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Is it, are women more suited to being homemakers? That's the question. A simple yes or no to five three five to before. And put an F or an M at the start of your text so I know if you're male or female. Alright, kind of gives us a better idea. So yes or no to five three five to before. Call us on 1854 10494. But first of all I want to talk to Pastor Steven Anderson who's in Arizona. Good evening or good day to you Pastor. Yes good day. How you doing? How are you doing? Okay first of all how many kids have you got? I've got seven so far. Okay you're a busy man. You're a busy man. Okay all right. Okay you're a married man with seven children. You work, your wife stays at home. Would you believe her place is in the home? Absolutely. We've been married for almost 13 years and she has never had a job outside the home. I've been the only breadwinner during all that time and she stays home, takes care of the children, cooks, cleans, etc. Okay if for example she turned around to you tomorrow and she said Steven you know I'm getting a little bit of cabin fever here you know I'd like maybe to get a part-time job in one of the local schools or one of the local restaurants and you know I'd like to do something. How would you feel about that? Well I would I would definitely not allow that but honestly she would never say that. She's so busy and she gets out and about all that she wants. She would definitely not get cabin fever and she has so many responsibilities on her plate that the last thing she's looking for is something else to do because caring for seven children is a full-time job in and of itself. Well I imagine it is but even when you were when you had two children at the start of your marriage for example maybe when you had one or two children you're saying she would never do that or you would never allow her to do that. How does she feel about the fact that you would never allow her to do that? Well she agrees with me because it's what the Bible teaches and you know for thousands of years this is how people have lived where the men went out and worked and provided and and the women stayed home and kept the house and it's worked for thousands of years and this modern idea of both parties working and sticking the kids in daycare and everything is is not it's against nature it's it's not what God created us to do. Okay sorry if someone wants to give us a call they can the number is 1850 410 494 that's 1850 410 494. Stephen I'm sure you've heard the argument before that you know and you probably heard this line you know Stephen you're living in the old days you're living in the 1950s that's the way things were and I've watched some of the particularly American TV commercials you know from the 1950s where they explained how to be a good wife and make dinner for your husband and all that kind of thing but are you not moving on with the times like the rest of the world or do you believe the rest of the world is wrong? Well I believe the rest of the world's definitely wrong but to trace this back to the 1950s is ridiculous because you know I would trace it back many hundreds and thousands of years and you let me just read you a quick verse from the Bible the Bible says that they may teach the young women to be sober to love their husbands to love their children to be discreet chaste keepers at home good obedient to their own husbands that the Word of God be not blasphemed. So the Bible there says that they should be keepers at home you know housekeeping that they should guide the house it says elsewhere that's their job that's what God created them to do. We use the word obedient yeah but Stephen you use the word I know there's a slight delay on the line I apologize for that but you use the word obedient in there it almost seems like they're a pest. Well absolutely not I mean my children are obedient to me that doesn't mean that they're a pet I mean when I go to work I'm obedient to my boss at work that doesn't mean that I'm his pet there's just a chain of authority there's just a chain of command and in every area of life there are leaders and there are followers and that doesn't make them a pet it doesn't make me any less human if I follow my boss at work's instructions because he's my boss well in my home I'm the boss I'm the head of that household I'm the king of the castle and the Bible says that wives are supposed to be obedient to their own husbands. Those aren't my words I mean that's straight from the Bible. Okay what would you do if you came home one evening and say your dinner wasn't made or your wife just was wanting in the mood for making your dinner and she just said this was evil I've had a busy day look just go make your own dinner will you I can't deal with this I'm going to watch telly for a while. Well you know hopefully my wife is on the same page with me and understands what the Bible teaches but if she refused to obey then you know I would rebuke her for that I would correct her for that I would tell her that she needs to do it and I would stand my ground and you know. Okay how would you correct her for that when you say you'd rebuke her or correct her for that what just verbally. I'm just saying that I would verbally correct her and I would explain to her why biblically she needs to obey and do what she's supposed to do but thank God my wife and I get along great and we actually enjoy having our relationship this way and honestly if you look at people that are wealthy you know their wife doesn't work people consider it a luxury to have their wife stay home and why would she want to go and clock in somewhere and clock out and wear a hairnet and a name tag and have CCTV pointed at her all day and a boss telling her what to do at work. I mean wouldn't she much rather be at home and have so much more freedom to do whatever she wants all day while I'm at work and yeah she has responsibilities at home but if she were in the workforce she'd have even less freedom because she'd have to clock in clock out. Yeah but it's not always financially possible that's the argument you're going to come across in the modern world you know where people have mortgages and bills to pay it's not always financially possible for you know one party to stay at home particularly about the wife I suppose. What happens if you know a wife is a career woman and before she even meets the guy she has a career maybe in law or something like that and she earns more money than he does surely then it's more logical than he stays at home. Well absolutely not because if he stayed at home and she was the one working then she would probably end up being the boss in the home because it seems to be that whoever pays the bills is the one who makes the rules. And so if God has clearly laid out that the husband is the head of the wife and that the husband is the head of the house and that he's supposed to be the provider then we shouldn't do it backwards just because we can make more money. Now honestly I'm a blue collar guy I was an electrician when we first got married and I was not making a lot of money at all and often what we had to do is just make sacrifices and also I had to work two jobs many times. But I would much rather work two jobs than for my wife and I both to work because then there'd be no one home to take care of the children if we were both working and I would be relinquishing my God given role as the provider. So I understand that it's hard to live on one income but in that case I would suggest the husband get two jobs. Okay so and the wife should give up that career maybe that she went to college for when she gets married. Absolutely because you know money's not everything there's more to life than money. I would rather have a good relationship with my wife and for my wife and I to get along very well and have a happy marriage and a happy home life with our children than to just have more money so I can put a boat in the driveway or something like that. I mean life's not all just about how much money and possessions you can get. Okay if anyone wants to speak to the pastor you can you can come on the air and the number again is 185410494 that's 185410494 or indeed you can text us at 53544 it's a simple question are women better homemakers? I'm assuming the pastor believes they are. Hold on a second John O'Dee you're in Cork you're live in classic it's four of them. You want to talk to Pastor Stephen Anderson go ahead. Yeah how are you doing? How are you doing what do you want to say? It's hard to believe but what I'm just thinking here now would probably be what my mother and father probably grew up with now like in a different Berlin right? Where women were as we say here be it into the ropes right that they were you know your whole role in life was just to keep avoiding children like in by December 40 years of age after about 13 children your body was worn out and then you possibly died before you were 50. Would you provide a load of children so that there was a load of Catholics growing by the year and all the different families right? When women had no sale like