i think more important than that it's theologically flawed in the sense that he's teaching the lordship works as evidence in order for you to be declared as saved but go ahead so you grew up southern baptist right tell us about that yeah so um i got saved when i was in the fourth grade i had been attending a southern baptist church all along i think the way my family initially got into the church was a neighbor had invited us to attend with them but anyway we went to uh like a a play or dramatization that was put on by a local um i guess you'd call it a non-denomination church it was called heavens gate and hell's flames yeah i've like i went to the same thing kind of oh yeah so it's like a traveling thing i think yeah at the end of it all i really walked away it was like i don't want to go to hell i went down to the front at the end of the play and i think you know we prayed a prayer without really understanding too much but um thank god my parents had the wherewithal i want to say well you know jonathan wants to get saved so let's get the preacher down here to speak with him about it so the next night the preacher came over and took the bible and you know led me to the lord um and so like i said that was fourth grade and about a year probably a year and a half later that pastor left the church like retired um and going all through this time frame to the best of my memory as a small child we were king james only you know all i ever heard was the king james bible and then we got a new preacher in and things so i kind of lived through this gradual change of the southern baptist convention becoming more and more liberal yeah um got we got to middle school and they hired a um a new youth pastor and he was affiliated with the um ethics and religious liberty commission have you guys ever heard of that i've never heard of that it's a it's a branch of the southern baptist convention um i had to google it while i was on hold to make sure i got the name right but it says here the public policy arm of the southern baptist convention so our new youth pastor was like dually employed by that group and our church at the same time and with the new pastor that came in after the one that i got saved under all of a sudden it's like the niv kind of started trickling in um like for instance you know when i graduated high school they gave everybody a gift and i got an niv bible um that were they using a different version before that it seemed like it would kind of ebb and flow i guess you know like it was not a hard and fast rolling and we went like i vividly remember moving away from the hymnal and into like the more modern and contemporary music where chris tomlin the choir singing yeah you gotta there's like a tape deck in the back and they hit play and there's somebody up front you know singing a solo michael w smith chris tomlin that kind of stuff or what was it toby mack and so yeah all the all the like the 90s christian contemporary music i guess the kind of music where a muslim can listen to it and not get offended because there's no actual dark gods and awesome or anything yeah my god a muslim a jew could go listen to that no problem because there isn't any doctrine in the songs so anybody who just believes in a god of some sort could listen to those songs and enjoy them as a matter of fact you know talking about music i remember one of the um because it was kind of a big deal when the youth pastor got up to preach a sermon or whatever and uh what was the song from the 90s it was like hey now you're a rock star you remember that hey now you're a rock star get your game play because i'm not lonely like this individual i can't sing it but i know what you're talking about sorry for my butchering is that what you're talking about yeah that's the one but the the youth minister took the lyrics to the song and like morphed it somehow into like a salvation type message or whatever which i mean being a teenage kid and this is what you've always heard i mean i thought that was i thought the song was lame but i was like okay cool whatever you know um yeah i think it's smash mouth i don't even know yeah okay i'm dating myself and um i think the next pastor that came in just like went full bore niv um i think years later speaking with people who grew up in the church as well was like yeah the new pastor like threatened you know because there's like a board of deacons or whatever like threatened the board of deacons that he would quit if they tried to make him be king james only so they backed off of it because they didn't want to lose the new pastor yeah so um wow that was like that was from 19 early 90s through the early 2000s when i went away to college i just kind of got out of it and was doing whatever until um i stumbled across pastor anderson on the internet and figured out what an independent fundamentalist church even is and got plugged into one of those so describe the differences you know you you said you you finally it sounds like you kind of just quit church is that fair to say i'm just trying to pretty much yeah but then you found a fundamental baptist church my wife was like wanting to push me into like you need to get back in church and i was like which i was saying the entire time like right i had other people like as a like as a backslidden christian i can't believe you're doing such and such do you think god will let you in the heaven