(Disclaimer: This transcript is auto-generated and may contain mistakes.)

right I believe we are live on YouTube right now this is a Ben Naim here and I'm very excited about the live stream tonight I'm here with somebody I've been Facebook friends with for a long time and this is the first time we've actually ever had a chat one-on-one but it's great to be here we're talking about end times Bible prophecy this evening this is one of my favorite subjects I've always been a huge fan of this you know topic I talk about it a lot with my friends and you know when it comes to Bible prophecy there's a lot of different views out there there's a lot of different positions out there that people have but at the end of the day there's only one truth and that's what we're seeking to try and find this evening is the truth what does the Bible say and so that's what we're going to try and accomplish tonight let me just make sure that the stream is running all right let me just check that and then I'll introduce our guest who might be having some issues hearing me but hopefully he can get that squared away just check to make sure we're live first of all what does the Bible say we are okay great so brother Mike Murphy is here brother Mike Murphy is joining me and we're going to be talking about end times Bible prophecy brother Mike can you hear me okay I can hear you fine can you hear me yes I can all right well brother Mike I just want to thank you for coming on for this live stream I really appreciate it and like I said on the onset we're talking end times Bible prophecy this is one of my favorite subjects and you know it's been a long time since I've done a live stream so I'm trying to get it all back together again and using some new equipment some new software so you'll have to bear with me as we kind of go through this here there might be some technical issues and for those of you listening live you have to bear with me as well as it is a technical issues I'm sure already has been but it's great to be here with you brother Mike and first of all I guess just introduce yourself to the audience real quickly in terms of maybe just a little background on yourself and just so that people can get a little familiar with who you are well first of all I just want to thank you so much brother Ben for having me on here it's really great to be here and end times Bible prophecy is one of my favorite topics too and I really love getting down deep and talking about it myself so basically what got me interested into end times prophecy this goes back all the way from from the time around the time when I got saved about 30 years ago back in 1993 I was in central Michigan living in the dorms and I befriended a Christian man my friend Nate he and I wasn't a Christian at that time but he always preached at me he he was sharing me the gospel and he was using all kinds of tactics to try and win me to the lord one of the things he did was he said okay be sure you promise me something promise me that if you see a whole bunch of people disappear from this earth then you promise me you'll read the bible you'll read you'll read the the gospel of john you'll read first corinthians 15 to to understand what happened to everyone and basically I just I thought to myself you know that sounds really interesting how that happens is that really in the bible but you know I I didn't get saved at that time eventually he confronted me you know he's just like do you want to go to heaven or do you want to go to hell and I was like well I don't want to go to hell in my mind I was thinking and my mind is thinking you know what I really do want to get saved because I don't want to go to hell I want to go to heaven and I want to learn more about this kind of stuff and and what else the bible has to say but eventually you know shortly after I did get saved it took me a while because we were good friends and in my mind it was kind of a competition thing you know I can resist him he's trying to get me saved I'm saying no you know I don't want to humble myself at that time so anyway thinking about heaven and hell I thought you know what some stupid competition is insignificant I'm going to I finally pulled the trigger and got saved and started going to church with him and going to sunday school with with him and his friends and his uncle basically ran the sunday school and after a while he was asked about the book of revelation and he he's he's saying you know what we don't really study the book of revelation much we kind of stay away from revelation it's too dark it's too mysterious there's too much symbolism and blood and it's just too hard to understand well I took that as a personal challenge and for for that whole time I was deep into bible prophecy and revelation and and everything end times prophecy yeah I mean that's definitely an understatement you've made several charts which I'm going to show on the screen in a moment here dealing with this subject and I think for a lot of people who are visual who are visual learners it's really helpful to be able to see the timeline to be able to look at it in a chart form and to see all right this particular portion of daniel's 70th week lasts for you know for example 1260 days and here are what the four horsemen of the apocalypse symbolize and here's what the seven trumpet and vials are going to entail or what's going to happen when the seven trumpet and vial judgments occur and here's when the rapture happens and what it's all sort of just laid out in chart form for people to look at I think it helps visual learners really to understand what's going on because this subject especially if you've never studied it before it can get confusing and I don't blame people for getting confused about it simply just reading the text of the book of revelation or the book of daniel or joel or other eschatological portions of scripture it can get difficult you know it certainly is the the meat of the word and so for visual learners out there these charts can be helpful and I wanted to actually put your website up on the screen here so that people can see what I'm talking about and there it is for those of you watching on youtube you can see brother mike's charts he's got the daniel 70th week chart he's got the kingdoms of the world symbolism chart he's got the true age of the earth so he isn't a one-trick pony folks you're gonna get other charts as well dealing with other subjects and here he has