you mean when there was no equality there when the houses weren't even in their names well if the husband died he could actually I know of cases my parents taught me that especially in rural Ireland this used to happen a lot where that the house would be left into a relation of the church. Or to the church. The house would be left to the church. Or the church in other cases or as they say to a family member on his side which would leave the wife and kids almost on the side of the street. This guy like is like when I hear people like this I mean like their profession says to be a man of God like what I mean like they have no idea what they're talking about because if you're supposed to believe in a God and loving just God he wouldn't go on with this kind of quality for the simple reason because look women have equality now and nobody would want to go back to the days of Ireland and other countries now where they're still oppressed where this goes on where we had it before and people have moved on and rightly so. Now if you're asking to say that who's the best homemaker obviously women seem to adapt better as a girl you know the whole family units and they're kind of all things together it's just natural. Yeah I think they do have a maternal instinct yes. They do yeah and I don't think that's sexist by saying that. Otherwise there is women out there who believe that's a sexist remark because I got a text in before Stephen came on from a woman well I'm assuming it's a woman yes it is a woman it says F at the start of the text and she says you're a sexist pig women are just as equal and I never once suggested women weren't equal. But then again you say why do women then when they have kids and even when they're out walking they're kind of they're constantly thinking about the kids and you know how they are raised and they're worrying about them they want to get home to see the family and all the things you said. Look it's built in whether women like it or not the maternal thing is built in like when they have the kids they're on the boat and when they're out walking they're worrying about the kids. Why do you think what Stephen says that he wouldn't even if she wanted to he wouldn't allow his wife to work. But it's not going to rise. He's completely after wild because I mean look I can't believe there's actually people still in the world and even in America they're supposed to be a very intelligent country right. But I mean I can't believe that there's actually people like this and they're they're professors and rubbish like you mean that then what God said like you mean that women must serve a man and all that that's a cocky shit like India is a well-woven man. Well let him respond to that okay it's a cocky shit but those days are well over. Well you know what I guess the days are also over when people used to stay married because right now 75% of marriages are ending in divorce. It used to be that you know the vast majority 90 some percent of people stayed married. So whatever this world is doing as far as having equality between the husband and wife doesn't seem to be working because they're all getting divorced and then the ones who stay married are often miserable with all kinds of marriage problems. And yet my wife and I have a great relationship we get along famously and everybody that I know who has the proper... Well they're not staying married Stephen because they had to for example here in Ireland we only brought in divorce in the last 10 years. So they had no choice but to stay together in miserable marriages where they sometimes just beat the crap out of each other. The same would have happened in America where you were particularly down south where you had Christian communities and Catholic communities and people who were you know who judged each other. That they would stay married purely because they felt they had to. Okay well either way the people that are getting married today and getting divorced at a rate of 75% there's clearly something wrong there something's not working. So why would I pattern my marriage after people who are failing you know and yet the people that I know who have a biblical marriage where the husband is the provider and the husband is firmly in control and in authority in the home have a much happier marriage. This has worked for me for 13 years. There he goes again you see he's using the word control you see right. I mean if you're talking about a marriage where it's 50-50 don't belong like any relationship. Well if his marriage is not 50-50 he is the boss. But that's what I'm saying it should be 50-50 but he thinks he's the boss. Well how in the world could a relationship be 50-50? I mean two people are never going to agree all the time and so if the relationship were 50-50 and then my wife and I have a disagreement then we're going to be at an impasse. We're going to have an irreconcilable difference there. How do you solve that problem? Well if the husband is in control and he's the boss then it's easy to resolve conflict. That's a ridiculous logic for the simple reason if you have a problem you sit down and walk it over you don't come along and say I'm the boss now almost like you mean I know what's best and I make the decisions. I mean that's a total control freak. But you're not going to be able to always come to an agreement. You know your theory about how we're all going to sit down and we're all going to agree you know sometimes two people are never going to be able to come to an agreement. Because people have different opinions. Somebody has to lead. Somebody has to be in charge. I'm sure that there are times when my wife is right and I'm wrong. I'm positively certain that there are times when my wife is right and I'm wrong but it doesn't matter we're still going to do it my way because the Bible teaches that the husband is the leader and the head of the home. Now obviously if my wife is right about something and can tell me words of wisdom then if I'm wise I'll hearken under her words and I will follow her advice but if in the final analysis I decide not to do it her way you know we're going to go my way. And the bottom line is in any organization. But that's a total control also from the past for example in the way your wife would dress and the way your wife would act. In other words if you believe that your wife was dressed a little bit provocatively for example would you say it were? Absolutely. Most definitely. And if my wife was wanting to wear inappropriate clothing I would not allow her to. And if she persisted I would throw the clothes away because I'm not going to let my wife go out and dress immodestly. But thank God my wife dresses very modestly and we haven't had an argument about that in 12 or 13 years. So we actually agree on that. Would it be fair to say she knows her place? Exactly. She knows what the rules are and I didn't make up the rules. You know they're biblically based. They come from the bible. But if you look at any business, any organization, there's always a clear leader. There's a CEO. There's somebody at the end of the day who makes the decision. Well a marriage is not an organization Stephen. A marriage is an agreement between two people. It's not an organization. It's based on love. An organization is based on salaries. Okay but no organization can exist that has two leaders that both have an equal share. You can't have two CEOs of the business. It's not going to work. Because somebody at the end of the day has to make the final decision. And having a two headed monster is not going to work. Because you must have one clear leader in any organization whether it's based on love or based on salaries or anything else. There always has to be one leader. There has to be one person who at the end of the day makes the final decision. Otherwise if my wife and I had a 50-50 relationship, then we would constantly be fighting every time we have a disagreement. Instead of just letting one person lead. By the way would you mention the pastor when the bible was written? It was written by monks who didn't even know anything about marriage and didn't even have girlfriends. They're my wives. Okay wait there for a second. I want to go to Barry. You're in clear. You're live and classic. You want to talk to the pastor? Go ahead Barry. Yeah actually that's what I meant. He's mental. The bible is full of names anyway. He has an opinion yes. Yeah the bible is full of names anyway so I think we should be aware of that. Your phone is very bad quality Barry. Can you take your finger off the microphone or whatever you're doing to it there. It's very difficult to hear you. Sorry can you hear me now? I can hear you just about yeah. Go ahead. Yeah the bible is full of names so what do you know about that? The bible is full of lies. Yeah. Well obviously in your opinion you believe it is and his is not obviously. I believe that the bible has no errors in it. I believe that the bible is the word of God. And you know don't get me wrong people here because obviously I love my wife and I seek to please my wife. I'm constantly buying her flowers and buying