right now doing well of course he would i'm saved i mean i'm yeah i'll admit that this is not the right thing to be doing but it's not i'm not unsaved all of a sudden don't you know so i was always straight and clear on that thank god they got the pastor to get me saved you know the day after that play or whatever because it was just you know i was saved i just i just understood it and went with it you know it was never he's like he's like the drunk guy rebuking ray comfort like no i'm saved that's one of the most hilarious clips ever it's i'm not saying you were drunk but i'm just saying like you're funny this guy's just like living a kind of a you know a worldly life but he's like but i'm saying yeah it's because you have these people living a worldly life like you mentioned and yet they're more doctrinally sound than the supposed preacher who makes a living going around and bullhorning people on the street etc so it's sort of comical when you think about it that way but the reality is we don't doubt someone's salvation based on their lifestyle right i mean that's not if you believe salvation by faith yeah if you believe salvation's by faith you don't doubt somebody's salvation because they're backslidden or anything like that the occasion to doubt somebody's salvation is if they're in a damnable heresy if all of a sudden they don't believe the deity of christ if all of a sudden they believe a work salvation or they deny eternal security vehemently things like that but not how someone's living and it's unfortunate that she had to go through that so you got into this church you know eventually and what happened then is do you notice any differences between the churches sure well for one you know like i had tried to give the gospel to some people like growing up and i didn't know how because we were never taught and so i would always just kind of paraphrase a general outline of what the gospel kind of is you know without relying on strict bible verses um yeah and i can remember two instances in particular two different guys and i'm like paraphrasing stuff to them and they're like okay you know and the second one is a good friend of mine gave him the paraphrase got more serious into it and learned more came back to him year about a year later and and used the king james bible and went through it and he got saved you know so it's like oh okay like this is how it's done and this is like this is the power of the gospel at work yes whereas my words over here that i was trying to you know put it to my language didn't get it done well and it could have sowed a seed but you want to get the job done right right um other differences uh the music um you're not singing smash mouth at your fundamental baptist church or what no no no no that's funny uh there was a that went on um like at the beginning it was not that different it was kind of what i wanted to highlight you know early on when i was a small child and this may be some of it chalked it up to i was a little kid and didn't know any better yeah but from what i do remember i don't see a stark contrast versus when i grew up and if i were to go you know my parents continued going through the church and so a couple of years ago it was like uh christmas fell on a sunday so we went and it was a big difference yeah uh as an adult i could tell the difference well and what you're describing you're you're basically saying the fundamental baptist church today is not much different than the church you were as in as a child but now that you've grown up you you notice that the southern baptist church has changed a lot whereas the fundamental baptist church kind of seems like church used to be and uh how they've kind of departed from where they used to stand yeah it would be interesting if you could go back and compare in the early 90s the ifb to what it is now and say well has it become water down it hasn't shifted to what the southern baptist used to be you know so you know 10, 15, 20 years should we be worried you know is the the ifb gonna turn into what we're seeing now with the southern baptist so we better you know wake up and take heat and and keep that from happening you know amen well and i of course you know sometimes you paint with a broad brush you know it would probably be a little bit individualistic on on the church some churches could have gotten better worse um it's probably hard to say for sure just across the board but one thing that i because i think a lot of independent churches are still king james only but i know some of them have stopped being king james only so that would be an obvious change and i think a lot of them used to be more soul winning like more going out evangelizing and a lot of them have kind of either scaled back or reduced the level of soul winning i think some of them even incorporating some of the more contemporary music so i think those are the things that we see and i think that's an interesting parallel it's almost like the a lot of these independent baptist churches are kind of like the republicans where they're they're not necessarily staying the same they're just staying a couple steps behind the liberals whereas the sbc's like the democrat just going off the deep end and the independent baptist kind of republicans just kind of staying a few steps behind but both changing and going in the wrong direction um and and so i think um and and hopefully we