the true age of the earth the 70 weeks of daniel again mostly focusing on what the bible says there in daniel chapter nine and this one is so cool and this gets my inner nerd prophecy nerd just going right here this is super exciting the foreshadowings daniel 70th week foreshadowing looking at different types or pictures of the rapture specifically from a post-trip pre-wrap perspective i find that to be very interesting and then there's the biblical calendar and feast days you also have the chronology of the divided kingdom of israel and judah the books of the bible and the structure of the book of daniel and you end it with daniel's right triangle which i'll ask you about a little bit later on but those are some of the charts that you have there on the website but before we get into that you already talked a little about how you got into end times bible prophecy what led you to decide to study it and things like that but my question for you is this when you first got into this when you first started to look into this and study this topic what did you believe about the timing of the rapture because most people that i run into they kind of start out first of all as pre-trip they start out with the pre-trip position and then later on they kind of evolve they learn more maybe they watch after the tribulation by pastor stephen anderson paul whitenberger and they change their mind that way or they run into different preaching or a different film whatever the case may be but most people i've met went from the pre-trip position to the post-trip position did you start out already believing in the post-trip pre-wrath rapture or is that something you had or is that a conclusion you had to come to later on in your christian life well as i had mentioned my friend challenged me as far as you know he he's basically telling me that if you all of a sudden see the rapture happen then you know find find out what happened in first corinthians 15 right so they they taught me pre-tribulation rapture that's how i that's how i learned and basically i didn't know much about the bible i was freshly saved so naturally i listened to many other people as far as trying to learn my uh end times prophecy i listened to jack van impie i listened to perry stone i listened to john hagee i listened to hal lindsay and so many other you know tv preachers i also read all the left behind books from tim lehay and jerry jenkins you know i watched all the movies however i i didn't do the board games or the action figures okay you stopped showing one second that is give me a sec i need to put it in my other ear okay can you hear me yes i can okay so yeah i was into all that stuff and uh and shortly after i got saved i started you know caring about the issues of the world geopolitics you know i became a right-wing conservative because and constantly watched the news because i wanted to find out you know when this one world government is going to start forming so i i watched the news with an end times prophecy state of mind and i listened to like rush limbaugh sean hannity bill riley glenn beck just so many so many of those kind of people uh to get my my opinions basically that turned me into a very angry fox news christian i know what that's like so yeah finally finally it all came to a head in 2010 you know the passing of obamacare and that just pissed me off big time and i just started developing this mindset that there's got to be a conspiracy behind all this so guess who i started listening to shortly after that i'm going to take a stab at it and say alex jones you got it and i found out that both parties are evil to the core you know so i listened to alex jones from for many months many years finally in 2013 alex jones decides to have this preacher steven anderson on his show and basically promoting his film after the tribulation that kind of ticked me off a little bit but um you know i always knew in my head that whenever i did read the bible i always knew that there wasn't much that supported a pre-trib rapture so i wasn't that ticked off about it i thought you know what i'm gonna give him a chance you know i'm gonna go watch the film i'm gonna open up my bible and just watch it and try and learn something if there really is a lot of scripture that supports the post trip then i should change my view you know i should align my views to the bible and i was wondering how many scripture how much scripture is really and i was just so blown away by how much scripture that does support that position you know i had matthew 24 mark 13 luke 21 revelation six and seven side by side and everything was just so consistent i was just flabbergasted and it didn't take me long to change my view after i watched that film and it created a monster i i sought out pastor anderson's uh youtube channel and paul wittenberger's channel and watched the whole revelation series maybe two or three times and then in 2018 i watched the daniel series and basically between the time that i changed my view my my understanding of revelation and end times just exploded well once you have the right view on the timing of the rapture i think it really helps to unlock scripture and specifically the book of revelation when you realize that it's cut in half starting in chapter 11 chapter 12 on begins the second half of the book when you realize that's how it's laid out it really helps you to understand what's going on that these events are sort of being told again in the second half of the book and it just unlocks it like i said the pre-trip position makes bible prophecy so confusing you look at these pre-trips and preachers you know a guy that comes to mind and he's a false teacher is robert breaker you look at his videos and he's got a whiteboard behind him there's like 50 arrows one's going up one's going down there's like six raptures there's 50 dispensations there's you know charts up you know one side and down the other and it's like it looks like the world's most difficult math equation whereas if you know how many times and how many times has he set a date for the rapture too and it didn't come to pass exactly over and over and over again date setting and he's not the only one who's done that but my point is is the pre-trip position just makes bible prophecy so confusing it's already a difficult subject and they make it even harder the way that they interpret passages and talk about different church ages and how we're going to be raptured