her gifts and writing her letters and sending her text messages and emails. I love my wife and want to make her happy and the decisions that I make are calculated to do what's best for both of us and what's best for the whole family. I'm not abusing my authority to be self-serving. I'm doing what's right for the entire family. But I'm the leader. Jimmy you're in Cork. You're live at Classic Hits 4 FM. Good evening to you Jimmy. Good evening. How are you doing Jimmy? What do you want to say? Yeah it's the bible back to the road again and it's sort of difficult to take a seemingly intelligent man like Stephen I think his name is. Yeah Stephen. Seriously when he speaks of living his life by the bible. The bible is a book written by men 2000 years ago for God's sake. And if he wants to look into the bible did he ever not hear of tolerance towards other people? Well I'm definitely tolerant. Yeah I'm tolerant towards other people. But you have no tolerance for your wife's opinion. She must do what you say. That's not tolerance. Well I constantly listen to my wife's opinion. I want to know my wife's opinion but that doesn't mean that I have to follow it. And then I tell her what to do. Exactly right. She has to follow you. That's different. Right. So tolerance as long as you get. Well here's where tolerance comes in. Where is tolerance? Here's where tolerance comes in. If you want to go home and have your wife boss you around and lord over you I'll tolerate you doing that. But that's not the way it's going to be in my house because I'm actually a real man who actually is in charge in my home. And I'm not an effeminate man who lets my wife boss me around and tell me what to do like most men are becoming today unfortunately. So most men are becoming effeminate men now? Oh absolutely. I mean you just look at how men are being demascalized. My relationship would be 50-50. I often actually say that my wife probably wears the pants sometimes. But our relationship is 50-50. When it comes to money for example my wife is probably actually cleverer than I am at managing our budgets for example. My wife I would take her decisions on board 99% of the time. We make decisions together generally speaking. But when it comes to our children my wife would probably be a little bit cleverer when it comes to certain decisions. So am I an effeminate man for allowing my wife to make decisions? Well I'm not saying that you're effeminate in the way that you act. But obviously I am saying that in that area I believe that it is a feminine quality to follow your wife's lead. You're not in your proper role as a husband if you're not being the leader. It's like you've stepped down from your proper position as man and handed that over to her. And speaking of wearing the pants in the family I don't even allow my wife to wear pants. She wears only skirts and dresses because I want my wife to be dressed in a feminine way. So your wife is not allowed to wear pants? If she came down some morning and she had a pair of jeans on her you wouldn't be too happy? No she has to go change. She doesn't own any jeans though because she only wears skirts and dresses. I wear the pants both literally and figuratively. If you want to give us a call the number by the way is 1-800-410-494. That's 1-800-410-494. There's a text in here by the way it says by the way can you ask Stephen does he ever discipline his wife or does he do the disciplining of his children? I do the disciplining of the children. I'm not talking about disciplining my wife but I discipline my children but my wife disciplines them too. You see the way it works is that when I'm home I'm the boss but whenever I'm gone when I'm out working then she is in charge. And so when I'm home I do the disciplining of the children and when she's home she does the disciplining of the children. Okay and when you say disciplining of the children would that be verbally or physical? Does that get physical sometimes? Well yeah it's always physical. Spanking is the only type of discipline that we use. Okay so over your knee or whatever? I don't believe in, I don't think it's good to yell at your children and put them in time outs and lock them up and do all these types of things. The way that we discipline them is we just give them a spanking. And then everybody can move on and be happy and get it over with instead of grounding them for weeks or yelling at them or all the other lecturing and everything. We just use spanking and everybody's happier and it works out great. Okay you use it privately is that what I assume? Exactly and my wife and I both spank the children. Just whoever happens to be home and available to take care of it. Okay and will the girls in your family be treated differently than the boys for example in what they're allowed to do? What I'm trying to say is are the boys trained into your way of thinking that they would be superior to the girls and the girls have to dress in a certain way and be modest except just like your wife? Well I don't believe that men are superior to women. I don't believe that boys are superior to girls. I believe that men and women are equal in value but that they just have different roles. It's sort of like you have the dishwasher and you have the clothes washing machine. It's not that one is better than the other. It's just that they have two different jobs. I think that women are just every bit as valuable as men but they just have a different job. They just have a different function in society. Men are the leaders. Men are physically stronger. Men are built to go out and work. And women are much smarter about the things about the home and they're very good at taking care of the home and they're better at domestic type things. They're more suited to homemaking. Washing and ironing and stuff like that, yeah. So the bottom line is that it's not that men are better than women and it's not that women are better than men. I believe that they are equal in value but they are not equal in their authority and they do not have equal roles. They have different functions, different roles in our society. According to the Bible, that's what the Bible teaches, that men are not better than women. That's basically just putting words into somebody's mouth to say that because I don't believe that. Okay, well hang on. Jimmy, you want to say something? I want Barbara to come on in a second but Jimmy, go ahead. Jimmy, are you there? Have I lost Jimmy? I'd like to ask him. He's made a few judgement calls there on people and calling them a feminist. They don't do it his way. Did he ever read in the Bible, Judge Enoch, lest he be judged? Because you're holier than hell at the moment but you don't seem to know your own book too well. Well, I'm not judging anyone. I'm just stating a fact that a man who is not the leader in his home is taking on a woman's role. If you put on a dress, then that's effeminate also. And if you pull out your nipple and nurse the baby, I'm going to say that's effeminate also. There are certain jobs that men are supposed to do and jobs that women are supposed to do. And if a woman goes out and operates a jackhammer, then I'm going to say that she's masculine. I mean, men and women have different roles and I'm not... It's not masculinity. It's nothing to do with. Okay, well hang on. Do me a favour, Jimmy, because the problem that we have is slight delay because obviously the pastor is in Arizona. So when you talk over him, unfortunately he can't hear you. Alright, so you need to wait until people stop talking, Jimmy, before you say something. So, Jimmy, go ahead. Go ahead, Jimmy. Yeah, I mean, it's going back to a matter of choice. He's a control freak and he says men and women are equal in value, but as long as he has the choice of which value the man takes and which value the woman takes, it's his choice again. He's just a bully and a control freak. Okay, well you can answer that. Well, I'm not a control freak at all because, for example, I pastor a church that has about a hundred people in it and I am a very hands-off type pastor. I mean, I don't go around telling people what to do. I don't bully people and push people around. You know, the only people that I exert authority over are my wife and children because that's my God-given job. So I'm not a bully. I'm not going around telling other men that they have to do things my way and telling other people's wives what to do. You know, I let people make their own decisions. I'm going to preach the truth of what the Bible says, but you know what? It's up to you whether you want to do it or not. If you want to have a 50-50 relationship with your wife or if you want to put on a dress and start vacuuming and your wife can go off to work and, you know, build roads, then that's up to you. I'm not trying to bully you or boss you around. I'm just telling you what the Bible says. And I don't think I'm a control freak for ruling my house. Okay, okay. How was that? Barbara, you're in Dublin. You're live in class against four of them. Good evening to you, Barbara. Good evening to you, Niall. How are you doing, Barbara? Thank