can kind of turn the tide and and wake some people up and and try to stay true to biblical doctrines obviously i'm not against updating things or creating new songs per se but uh i'm not gonna take smash mouth and turn it into a hymn it does remind me of psalm 58 but you know i think it's a little bit different too yeah that's not be what they're referring to with their bad name or whatever but that is funny well thanks for your testimony there yeah thanks so much for calling in robert robert who is it john isn't it i'm sorry i got i got confused how can i forget john i don't know john the baptist okay terrible well thanks so much for calling in brother john and uh we really appreciate your testimony uh i hope you have a good evening hope you keep soul winning and uh get that other friend you got one of your friends say let's get the other one saved yep all right we'll be praying for him well god bless we'll pray for your friend and uh you have a good night well you brought up in this call about them kind of you know the sbc and and you know what being watered down there's a clip i wanted to play i was gonna play this earlier and if you we can the production team could find it ed litten agrees with sodomite host lecturing christians for being hateful this was an msnbc interview that ed litten did and uh if we can get that give me a thumbs up when it's queued i want to set this up so ed litten does an interview with msnbc the msnbc host essentially attacks christians for being supposedly hateful he's on the air burying christians talking about how they're hateful talking about how they're so mean and everything and ed litten here's how he responded to that here's the clip way too many christians who express zero gentleness and zero respect when talking to people who don't share their views whether it's atheists agnostics gay people like myself or just people who don't share their politics and that is not biblical that is not scriptural that is not what the bible teaches believers to do before i have to let you go what do you plan to do as the president of the southern baptist convention to make people of faith more palatable less contemptible and maybe a little more christ-like in the way they deal with the rest of the world well let me say this first of all you're right and tragically as part of the the whole culture seems to be struggling with giving honor and respect i respect you because god created you i respect you because jesus paid a high price to redeem you i respect you because the word of god teaches me to respect you and to honor you and then the fact is we're not seeing we're seeing a breakdown in our culture which even impacts our churches sometimes but i will say this this people called southern baptists are a good people when when i won last week people who voted against me came up very kindly and said i didn't vote for you but i love you in christ and i will pray for you i think again the french is loud right now in our culture on every level and what it means is we have to practice exactly what you're holding us accountable to and that is what the word of god says pastor ed linton is the new president of the southern baptist convention wow i'm gonna puke that was disgusting and that was gross how how does this think about the logic here for a second this guy is literally saying he's a filthy disgusting abominable reprobate he's saying like i'm a disgusting sodomite i do the most abominable act that the bible describes people doing and then i want to lecture this southern baptist president on how christians are not christ-like like you're the epitome of not being christ-like you're the epitome of of what's unholy and unrighteous and wicked as hell and then you have the gall to try and lecture people on not being christ-like or being a christian he doesn't know anything about being a christian or what the bible teaches otherwise he wouldn't have a christian or what the bible teaches otherwise he wouldn't have the disgusting filthy affections that he has romans one makes it abundantly clear this guy hates god this guy has rejected god he's been given over to a reprobate mind why would ed litten then sit here and allow this guy to pontificate about how much more christian and christ-like he is this msnbc host than christians that you know are not tolerant and hateful and they don't like certain things it's like he's not gonna like god because god's pretty hateful towards people that are wicked the bible says that he abhors the bloody and deceitful man i mean the bible says that he's angry with the wicked every day that doesn't sound like tolerance that doesn't sound like acceptance that sounds like anger that sounds like wrath i mean when god burned sada megamura how accepting and tolerant was god of uh their sodomite lifestyle ben how about zero negative you know this is the most evil grotesque abominable reprobate on television getting up thinking he has the moral high ground in the interview lecturing christians talking down to christians in the most condescending patronizing manner possible and ed litten has a chance to respond by standing for the people of god and the word of god and what are the two words he chooses to use i agree with you talking to a filthy abominable sodomite i agree with think about ed litten oh i agree with you people need to be more pal more palatable like christians being hateful not