before the tribulation and it's eminent and you never know when it could happen of course none of this is found in the bible right i mean the bible says after the tribulation in matthew chapter 24 verse 29 mark 13 you know you read the all of that discourse you read second thessalonians chapter two and i don't think that the scriptures could be any more clear about the timing of the rapture but let's get into your charts now because this is the reason why i got you on and i actually gave you a nickname brother mike i i call you the bible chart guy it's not the most creative name but it's what i've labeled you and that's because you've come out with several different charts over the years many of them dealing with bible prophecy which is the subject matter that we're covering on the live stream tonight but obviously you've also done charts dealing with other subjects you talk about you know you have charts rather that um kind of visualize the timing of the passover when jesus christ died and rose again which is very helpful and again just to lay all of that out in chart form for visual learners but this podcast is more so dealing with prophecy and the very first chart that you made i'm going to put up on the screen now and it might be helpful if you have the ability on your end mike to look at it yourself so we're looking at the same thing but the very first chart you made and i'm loading it up here dealing with daniel's 70th week and just talk a little about this i have it up now for the viewers so they can see for themselves what we're talking about let me just make it actual full screen there we go so i have the first chart you've ever made on the screen here this is daniel's 70th week for those of you who maybe are unfamiliar with this it's dealing with the very last seven years before the millennium before the 1000 year reign of jesus christ and what happens during this time period you have the tribulation where the devil essentially persecutes all of mankind at the midpoint it's the abomination of desolation then you've got the persecution of christians it reaches a fever pitch and a point that has never been seen before in in history where the antichrist makes war with the saints then you have the rapture then you have the wrath of god poured out for a period of just under three and a half years but i have your first ever chart pulled up here and brother mike when did you actually produce this give us a little backstory on this chart so this one here um the very first uh daniel 70th week chart i made this after i heard pastor anderson preach about the timing of the rapture and i believe he preached that in 2017 i think and again i was blown away with all the different illustrations or pictures of the rapture you know you have you have the trumpet of the jubilee happening in the 10th day of the of the seventh month in the year which matches perfectly with the timing of the rapture in daniel's 70th week you have the sea of galilee which um you know jesus is walking on the water and he comes to the disciples exactly 53 percent into the sea of galilee into their trip yes boom they're just immediately warped to the other side like that you know i thought that was pretty cool and and also the desolation of jerusalem well the captivity of jerusalem is when uh joe hoyakin joe hoyakin i don't know i guess it's pronounced joe hoyakin but he was brought forth out of prison given a change of garments and you know continuously eats with the king a wonderful picture of the rapture he was in prison before and he's pulled out exactly 53 into the captivity right and you know there there was some other ones i discovered one about enoch uh that's not on this chart but this is the first chart that i made here i'll show the enoch one momentarily that's a really really cool picture of the rapture but what i like about this is you have daniel 70th week you've got all the different highlights everything that occurs here and then you have under it these types if you want to call it that right here you have the trumpet of the jubilee the sea of galilee you mentioned that and i'll get into more detail later but i think this is a good start now what do you use to make this like what software are you using to produce a chart like this so i use i now i primarily use microsoft powerpoint okay because there's some great there's some great tools in there that can align objects with each other and also distribute them evenly and i just learned some tricks over the years using microsoft powerpoint that helps me create these but one of the mistakes that i learned after i made my first chart here that i don't know if you still have that on screen or not but i do charts it's possible to have too much information in in the charts information overload so as you can see in the bottom there's there's what happens beyond daniel the very bottom you see the judgment reward and under the saints then the millennium the thousand years where jesus comes and rules and reigns on this earth and then satan gets loose to deceive the nations then after that you have the battle of gog and magog and satan cast into the lake of fire then the great white throne judgment death and hell cast in the lake and fire new heaven and the new earth and jerusalem descending to the earth so i had that i this was kind of my daniel 70th week and beyond and illustrations so since then i've broken those up into two different charts first first one is the daniel 70th week i focus only on daniel 70th week and then i put the illustrations into a separate chart well let's look at that so i'm pulling up here what appears to be your most updated daniel 70th week chart on your website so it's the very first chart that you have on your website i just clicked on it and we're looking at now an updated version and you could tell that you've definitely improved in the sense that some of these graphics look a lot better and for me this one's easier to follow in the sense that you've got different like i said time periods color coded as well so that helps you realize where you're at in the timeline and like you said it appears that the foreshadowing the pictures of the poster pre-wrath raptures are found in a different spot now but looking at this updated chart here you can see for those of you that are watching at home or on youtube that he's got some nice looking graphics to illustrate exactly what's going on at what part of daniel 70th week is being