you. Thanks to you for choosing to speak and I admired your reaction the other night. That awful bully that's roughed up his wife and all that. Oh, yeah. That was appalling. Yeah, you're the great, you're the great attitude to him and you showed your true, true self. I don't know this pastor and I don't want to know him and he doesn't live in Ireland. And in Ireland, there is a massive history of, A, emigration. B, women all over the years from the famines to the present day having to wear children on their own. Take, for example, the Ireland Islands, all the poor men being drowned. The modern day, the women wear the children on their own. And also there's a history in Ireland, in my age, like late 50s, where the women were in the home and my mother and so on. But sadly, sadly, he's talking about husband, wife, children. Now what happens if there's no husband? B, if the children then are reared and go off and do their own thing, which you're entitled to do. And what happens to the woman then? And in other words, there is no provision for the woman to resume her career, which she's now, you know, obviously if the kids are 25, 30, 35, there's no opportunity with a recession or she's been left out with the computer age or whatever. And she might be highly qualified as I was, but there's no, there's no opportunity for her. And where does this Iabo come in talking about these people? I mean this thing, go into the home, wear your children. Most women would agree, yes, I will do my duty. I will wear my children. But in the back of their minds, they would be thinking, I want to resume my life when the children are reared. But then there's nothing for them. But if the women stay even partially in the workforce, they have an opportunity to have a life if they're widowed, separated. Okay, I think that's a fair question. Hold on a minute, here's everybody. Obviously I'll put it on the pastor. What about, yes, of course, pastor, in this country, for example, we have the highest rate of single parents in Europe at 23% of parents. In other words, one in every four children is born to a single parent whose husband is either abandoned or done a run or was pregnant. And, you know, they may have a career. And when the kids get old enough, they might want to go back into that career. I mean, what do you say to those women? They can't fit into your rules then. Well, I don't believe that children should be raised by single parents. I think that women should not get pregnant unless they're married. And most of these single parents are probably unmarried women. And, you know, they need to just keep their legs shut until they get married. Because the Bible clearly teaches that, you know, having sex before marriage is fornication, it's a sin. And so these single parents need to just not get pregnant when they're not married. And if they are married and their husband dies, like she brought up the example, then the Bible teaches that they should then get remarried to a different husband. And if they're older, if they're too old to get remarried, then they're supposed to be cared for by the church. But the Bible does not teach that women should be single parents. Okay, so it just doesn't come into your equation at all. Hold on, hold on. I'm sorry. I can't agree with that. Because, number one, in the Bible it says you cannot marry your husband's brother or something to that effect. Number two, our lady was pregnant before she got married, our lady. And then she married Joseph. That's separate altogether. Number three, in Ireland, because we were a small rough island, so many men died in the sea or had to emigrate because of work. And are these women meant to, when their husbands were gone to England building on the working site or whatever, were they meant to just take up with another man? And then if the children were married, what happens to these women? Okay, well let me just go back to the first point you made in relation to Mary, I suppose, not being married. But of course, I suppose, Stephen, you would have said that was an Immaculate conception anyway. Well that's not even true, because the Bible clearly teaches that Joseph and Mary were already married, but they had not yet consummated the marriage. They had made their vows to one another, they were espoused, but the Bible says before they came together she was with child of the Holy Ghost. So they were married, she just had not consummated the marriage yet. They had not gotten to that point yet. And so that's just her not having the right facts from the Bible. And obviously the virgin birth is kind of a one-time thing. It's not really something I need to take into my equation of home life in 2013. You know, I'm not expecting another virgin birth. Okay, somebody else has to know here, by the way, how old is the pastor's oldest daughter, and does he spank her as well? Yes, I do. I spank all my children, and my oldest daughter is six years old. But she's six, your oldest is six. Right, because I have three sons first. My oldest children are sons, my sons are almost twelve, ten, eight, yeah. And you know, I've encouraged people... At what point, I'm just curious, Pastor, about the spanking. At what point would you stop, you know, putting them over the sofa and spanking them with a paddle? At what age do you think that they're too old for spanking? Well, I don't think that they're ever too old for spanking, but I would say that hopefully as they get older they need it less and less. Like obviously my older children don't get spanked very often because as they get older they learn and they wise up, so I wouldn't set a specific age on it. It would just be once they get to the point where they're mature enough and responsible enough to not need it. And I would highly encourage people, because they think that somehow this is some horrible lifestyle that we live, that people live for thousands of years. You know, I encourage people to visit my wife's blog, which is, they just Google it, it's called Are They All Yours? And it's stevenandersonfamily.blogspot.com. And you know, they can see what a happy life we lead and how well we get along, and my wife has a wonderful blog about all kinds of homemaking and child-rearing issues and so forth. And you know what? Okay, well maybe you believe that they're happy. Maybe your kids might not be as. What would you do when your kids get to 19 or 20 and they suddenly rebel and say we're not happy with this kind of lifestyle and we don't believe this nonsense, so we're out of here? Well, at that point, if that's what they decide to do, then they can go do whatever they want. I mean, if they're adults, then they can go pay their own bills and do it their way. As long as they live in my house, they're going to do it my way. And when they grow up and they're on their own, they can do whatever they want. Okay, hold on. If you know you're in Limerick, you're not having lots of kids for them. Just make it quick if you can, Joe. Got to go into a break, but go ahead. Yeah, but no bother, no bother. Sorry, what's the pastor's name there? Steven. Steven, right. Steven, I have to start this off, right? You're a fucking agent now. Excuse me. If you can do me a favor, Joe, keep the language down, all right? Yeah, yeah. Sorry, buddy. Like, what are you on about? Bending your child over and spanking them. You just went to wash and wash. You kept talking a hole for yourself. Like, seriously, if I was your son and you started bending me over and spanking me like that and if I was seventeen or eighteen and I imagine teenagers getting stanked like that, I swear to God, I hope he does it. Just turn up wrong and hit you with a clap. Don't get me wrong now. Me and my girlfriend were very tight and I keep things like that old-fashioned. But still, I have no problem with us if we end up having a child and it was an open relationship. I wouldn't like anyone looking down on us for being married and just having a child. Are you planning on getting married, by the way? You should be able to tell me wrong. Joe, are you planning on getting married? Yeah, I was. I was in a few years' time. All I'm saying is, like, when you're talking now in a long-term relationship and you get pregnant, I shouldn't be looked down upon if you're staying in love with each other and you're still walking with each other. Just very quickly, Pastor, what would you think if Joe was with his girlfriend and she may get pregnant before they get married? Is that a no-no? Oh, yeah, that's a major sin in the Bible. The Bible calls that fornication and it's a wicked sin. You know what? I was a virgin when I got married because that's what the Bible teaches. Just give us a call. The number is 1854-10494. Keep texting him, by the way, because the question I want to ask typically tonight is, and the pastor has put it out there and so have I, Stephen, are you OK there for another 15, 20 minutes, yeah? Absolutely. Great, thanks a million. Hang on there. Just a quick break here, thanks. I'm asking you out with a better moment. Just text YES or NO to 53504. Put it, by the way, in there for an M at the start of your text. So I know if you're male or female, it gives us some indication of how you're thinking. Lots of text. I'm going to read those out after the break, all right? Nile, boiling at night. 