palatable disgusting pedophile reprobates that's pal that's palatable think about how much he switched the narrative i mean you've got somebody that literally has the most disgusting affections is is completely reprobate i mean these type of people are the ones that are putting on dresses and lipstick and calling themselves a woman when they're clearly a man i mean talk about a mac truck you know conversion here and yet we want to make they're they're way more palatable than these you know god-fearing christians who take their family to church and love their children and raise them then two sodomites who adopt children and abuse them and pass them around a sex ring yeah i'm describing dave rubin and his disgusting filthy criminal comrade that he calls a husband but there's no such thing because marriage between a man and a woman not between a beast and another beast well you said but he's he's conservative though oh he's a conservative dog so he's okay okay well you know conservative means nothing anymore apparently because if you think that two dudes can adopt children you you could never be considered conservative you are a complete moron you're a complete freak and and of course why would you even do an interview with this type of disgusting filthy abomination i mean oh you're so hateful pastor shelly look you know what's hateful is adopting children and then abusing them that's hateful and that's what these people are doing you know what's not hateful is hating the pedophile and not tolerating the pedophile and not tolerating disgusting and filthy wicked abominations that the bible condemns with the death penalty in leviticus 2013 i didn't make that up that's what the bible says uh is that make god not accepting i mean at what point are we gonna just basically say that god has the problem here if we're gonna say that those laws aren't accepting and intolerant and you know we need to make it more palatable let's get a palatable bible you know yeah that takes out everything that's negative no no no hard versus oh because of the poor little son of mine oh it feels so bad we need to make the bible less mean for them that's pretty convincing ben i feel like you feel pretty sad yeah i obviously i think you could tell you know the bible says if a man also lie with mankind as he lies with a woman both of them have committed an abomination they shall surely be put to death their blood shall be upon them in romans 1 this is reiterated who knowing the judgment of god that they which commit such things are worthy of death it should come as no surprise though that ed lidden would respond to the accusations made by an open sodomite about christianity and christians and believers in general the way he did because this is the same man who got up and said that he's actually changed his view on romans chapter 1 and characterized the abomination of sodomy as something that god whispers in comparison to other sins in an attempt to downplay the sin and downplay you know what it means to be a homo to be a sodomite and how evil and how severe it is in the eyes of god so it should come as no surprise that that's how he conducted himself in the interview a compromising spineless coward the president currently of the sbc but it's not like jd greer was much better talking about how christians should be the friends of the quote lgbt community which is something you had a response to in a documentary called the sodomite deception which i would highly recommend for those of you who want to get red pilled on this issue or or red evicted or evicted because of this issue sodomite deception dot com because this could be jarring to a first time listener and so just go hear us out don't just dismiss what we're saying right now as hateful and bigoted and all the rest of it why do you have to say that? why can't you just be sweet? why can't you be sweet to a child rapist? why can't you just love the pedophile? no because we have a brain in our head and because we love the lord and we love children don't come at us with your leftist buzzwords just simply go to sodomite deception dot com and you'll see why we are reacting the way that we are to this compromiser ed litten pastor shelly where do you want to steer us next? we still have a lot of colors i don't think we're going to get to all of our colors but i do want to go to another one i think we have brother richard on the line and he can share some of the experiences with the SBC the SBC is definitely becoming very accepting of the LGBT whereas in the past they weren't like you said with the JD Greer i think we got richard on the line can you hear us richard? yes i can thanks for calling in, how's it going? oh it's going great hello richard hi i'm richard i'm richard i'm richard i'm richard i'm richard i'm richard i'm richard hello richard hey brother ban now have you been to a southern baptist church? do you have some experience with this? i have, i was raised missionary baptist the similar situation of growing up in a church that was a lot like an IFB church becoming watered down through the years and i got even more watered down in college and went to a couple of different IFB churches but the latest one, the one that really made me want to call, the last one i was at i was there for my wife and i were there for maybe 3 years 2 or 3 before i started listening to pastor anderson and ran but we had an anniversary