highlighted in particular i like the seals right here first seal second seal third fourth fifth sixth and seventh and you can see that the first four seals are coupled with the four horsemen of the apocalypse and they're colored appropriately there so you have that and it tells you exactly what occurs after each seal in this gray spot over here and i like how daniel's uh 70th week or the seven years of daniel 70th week is illustrated by what looks like a kind of measuring tape which that was one of my most recent updates yeah i think that makes it really cool i like the measuring tape idea and then you clearly point out the first 1260 days where that starts where that ends 1335 days where that starts where that ends the same with 2300 days you've got 1260 days of daniel 70th week ending right before the millennium there and then you have of course 1290 days which accounts for the second half of this seven year period but i think what stands out to me here not just the cool looking graphics but what i like about this is the fact that you denote the abomination of desolation in orange and then that line kind of leads up to this top portion here where you can read more about it and then the rapture the day of the lord slash the day of christ is in red and that i think makes it obvious as to the difference between those two events now when it comes to all these different numbers and things like that because people are going to look at this and again i think it takes some study right so if you've never seen a chart like this before i don't blame you for still being somewhat confused but when you look at a chart like this brother mike and you're you're kind of putting this all together are you doing it from scratch or is this something where you're taking inspiration maybe from other charts that exist out there or did you just make this completely from scratch well this one no i i didn't i didn't totally make it from scratch because i if you've seen pastor anderson's chart that he had he showed it on his revelation series yeah so i kind of started with that model where you have the sequence of events all kind of stacked next to each other on the top and then down below you have your timelines that shows the timing of all all the events that is known absolutely so i i did kind of model but um i did go back and forth on a few different layouts i can see i can see a little bit of that inspiration for sure now regarding the actual tribulation and god's wrath and all these different events that are going to happen before the millennium and certainly before the rapture there's so much that needs to occur there's so much that has not happened yet and that's why it's so funny when these pre-tribbers talk about well the return of christ is imminent it could happen before this sermon even ends it could happen at any point in time and it's like yeah second thessalonians chapter 2 makes it clear that we have to be a certain milestones that come to pass first and i think this chart illustrates that all the different pestilences and wars you have to have the rise to the top of the new world order power structure by the antichrist wars famines death martyrs appearing in heaven courtesy of the destruction of the i should say the war on the saints orchestrated by the antichrist through the mark of the beast and other means but what i wanted to ask you is this just kind of looking at all the different calamities and things that have to happen in your mind what is the scariest part we'll start with the tribulation first what would you say is kind of the scariest part about the tribulation period the first three and a half years well i personally like to call so i kind of break that up in two pieces really you have the first part which i like to call the beginning of sorrow sorry yeah the beginning of sorrow so because yeah there can be some confusion as far as as that goes so so we'll so let's talk about the beginning of sorrows and the great tribulation basically the first three and a half years plus 75 days okay gotcha so what would you say is the beginning like fearful or or what kind of seems to be from the outside looking in we haven't seen any of this happen yet but based on what the bible says what's the scariest part about all this in your mind well in the beginning of sorrows i probably say um i don't think false christ is really that scary i mean wars world wars you know the whole world is going to be a war so there's going to be a lot of violence and death and then there's going to be the famines and pestilences that's probably going to be pretty scary and then all the death just the death that's going to occur from from all the wars famines pestilences and all the earthquakes that is going to happen that's the fourth seal just so much death and basically the the third third and the fourth seal within within the beginning of sorrows to me is probably going to be the most scary but that's going to be absolutely nothing compared to when we see the abomination of desolation and then that kicks off the grip that what's what i call the great tribulation that's found in matthew 24 21 because the reason why that's the most scary is because that's when the antichrist is going to wage war against us the christians the saints see during the during the beginning of sorrows he's just going he's just going for everyone the whole world and that's you can see more detail about that in revelation 12. um you know there the antichrist is waging war against what's called the woman in chapter 12 and there's many opinions about who the woman is but if you just look if you just look it says woe to the inhibitors of the earth and the sea because the devil has come unto you of having great wrath so he's waging war against all inhibitors of the earth and all the inhibitors of the sea so right there it answers your question about who the woman is really so it's everyone but once the great tribulation happens uh this is 1260 days into into daniel's 70th week and that's also in revelation 12 6 about the 12 60 that's when he focuses on us and that's when it's going to get really scary that's when you know you're going to see you're going to know for sure who the antichrist is because he's going to set up that image in the temple and then he and then the false prophet there's going to be some religious figure that's going to come and cause cause people to make that image and cause people to worship it and cause