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Who is now? 1850, 410, 494. This is Nile toilet at night on Classic It, 4 FM. The new home of late night talk for Ireland. I just heard some of the text coming in. He said that's a pastor if he knows about the atheist experience in Austin, Texas. Does he do debates with atheists? The person says yes, a woman's face is in the home. Nile, will you please tell that stupid bumpkin from Arizona that not everyone believes his bullshit? A lot of people have the intelligence to take their morals from somewhere other than the book that comes in from Bob. The Bible endorses slavery, raping of virgins and stoning to death of children and women. What a book to live by. The person says women are better at homemakers but men can be just as good and it doesn't matter. Alright, lots and lots of text coming in. If you want to give us a call and you want to talk to Pastor Stephen Anderson, you can. The number quite simply is 1850, 410, 494. That's 1850, 410, 494. A question here by text, Pastor Stephen Anderson, and he wants to know can you ask the pastor if he came home and was interested in sex with his wife and she refused, what would he do? Well, the Bible clearly teaches in 1 Corinthians 7 that actually it is wrong for a wife to refuse sex to her husband but it also teaches the opposite that it's wrong for a husband to refuse to have sex with his wife. So that's actually a two-way street. The Bible says that the wife hath not power of her own body but the husband and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body but the wife. So when it comes to the bedroom, the Bible teaches that it's not right for either party to deny the other, that activity obviously. So it's a situation that just wouldn't arise in your head. Well, when you get married, that's what it's to have and to hold and that's what the Bible teaches, that I shouldn't refuse to do that to my wife and she shouldn't refuse to do it with me. I mean, that's what the Bible clearly teaches. So that's what we live by. Okay, that's the best part of hearing it all night. Somebody says, boy, you're making my skin crawl with your patronizing bullshit. Pastor Stephen is the only one on the air actually speaking sense that comes in from Deirdre. Well, Deirdre, you're quite welcome to come in the air and add some sense to it if you believe so. The number is 1850-410-494 but I doubt you'd have the balls to do it. James, you're in Limerick, you're live in Classic It's 4 o'clock. Good evening to you, James. How you doing, Niall? How you doing, James? You want to talk to Pastor Anderson, go ahead. Well, I'm going to say one thing first. You're a knob. Okay, I don't think you need to understand what the word knob means but how and ever, go on, make your point. I'm a religious man. I was brought up when I was like... I don't... Jesus Christ stood in the middle of a road to take Mary Meldrum from being stoned and what he said, he, who would outstand, cast the first stone. Now Pastor, I think you were on this show before and the only person around here that should be examining their conscience and have fear of our Lord is you. I believe strongly in the Bible, but that's my belief. I don't believe in ramming them down people's throat and neither is it Jesus Christ. But you have this opinion, only your opinion, that the book that you read is so righteous. It's completely different than the teaching I was brought up in. Love thy neighbour as thyself, honour each other. You're on about the... There was a question put to you there about when you go home and you ask your wife for sex and if she refuses, she has no right. How many people are in the house? There's a husband, a wife and children. All equal in God's eyes. Not to be used or abused by you or anybody else. So if I was you tonight, you should get on your knees because you are the only person that's casting stones because you're so pure. I'm a sinner and I love being a sinner. I'm a child of God, that's what I believe in. And God will judge me, not you or anybody else, for what I do. You believe, you come from a country that has inflicted more pain and misery on people all over the world. You come from a country and you're so righteous that dropped an atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You come from a country that has inflicted pain on Palestinian people. You've come, you've wreaked pain, you've gunned the laws out in the Malaga. You pre-trew one end and you killed with another end. I'm not going to answer that on Stephen's behalf, but I don't believe the decisions made by George Bush or Barack Obama directly reflect Stephen's opinions. Okay, let Stephen answer that himself, go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. I can't take responsibility for everything that the U.S. government has done. I agree with him on some of the things that our country has done in warfare, but that's a whole other issue. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. But I'll say this. He claims to believe in God. He claims to believe in Jesus Christ, but when I read the words of Jesus Christ from the Bible that clearly teach that the husband is the head of the wife and the head of the household, he doesn't believe it. Then I say he doesn't believe in Jesus Christ because you can't just say I believe in Jesus Christ and then you reject what he said in his word. I mean, that's a Jesus Christ of your own imagination. And I'm not casting stones at anyone. I've not killed anyone. Go ahead, James. I believe in God. Always have. I'm 48 years of age. You believe in a false god. No, excuse me. You believe in what you believe in. I don't know who you believe in. I didn't call you a god of false gods. I believe in the god of the Bible. You believe in a god that you made up in your own imagination. If you call my god a false god, I didn't call your god a false god. Well, I called your god a false god. Is this Sesame Street or Barney and Friends where, you know, we have to play nice? I said your god's a false god. I said you invented him in your own mind. The true god is the god of the Bible and that's the true god. Yeah, I invented the god in my own mind. Well, basically what he's saying, James, is unless you're willing to go by the rules, so to speak, in other words, the words of the Bible, which he has quoted to you there, basically saying that he is the man, is the head of the household, that then you are not a true Christian and a true follower of God. Well, in 48 years, in 48 years, I've gone through quite a mess and all that. I've never in my life felt, maybe in America, that he's a pastor. What is a pastor? I don't know what a pastor is. Are you a priest? Are you an ordained minister? Are you an ordained priest by the Vatican and all that, yeah? Well, not by the Vatican. I'm not a Catholic. I'm a Baptist pastor. I'm a Baptist preacher. I'm not a Roman Catholic. He's a Christian. You're a Christian? Exactly. Yes. Yeah. So you're a believer of God? Exactly. The god of the Bible, yes. You believe in God. So you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, correct? Absolutely, yes. Absolutely, yes. You believe that the Virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, correct? Yes, I do. Okay, we don't need to be down here, James. Let's not go against it. I'm trying to figure out what this man is supposed to... This man is preaching, all right? He's preaching. He's preaching about women, second-class citizens. How does he feel about the Virgin Mary? Well, I think the Virgin Mary was a wonderful woman. Are women second-class citizens? Absolutely not. No, I think women are first-class. They're as great as men. Good evening, Gibranica. Hi, good evening. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that somebody like that can come on the radio. I don't even know what to say. I'm a mother of five children. I'm 47 and I've just heard that man say that he beats his children and tells his wife what she's allowed to do. Number one, God gave us all free will. How would you feel if your husband came home and told you to take your jeans off and put on a nice dress and told you to get up there into the bedroom and want to have sex with your today? How would you feel if that was you? I'd say, come on, pet. I don't even know what I'd say. I have five children and I'm in the car on my way home with three of my children and we just happen to be listening. And my teenage girls are flabbergasted. One of them is in jeans and one of them is in a miniskirt. Oh, right. And I'd say, they're just looking at me. They say, Mom, can you hear what he's saying? And I say, yeah, I'm listening. And he's got five children that he hits. That he hits. If you've done that in this country, child protection would be at your door. How old is your daughter in the miniskirt, by the way? She's almost 17. 