service and they had several past members come and they would talk and give their testimonies and everything else and they got to a point and they said well we have one of our, probably our most famous member he can't join us today but he wanted to give us a video message so they put it up on the huge screen and it was bill clinton oh great! bill clinton? the rapist! but hey the hcsp condones that so that's okay you have to marry the girl if you force her carnal, the democrat baptist go on yes so i mean it was you know he his speech was about as watered down as you would expect he hasn't darkened the door of any church in a couple of decades probably but i had not realized that he was technically a member of that church when we went there and oddly enough nearly everyone in the congregation applauded when he was done oh man well i mean of course that's how yeah that doesn't surprise me it had a good point but yeah it was it was very watered down he didn't finish his speech like i did not have sexual relations with that woman and hillary clinton didn't have textual relations with those private email servers come on give me a pity laugh at least thank you that was good enough for me we just need a laugh track so this was a southern baptist church bill clinton's an active member or like was a member he's technically still on the at that time was technically still on the rolls there because you know they don't ever well you don't want to take that name off just because you don't of course after you commit adultery in the oval office do you still get church disciplined or are you still on the rolls oh man i mean how does that work he said he didn't do it he said he didn't do it it doesn't count that's true and that is the problem with many churches like that their church discipline just consists of taking someone off the rolls they're not banished from going yeah he probably didn't show up i mean i'm assuming you know no he's never been back i'm sure that's funny so now in this church did they what bible version did they use they used the new king james okay i never got into any of the the other false versions i was misled early on on the new king james so i kind of used it for a little while i was okay with it i always still preferred the king james yeah well you know again people get led astray by the name new king james it's really the new king it's the king james in name only because and again it claims to use the traditional text of the new testament the texas receptive it claims to be translated from the masoretic text but in reality it puts footnotes in there that casts doubt on scores of scriptures and it deviates from the underlying texts when it changes the word of god and agrees with the holman christian standard bible in multiple places including making words like boat and prince more difficult and changes matthew 714 first corithians 1 18 those salvation verses those doctrine those verses about salvation i should say and turns them into works salvation including romans chapter 11 but a lot of people get led astray by the new king james just because of the name of it thinking oh all it does is modernize the archaic language when in reality it actually changes essential doctrines of the faith and casts doubt on many others as well through the footnotes that tell you that they're getting the footnote from nesley allen text and these other you know corrupt manuscripts that's right i actually heard your sermon was it this past sunday about that the new king james nice was it a good sermon or you know should people check it it was pretty good it was pretty good you got it you got a listener but i i figure you know on the view i have the same experience we know brother brother richard here is at least one of those so well that would make it bumped off of it and starting back hey listen hey do me a favor but go go in there hit f5 20 more times or something all right so it looks a little less but yeah leave a comment or something get the algorithm going this is not me this is not richard this is a good sermon that was actually what won me over to the king james only position finally was that once i started investigating i took my king james and read along while he was reading from the new king james yeah right and it was it was a night and day well it's it's kind of it was just silly right king james in name only kind of i said that in the sermon there was you could hear a pin drop in the church like no one laughed and i just awkwardly said all right moving on well i don't yeah no one really laughed here either so no one laughed here i got to work on my comedy maybe sometimes when a joke doesn't land you don't retell it that's true you don't retell it you just you just realize like oh okay it's okay i don't know there's comedians that have made a career out of that so yeah cnn terrible joke yes me and brandon from pure words thought it was funny so let's go brandon all right yeah i like that tagline it's kind of got a ring to it you maybe it'll go viral let's go brandon maybe you can get president of biden to say it so back to the southern baptist convention i don't know how we got off on that my bad did what else uh do you think your pastor was even saved at this church that you're going to uh that oh i'm not going there anymore uh he he i i think he might have been uh when he would create when he would preach on salvation