17 years old. I just committed her from the masculine car. Okay. Let me just ask Stephen, sorry Stephen, what would you do if one of your, well obviously your daughter's only six at the moment, but when they get to the age, you know, of a 16 or 17 year old and they were, you know, as you see the young people nowadays because of course they watch pop music and, you know, Lady Gaga and all this kind of stuff. You know, she was wearing a miniskirt and a little bra top. How would you feel about that? Well, it just simply wouldn't happen because as long as my children live in my home, they're going to follow my rules and they're not going to dress like, they're not going to dress like whores. You know, they're not going to dress like hookers. Oh my, I'm sorry, please, please let me come in there. How dare that man cast a gift and call my daughter a whore and I was radio. Well, I didn't say she was a whore, but, you know, when women wear miniskirts, they are dressed like whores. Whores wear miniskirts. That's just a fact. She's absolutely beautiful going out this evening. And my other girl, my 21-year-old daughter, has a pair of jeans on her and a sweatshirt on. Well, she's wearing men's clothing, man. If she's wearing jeans, you know, that's men's clothing. She's not. But honestly. She's not wearing men's clothing. How old are you? How old are you, pastor? I'm 31. I don't know. I don't even think you're on the same planet as the rest of us. I am absolutely... I'm... I'm... I'm a grown woman. Well, on the planet... on the planet that I live on, every time there's a whore standing on the corner, she's wearing a miniskirt. That's the planet I live on, Planet Earth, where hookers and prostitutes wear miniskirts. And you're judging. You're judging. So the minute you judge, you'll be judged likewise. You're absolutely going back and forth. Okay, well, if I ever wear a miniskirt, then you can judge me likewise, okay? Because I've condemned wearing miniskirts, because I think it's ungodly. You have not. You have not. You actually judged my beautiful daughter because she has a beautiful, clean miniskirt on her and my other daughter because she's got a parent. I didn't judge her. I didn't judge her. I'm just saying that it's a sin to wear a miniskirt. It's a sinful... You associated her because of what you dressed her. I said that's what she's dressed like. It's true. She might be showing a bit of lag. Hey, can I ask you now, is it even paid to be on your show? No. Because I don't even know... I won't even say I'll allow him to upset me, because I am upset. It's appalling. I hope none of my three sons grow up with that manner. But you know, Veronica, the pastor does represent many people who have very traditional values. And there is people in rural Ireland. Hold on. There is people still living in Ireland. I would have to say more so rural Ireland than probably the cities. I live in more Ireland. Yeah, but have values like that. I live 25 months sitting in a small village where I go to mass every Sunday. Do you believe, by the way, do you buy into his theory that women are suited more to being homemakers, or as he said, a woman's place is in the home? Not at all. I love my home. But a woman's place is not just in the home. A woman's place is where she chooses to be, where she is happy. And where her and her husband are her partner, if she doesn't happen to be married to them. Or maybe they could be two men or two women. Oh, God. But they might be two women. Heaven's sake. So therefore, one of them might choose to be in the home, and the other may not choose to be in the home. Or they might both choose to be out of both in the home. Okay, let me just say, it seems you've brought that point up, Veronica. It's a very interesting point. Pastor, in Ireland here, like many other countries in the world, France has, of course, just passed legislation. We are on the verge of passing legislation for gay marriage. How does that fit into your rules? Well, the Bible teaches that actually gays should be executed. Because it actually says in Leviticus 20, 13, that if a man also lied with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood should be upon them. But obviously, you don't personally believe that, do you? Well, obviously, I believe every word of the Bible, including that. Now, I'm not saying that I would ever kill anyone, because I never would. But I believe that the government should use the death penalty on murderers, rapists, homosexuals, and that's what the Bible teaches, very clearly. And by the way, she talks about... But I mean, you know, currently in Uganda, for example, they do have, you know, 14-year jail sentences and a death penalty for anybody who assists in a gay marriage. Right, so apparently, I'm not the only person on this planet that actually believes what the Bible says. And not only that, I have plenty of listeners. You know, I have many... I actually have many listeners in Ireland, because all my sermons are online, and there are many people in Ireland who download my sermons and listen to them every Sunday. So... And I've communicated with many of them. Okay, bye, okay. Somebody just texted him, says, I can't believe he said homosexuals should be executed. Well, yes, well, he did say the Bible says that. You can call in at 185410494. I want to go to the test. Thanks for that, Veronica. Sorry, go ahead, Patrick. Not only did I say that the Bible said that, I actually read the Bible verse, and the Bible teaches that in Romans chapter 1, and it also teaches that in Leviticus 2013. So I read the words of the Bible, and you asked me if I believed it. Well, I wouldn't be a Christian pastor worth my salt if I didn't believe the Bible. All right, well, hold on a second. I want to go to Tessa. I think it is. Tessa, you're in Cary. You're live in classic it for us, and good evening to you. Hello. Hello, Tessa. How are you doing? What do you want to say? What do I want to say? I'm just fit to be anointed. You're fit to be anointed? Yes. Okay. I'm fit to be anointed, listening to that stupid mediator around that night. I mean, who in the name of God does he think he is? Controlling women like this. He's not controlling women. He's controlling his wife. His wife, yes. That's right. Thank him. Thanking his children, and I mean, in all fairness, if I was his wife and his children, I would get out, and he said he has three bigger sons and one daughter, and I think in another year or two, if his son said any bit of sin in their head, they would beat the living crap out of him, beat him to have pulp, and give him back what he did to them. It's chic of him. How dare he? That's child abuse and wife abuse. Do you believe in child abuse, Stephen, because in most modern society, people don't agree with spanking their children. They believe there's other ways of chastising your children and teach disciplining them. You know, where I live in the United States, the vast majority of people spank their children. More than half the people in America spank their children. So I'm not alone on this, and of course it's not child abuse. I think it's child abuse not to spank your children because the Bible says, He that spareth his rod hateth his son, but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. And so, you know, you spare the rod, the Bible says you hate your children. And so I love my children, and so I lovingly discipline them, and my children love me, and they respect me. Children who aren't spanked by their parents, they don't respect their parents. Are you brainwashing them? And that's why we see so many... No, of course not. I'm teaching them the Bible, and, you know, I believe the children who are brainwashed... No. You think all teaching is brainwashing? Well, what about the brainwashing that the government school system's doing? You know, indoctrinating the children? Absolutely not. My children are homeschooled. I don't want them to be brainwashed by the government into thinking that there's no God and that it's normal for a man to have sex with another man. I mean, that's the kind of filth that they're going to learn in the public school. I don't want them to be brainwashed that the United States government can do no wrong and to be taught to be a slave and a robot of our society. I'd rather let them grow up in the freedom of being a Bible-believing Christian. That's where the real freedom is. In your opinion. So who teaches your children? Who educates your children? My wife, primarily. I teach them some, but my wife does most of the teaching because obviously, you know, she's the one that runs the home while I'm away, so she does most of the homeschooling and she does most of the childrearing, but I do a lot of it myself, of course. And will they go on to be, you know, educated academically because your wife, is she educated enough to teach your children? Well, yes, she is very educated, but here's the thing. You start out homeschooling with children. They don't start out in Algebra II. You know, they start out in kindergarten and so you can learn right along with them. And my son is 11 years old. He just completed Algebra I. He's going into Algebra II, so he's a couple of years ahead for his age, so they're getting a very good education. They read several books a week each in addition to reading the Bible. And, you know, my wife is very intelligent. What happens when they get the point faster when they have to go to college? They don't have to go to college. I didn't go to college and I've made very good money through the years and I didn't go to college and I've made lots of money. Well, sure, do you want to give your kids the best start in life? That's exactly what they're getting. They're getting the best start in life by learning the Bible and being well educated. I mean, a lot of the kids coming out of the public school system can't even hardly read and write. My children are years ahead of the school system. They could take any standardized test. They'd be years ahead. So they're getting a great start in life. Just because I don't want them to be indoctrinated. How are you making money now? Are you still an electrician? Yes, I am. Well, I do both. I pastor part-time and I am an electrician part-time. Or actually, I do both full-time. I work two jobs, basically. Okay, okay. All right, I want to go to Jo when you're live and glad to get to her. Hello, how are you doing, Niall? Well, leaving out the obedience clause and less of who is the leader, because I believe all men and women are equal and should we all agree on that. But before I just put a few viewpoints, if he left out all the time in what he's saying, the Bible, I could kind of certainly believe some aspects which might surprise you. But before that, I want to ask the pastor, did he check out his rights before marriage as to whether she felt that he should have the final decision to make? And did they both agree together on the number of children they should have? Well, the number of children that we've agreed upon is infinity, because we're just going to have as many children as God gives us. And we've already had seven and we're going to have as many as God gives us. We don't use any kind of birth at all. Yeah, and do you think your wife will be able and she still stays strong if you have, say, 40 children? Well, it's not really humanly possible for my wife to have 40 children. And here's the thing, because my wife breast feeds the children, they are naturally spaced about two years apart. Some people have their children about one year apart, and yes, that's very unhealthy for their body to have children every nine months. You don't use any contraception. Just by breastfeeding, that puts the children a couple of years apart, because the body has a natural way of spacing the children. Yeah, Niall, this pastor is most unusual. If he left out the word about the Bible each time he says something, about it all being laws, he's following all these laws, I don't know how he can even breathe any day at each time to be normal. For example, there are certain things that I would agree on myself that are unusually disappointing and puzzled when I hear of, say, a woman who was just born a child and not wishing to stay at home and be with it and be a happy homekeeper. I could never leave my children in their early years. I felt the mother figure was very important. And if you're happy, you're going to be a very good homemaker. But some men are terrific homemakers, but usually, through circumstance, the threat of the wife is ill or the loss of their job. So we have changes now where the men may lose their jobs and the woman becomes the homemaker. I don't think the pastor has taken anything into consideration that we do have a worldwide recession, not just here in Ireland, particularly badly in Ireland where men are losing their jobs and women are working. Does that enter into your equation, Stephen? Here's how it enters into the equation. I think that Satan is doing that on purpose. I think that there is an agenda to get women out in the workforce because Satan wants to destroy the family and destroy the home. And we're seeing the calculated breakdown of the family, the breakdown of morality, putting the children in a government school to be brainwashed, estranging the husband from his wife. Well, you know what? Satan is the one who runs the banks. I think banks are evil. The Bible teaches that charging usury is a sin. So the banks are run by evil people. The love of money is the root of all evil. You don't use banks either? Well, I do use a bank because I have to function, but I don't charge usury. I think that the banks are run by evil people. I believe that there's a conspiracy of the bankers and that there basically is a new world order and that they're trying to create a one-world government. I believe in all that stuff. It's pretty obvious. I think you must have heard the Anglo tapes, so you probably wouldn't get that. Sorry. Okay, but Joan... Yes, I'd like to ask the pastor. It must be terrible tension from every day of his life when psychologically, if he eats corn flakes instead of porridge, the Bible says it if he decides to go for walk because that's what's coming across, and I often think does he ever go to medical people to see that he's okay because no human being... I believe if he believes that if you don't read the Bible and don't work and go by the Bible, he'd be the only person in heaven if he believed us. We'd all be in hell having a great time because to live like that with that in his mind every day is unnatural. Now, there's certain things that I said earlier on that I do believe in. For example, if a woman can afford to stay home, I believe she should. I get disappointed if she's had a baby. So, if he were to make those comments without adding the Bible in, I could take that on board. But unfortunately, he is saying, I have to do this because this is a big lie. Because the problem is everything he says is coming from a book, which is 2,000 years old. I.E., for example, some of the words of hatred, which I believe are words of hatred about executing homosexuals, etc., they come from the Bible. Well, actually, his version of the Bible because I don't know whether he's read it in every language. Well, every version of the Bible says the same thing. Well, no, I have not. But I've read the Bible in German and Spanish and Romanian and Norwegian cover to cover. But I will say this, that every single English version of the Bible says the same thing about homosexuals. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic, and the New Testament was written in Greek. So, surely in translation, it would have lost a lot of its meaning, I imagine. I don't believe so. I speak several languages, and I don't believe it has to lose anything in translation at all. I mean, God chose two different languages. What I'm trying to say to you is, Stephen, that there's a lot of people who live their lives by the Bible and live their lives, so they've got a lot of good Christians in this world, okay? And here in Ireland, we have a lot of Catholics, as you well know, who live by what they believe are the Bible. I would call them a la carte Catholics or a la carte Christians because they pick from the Bible their own interpretation of what they believe is morally right. They don't hate people. They don't despise people because they're gay. They don't dislike their neighbour because they might not be married and have a child. They basically pick and choose which parts they believe their moral compass fits into. But unfortunately, what you do, Stephen, is you are taking it literally right down to the word, which can be quite dangerous because there's a lot of hatred in the Bible as well. Well, I don't think it's dangerous at all. I think the Bible's perfect in every way from cover to cover. You know, this a la carte philosophy makes absolutely no sense. If the Bible is not 100% true, if Jesus Christ is not really who he said he was, then the Bible should be rejected outright. We should have, you know, even the Bible is the word of God. But you have no evidence right now that the Bible is 100% true apart from the fact that it's written in a book. You've none. Well, I believe that the Bible says we have to believe it by faith. If there were evidence, then you wouldn't have to believe in it. And one thing is that the Bible tells you that. Exactly. You were telling us that you must believe this book, the book that's telling you that it's true. You have no evidence for that whatsoever. And many times over the last, God knows how many years, particularly over the last 100 years, there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that has been proved to be untrue. Well, that's simply not the case. Nothing in the Bible has been proven not to be true. And I've been alive for 31 years, and everything I've ever seen just proved that the Bible was true. And the Bible's always right. Yeah, but things today are very intelligent. We've got the Internet, we've got all forms of information, we've got all forms of information for children, we've got a lot of scientists, we've got a lot of good information and research out there. And you are going to sit down and tell your children, because I'm assuming you're a creationist, you're going to tell