type messages what he said was generally very good uh he took his heart of a stand as i've seen anybody recently from the southern baptist convention on against calvinism that's good so there there was definitely some good things i kind of got the impression that the church was so large that he was under pressure to not run anyone off yeah uh and to keep things a little watered down we did have some that definitely weren't saved one of the assistant pastors a couple years after we left got got caught fornicating with someone in the church or committing adultery with someone in the church who was married oh man uh which you know that's you got that bill that bill that bill clinton spirit apparently yeah that's right you know you you let one person in and say it's okay everybody else thinks it's okay well when you got the president of the country and a member of your church that's a pretty bad example but bill clinton's a rapist well that too there's probably other issues that he's got and a murderer that has nothing to do with the southern baptist convention but thanks ben how many conspiracy theory claims can you make in this just to scare a normal person away that would be great i honestly being from arkansas there's not any conspiracy theories it's mostly facts alright that's probably true i think there was like three women that did a live interview talking about how bill clinton had basically taken advantage of them is that not true no it is uh yes they'd have to all be liars for just no reason basically i guess broderick, aileen wellstone and others have come out public that doesn't mean that it's true but obviously he doesn't have a very good track record let's be honest that's right so do you assume bill clinton saved or what? no there's a conspiracy theory uh wouldn't that be something if it's like hillary's obviously going to hell but bill is somehow saved he's like the lot christian or something like that he's like ahab and jezebel was his wife or something like that i don't know that would be the only explanation that's a stretch i'm just joking i don't know if i have a response to that his wife is jezebel though we're going off the rails here i blame richard did you that's fine i guess then you didn't have really any did he lose members when he took a strong stand on calvinism? i didn't know it's such a huge church i couldn't really tell it was a sunday night service so you know what's a huge church mean? there was over a thousand people i don't remember the exact numbers it was very large one of the largest in the state what i've noticed is a lot of these southern baptist churches there's not all of them but a lot of them are giant i mean they do have a ton of people in their churches i don't want to say this and people get the wrong understanding but it's possible that a great church could have a lot of people but when you just consistently are the largest churches everywhere and just having tons of people you got to kind of question are they really preaching what the bible says are they really preaching on the unpopular parts of the bible here or are they just kind of pandering to the crowd and i feel like there's probably a lot of good guys that kind of eventually wake up and they realize i'm in this huge church with a big salary and if i start preaching the bible i'm going to lose all that and it's kind of this temptation to compromise that's something that you feel like maybe is prevalent or that you saw i suspected that of just my limited dealings one on one talking to the pastor and his sermon that was my suspicion obviously i couldn't confirm it but he did leave and actually go into work for the convention rather than taking another job as a pastor i see probably i got disgusted by it well now you're going to ifb churches and you're king james only i have a great church now yes well praise the lord that you're able to serve the lord where you're at and kind of realize that the fruit of some of these spc churches that they're just really just kind of dying they're not really you know holding the candlestick anymore they're not really preaching a lot of good doctrine they're just kind of as i've heard other preachers say fun centers you know they have a lot of events and concerts and maybe a lot of people but you know it's more important to have the gospel of jesus christ and have the word of god than to have a party you know i don't even want to have fellowship with a bunch of people that aren't saved or don't believe the same things or have different values my family and my family and so it's important to have unity and fellowship with the word of god as the primary glue that's bringing people together and how about this and i don't think i've asked some of our callers but what would you say just on your own personal emotional level like do you feel like you're happier even going to these ifb churches versus the spc churches absolutely some of my best friends that i have i've met in the last few years since i've started going here well how could you be happier when you're around this hateful culture exactly they're not so palatable we have to go soul winning once a week it's such a all this extra work everybody's so mean and racist yeah well thanks so much for calling in and uh hopefully you can find some other sermons out there other than brother ben that you know really you know uh cheer you up i'll just yeah thanks that's right i'll just have to come back down to steadfast again there you go praise the lord you need to do it we'd love to see ya well god bless you have a good night you too bye ben i'm not trying to give you too hard of a time i'm just trying to give you a reality check that's alright i'll take it good i need to listen to your sermon anyways just uh learn why i should hate the new king james even more apparently i heard your morning sermon was a little spicy too apparently i had a few things i needed to get off my chest well you know obviously when you talk about these topics we can get a little bit angry but you know there is a righteous anger out there and even this topic you know you brought up the sermon that i preached to anybody who goes and looks for it it's not titled southern baptist convention it's actually titled southern bastard convention and justify why why would you title it that well you know it's a pretty extreme title and people get offended by that just even the title alone but you know the word bastard is found in the king james bible and it's even in the new testament and it's specifically about people that are not actually saved it's about an illegitimate birth as it were and you know i see that as being a lot of these fake christians people that have been going to church but they're not saved and especially ones that are not going to even get saved and they're really just a bastard not a true son as the bible describes in hebrews chapter number 12 and so it's important that we realize that there is churches there is pastors there is bible versions even that i would call a bastard because they're just illegitimate you know the homo christian standard bible does not seem to have a legitimate birth it takes and corrupts a lot of those clear verses on salvation which if you don't have an incorruptible seed you'd have a corruptible seed and a corruptible seed is not going to bring forth sons it's going to bring forth bastards and so you know i clearly articulated that the southern baptist convention being birthed out of slavery that makes them kind of a bastard child in the sense that it's kind of an illegitimate birth why would you want to form a convention on the importance of slavery? Secondly it was a homo christian standard bible which has a lot of perverted verses that's not going to make a lot of saved people that's going to make a lot of bastards you have a doctrinal statement that literally teaches you have to repent meaning genuinely turn away from sins in order to be saved that's not the gospel that's going to create a lot of bastards and they have a lot of preachers like J.D. Greer, David Platt some of these ministers who are preaching a false gospel and they're not going to get people saved they're bringing in bastards and then you got Calvinism and other doctrines that have crept in the church you know creating more bastards and so I think I had five points it's kind of a quick rendition of my sermon but there's another point that I brought up that you remember I think you said you recently listened to the sermon yeah I mean no you pretty much summed it up and you talked about the holman christian standard you talked about the origins of the SPC you talked about their false daughters on salvation you covered the whole the whole deal as much as you possibly could but you did mention that a lot of the subject matter in that message could be drawn out into a completely different sermon because there was so much content because there was so much to cover and is that what you ended up doing or do you remember I really haven't I think I've mentioned the Southern Baptist a few times into the sermons but I haven't really drawn that out I I do think the title sounds harsh but I think it's appropriate given the topic of salvation which is really at the core of our disagreements with them and you know you agree the title's harsh right but like is it justified after actually listening to the sermon yeah and especially because you don't come at it immediately with some of the harsher stuff you build up to the reason why you titled your sermon the way that you did and I think by the end of it anybody who goes in skeptical as to why you would first of all use that word to describe them will realize where you're coming from when it comes to the severity of the issues that the SPC has when it comes to salvation when it comes to Bible version I mean what more important issues are there than the gospel and the Bible and they're wrong on both that doesn't mean that there aren't SPC churches that are better than others or that individuals who go there that there might be some saved people who go to those churches I'm sure there are so don't take that as me whitewashing everybody with the same brush but again those are the two most important issues when they're wrong on both then why wouldn't you refer to them as fakes frauds why wouldn't you refer to them the way you did in that sermon as the southern bastard convention exactly well and you know I think that we could talk about this for a whole lot longer if we really wanted to because there's so many other issues but I wanted to highlight some of the more important points and I think we definitely covered them you know salvation Bible version issues some of the Calvinism some of the more real liberal theology that's kind of creeping in I mean if you're