your children. Absolutely. Yeah, you're going to say to your kids, kids, the world is 6,000 years old. Okay, so you basically think that I should go with the more educated, intelligent view that everything came from nothing, right? No, I'm not. That's really smart. Everything came from nothing. And even as much as I would probably consider myself to be atheist, I would say there's always going to be that question there, where did everything initially come from? And maybe, maybe in 2,000 years, maybe in 100 years, maybe in 10 years, scientists or people who study this or researchers might actually eventually come up with an answer. Maybe they will. Maybe they'll never come up with an answer. But at the moment, we can look at the evidence that we have there for Darwin's theory, for natural selection. We can look at all the evidence that's out there about dinosaurs and fossils, and we can gather that evidence together, and we have specific evidence that basically devotes your theory that the Earth is 6,000 years old. We know it's billions of years old. We don't know that. How in the world could you ever measure? How can you measure billions of years of time? That's not even possible. It's all a fraud. It's all made up. We clearly know it's not 6,000 years old. How? How do you know that? Because nowadays they can go to fossils and they can tell you exactly how old they are. They go to a fossil and how do they tell how old it is? Well, I've heard different stories of how they do it. Yeah, well guess what? They don't know. All they do is guess. They guess is what they do. They make up things and they theorize. Do dinosaurs not exist? You know what? The Bible describes dinosaurs and talks about dinosaurs living at the same time as man, and the Bible was written thousands of years before dinosaurs had ever been dug up. So finding dinosaurs in the 1800s just proves that the Bible is even more true because how did the authors of the Bible know about dinosaurs thousands of years before they were discovered in the 1800s by archaeologists? When we take these fossils of these bones and they do what they call carbon dating, for example, that means absolutely nothing, nothing to you whatsoever. Carbon dating, you apparently do not understand carbon dating because carbon dating does not go back millions of years. It only deals in thousands of years. So when they talk about millions and billions of years, they don't use carbon dating. They go by what layer of dirt they found it in and they say this layer is this many years old, but the Bible teaches that there was a worldwide flood that obviously shook things up and has created the layers of sediment by flooding the entire earth with violence, and that's what the Bible teaches in Genesis Chapter 6. So carbon dating has nothing to do with it. That's just a common misconception. Anybody who looks up carbon dating online will find that what I'm saying is true and that it does not go back millions of years, and that is a common misconception. Look it up. Go to Wikipedia. Go to the encyclopedia. Look up carbon dating. It doesn't go back millions of years. Carbon dating can go back 62,000 years ago. I'm looking at it here. That's not even true. Whoever's saying that is exaggerating grossly. And you know how carbon dating works? It's how many clicks they get on the Geiger counter, and if they get a few clicks, they say, oh, this is really old. It's been proven to be wrong. It's been proven to be inaccurate, and they only claim that it goes back thousands, not millions. So, you know, people just blindly believe whatever these scientists say, and the same scientists... Scientists will have theirs. And actually, for you, they base theirs on evidence. You base yours on a book. That's not evidence. The word evidence, notice evidence has the word vid in it, V-I-D, something that you see. They haven't seen anything. They are theorizing and making things up. They don't know how old these things are. They are theorizing and guessing. They have no control group that they know for sure is that old. Therefore, it's not accurate. It's their theory. And they've been proven wrong before. They'll be proven wrong again. I find that any debate from Pastor Steven Anderson with atheists, does he know about the atheists? I think you asked him about the atheist experience. And by the way, by the way, these same people who believe in evolution and they believe that the Earth is millions of years old, they don't just throw their hands up and say, we don't know where the world come from. They say they know exactly where it came from. They believe in the Big Bang. And the Big Bang teaches that the whole world came from nothing. And that is stupidity and nonsense. I didn't take you from the start. As an atheist, I believe I'm an atheist, right? I know and I believe in the Big Bang theory, et cetera. But in saying that, I agree with you with the fact that nobody at this point knows where all that came from. Nobody knows where the universe came from. Nobody knows why the Big Bang happened in the first place or how it happened and what was there before it. I would agree with you completely on that. But what I'm basing my theory is on that maybe in 50 years or 100 years, scientists will come up with an answer for that. Or maybe we'll never even understand that. But I don't always turn around as you would when I can't explain something and say, there must be a God or a superior being responsible for us. Well, it's just ridiculous to look at how complex the human brain is and how complex nature is and how complex the universe is and say, hey, this all just exploded. This all came from nothing. That's like blowing up a hardware store and, you know, a house is built with people living in it. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. It's nonsense. It's a fairy tale. And the Bible says the fool has said this hardware is my God. But you're not willing to listen to anything else. I have said before, and I know Richard Dawkins has said it as well before, that he never, and he even said it in The God Delusion, the book, he will never rule out the fact that there could be a God. He's never ruled that out. Well, I'm willing to listen. Of course I'm willing to listen. And I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm processing it and it doesn't make any sense to me and it defies all logic and it defies all science and so I'm not going to believe in it. I don't believe that the world exploded and came from nothing, okay? Life cannot come to life on its own. Before he goes, could you ask him about Noah and his ark? Does he believe it? Well, I've had this question before, Pastor, with somebody similar to yourself in relation to Noah's ark. I think they're wonderful stories for children. They teach great morals. But do you believe it actually happened, literally? Absolutely. I think I just mentioned it a few moments ago how the world was flooded in Genesis. So 6.2 million species of animal onto one boat. The Bible does not say that every species was on the boat. The Bible says that every kind, and a kind is a much broader classification. There are a few kinds. For example, there were only two dogs. There weren't all the breeds of dogs. So basically, I believe that all the animals that are on this earth came from few animals that were brought on the ark, okay? Different kinds, not every species, okay? And you guys believe that every animal came from a single ancestor. Well, I believe that every animal came from ancestors that were on the ark. So what I'm believing is much more logical than to believe that one ancestor produced every animal on the earth. That doesn't make any sense. But to believe that all horses came from only two horses on the ark, and all dogs came from only two dogs, not every species necessarily of animal, but just the major kinds of animals were on the ark. Two cats, as it were. Not necessarily every type of nuance of various breeds of cat. It's still a hell of a lot of animals for a couple of people. Well, the ark is huge. I mean, if you read the description of the Bible, it's massive. And people have already calculated and proved it many times. They used Bronze Age tools to basically build an ark, as somebody suggested before. They'd be still building it now if they started building it then. Oh, really? Okay, if those people were using Bronze Age tools, quote unquote, so how'd they build the pyramids? How'd they build Stonehenge? How'd they build the aqueducts? I think they were a little smarter than you're giving them credit for. People thousands of years ago built some pretty amazing structures, and they don't even know how they built those even to this day. How did they build the pyramids? That's a pretty advanced structure. I'm going to leave it at that. It's in the path of Stephen Anderson. Once again, thank you very much for coming on the air, and I appreciate it. All right? Thank you. Thanks, Stephen. Okay, we'll chat again soon. All right? Yep, sounds good. Thanks. Really appreciate that. See you. Bye-bye. My pleasure. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.