not going to leave the church and find a better church based on those I don't think there would be a deal breaker but you know salvation is a deal breaker the Bible version is a deal breaker and you need to find a church that's going to stand on the gospel and not change with the times and I'm really my heart goes out to these people because they are Baptist in name you know I like that we have that camaraderie of the word Baptist but I want them to be a real Baptist not just a name only and I want you to also get the Baptist bias you know we have this show for a reason we want you to get the right perspective on the word of God and allow the word of God to dictate your feelings and emotions not you know what CNN is telling you not what your parents are telling you not just how you feel inside but what does the Bible actually say and we had a couple other call-ins I don't think we're going to get to them this evening we've got we've got a lot of content already but you know what you can call in next week we're going to have a special guest we're having Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church he's going to be on the show we're going to be talking about censorship that's going on in this world and so we'd love for you to call in next week email us chat send in messages be in the chat talk to us I think it's going to be a great episode Pastor Jimenez is a great guest and he's got a lot of experience in being censored probably one of the most censored preachers in America but he's got a great and powerful message and so we're really honored that he would take time out of his schedule to be on our podcast so please do check it out but also share this one you know you got a loved one a family member in the Southern Baptist Convention you might make them a little upset by sharing them this podcast but you know what if you get them saved it's probably all worth it and y'all you got something at the end Ben you got anything you want to share with us before we kick before we end this? I think we provided for people some very good reasons to question at the very least and at best leave the SBC we talked about the fake Bible we talked about the salvation issues we talked about some of their false prophets we talked about Ed Litton's compromising and Ed Litton's doctrines and you know that interview that he did which was really just grotesque honestly apologizing for Christians and how they view sodomites and things like that and so if you want some more information about this topic I would highly recommend Pastor Shelley's sermon The Southern Bastard Convention you can still find it on YouTube courtesy of Pure Words Baptist Church that's Pure Words Baptist Church and I want to thank the callers as well for participating and giving us their testimony and the chat room as well we had P.Wendy 1611 in there, J.S. Whoever Early Kyler Horfrost we've got Aziz Bello I saw Peter James, Pillar and Ground in there, O.S.A.S Alex Finnaw and others Saved By Grace a bunch of people in the chat participated. Pastor Thompson in the chat. I saw Pastor Aaron Thompson post a message Sure Foundation Baptist Church Maria YouTube Vancouver Washington Thank you to Maria YouTube 100 I apologize I talked over your plug Sure Foundation Baptist Church and where is that at? Vancouver Washington check him out He's actually got churches everywhere UK Canada You gotta check out Pastor Thompson He makes you feel like he's a Texan Not the Bible They say everything's bigger in Texas and Pastor Thompson will make you feel small if you see him in person Sure He's got a big heart literally and metaphorically I love the guy You gotta check out even Pastor Jimenez like I said Pastor Jimenez next week, what a show that's gonna be Pastor Jimenez and Pastor Thompson couldn't be more different physically, but you know what, they got that same spirit Spiritually And you know what, here's what I have to say about next Tuesday, be there or be lame I'm gonna be lame because I'm not gonna make it so I realize how much of a hypocrite I sound like right now, but I'll be tuning in anyway, and so I hope that you guys tune in next Tuesday 8 o'clock Central for the season finale It's gonna be our last show for the season We're gonna take a break We're gonna try to improve a few things and we're gonna come back strong with a second season of The Baptist Bias If you have ideas, you could always email them too If there's a particular show or topic you'd like us to cover, we'll definitely consider it I'm looking forward to even the next season We've done a lot of good stuff so far I've appreciated our fan base for liking and sharing our sermons or not sermons but our podcast and I hope that you'll continue to share, like these, we're gonna make some clips share the clips and tell people subscribe if you haven't subscribed and if you can even check us out on Podbean I always like to say that one Apple Podcast What else we got? Spotify and the Stitcher radio app The key word Baptist Bias The key words Baptist Bias to find us there and you'll get the high quality audio only edition of the podcast Alright, well that's gonna do it for us this evening God bless you guys for checking in Ben, why don't you sign us out Folks, for Pastor Shelley, this has been The Baptist signing us off for this week's episode of the program God bless you all and we will talk to you guys again very soon Bye