people to get a mark the you know the infamous infamous mark of the beast you know and and when you talk about the mark of the beast do you think this will end up sort of being like an rfid chip or something else if you had to just guess off the top of your head well the thing is about the the mark he gives three options he says you can either have the mark or you can have the name of the beast or you can have his number but you know i think the mark is probably going to be what you're saying some kind of rfid or some kind of some kind of a transmitter that that will connect to your phone or whatever that will verify that you bought something or not and i think it's probably going to be tied into some centralized cryptocurrency system too probably yeah and i also agree with you about the woman in revelation chapter 12 that i think she kind of just represents mankind and what we see is that the devil will begin during the beginning of sorrows with an attack on all of mankind but it's at the midpoint where that attack shifts and becomes a lot more specific to the saints christians and that's when christian persecution reaches its climax and is worse than it's ever been before and if i'm going to answer my own question i would say really that fifth seal when that is opened i think will be the scariest time that we ever experience if we live to see that day because i believe it'll be a time in which christians are going to be hunted down and killed in the streets i believe that it's going to be a very very difficult time for those who are saved because we will be public enemy number one the bible says and you shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake and it talks about the love of many shall wax cold and specifically when it comes to the great tribulation the bible talks about it and says and then shall be great tribulations such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time no nor ever shall be so there's never been a time like it before and that's because it'll be a time in which the anti-christ who is by that point inhabited by the devil himself which is why he's called the son of perdition is literally hunting down and systematically eliminating christians and if it wasn't for the rapture no flesh would be saved the bible says i mean jesus christ makes that clear that this is going to be so severe so painful and so uh just horrific for the saved that if it wasn't for the rapture no one would be saved and what i mean by that is obviously saved from the persecution of the anti-christ and getting killed but with regard to the mark of the beast this will be the tool used to eliminate christians because of course those who reject it will be decapitated and i think you can go to revelation 20 to prove that but if i'm going to answer my own question i would say that now i wanted to very quickly here just provide people with a basic outline of what's going on with your chart so again we talked about it the very first half the beginning of sorrows there which consists of the first four seals the first four seals that are open the first one is where the man of sin the anti-christ he goes forth conquering into conquer the way i look at this is he's kind of rising to the top of the new world order power structure and the second seal world war peace taken from the earth wars breaking out all over the planet then the third seal the black horse well that is when they're going to be famines and pestilences and earthquakes on this earth the fourth seal death a quarter of the earth die and you can say courtesy of the wars and the famines that preceded the fourth seal that's the beginning of sorrows that's the devil attacking the entire world all of mankind the fifth steel which starts at the midpoint that's where martyrs appear in heaven and they are killed by the anti-christ and they appear in heaven and they beg god to begin to judge the earth and that's exactly what he does the sixth seal if you compare it with matthew 24 mark 13 and first thessalonians chapter 4 it's clearly in reference to the rapture the sun and moon are darkened the stars fall this is where the saved are raptured it's the resurrection it's where we receive our glorified bodies and then the seventh seal which happens on that same day that's when god's wrath is poured out on this world and then following that well this is where you get the trumpet and vial judgments i'm not going to go through all of them for sake of time but you have the seven trumpets you have the seven vials all culminating in what i would say is the season finale if you want to call it that the finale of god's wrath the three woes of revelation which correspond with trumpet and vial five six and seven and brother mike for me what kind of hit me is when i was studying the three woes of revelation the finale of god's wrath and specifically once you get to trump seven and vial seven the bible talks about cities of the nations falling the bible says the cities of the nations fell and that happens at the seventh vial which i believe the trumpet and vial judgments are concurrent they happen at the same time but mike what we're looking at there when you get all the way to the end of that seventh trumpet that seventh vial judgment the climax of god's wrath the finale of god's wrath through those three woes of revelation the cities of the nation falling you're gonna see multiple 9 11s happening all at the same time globally people and rightfully so they talk about 9 11 they say things like never forget and people talk about how this was a historic day in america where the twin towers fell it was an inside job of course but my point is you know this was a historic event well 9 11 you're gonna have multiple 9 11s that happen all over the world at that seventh vial and it's not only that a little bit yeah it comes to god's wrath the terrifying nature of it so you're focusing on the the seventh trumpet in the seventh vial that's right and yes there's there's going to be an earthquake so great that every building is gonna pancake on itself really and then you got these big hailstones and it talks about how much the hailstones weigh and i did a calculation based on the density of of ice and of packed snow and basically those hailstones are going to be about this big around can you imagine those hailstones falling on cars falling on buildings and just leveling everything and you don't want to be under one of those hailstones you know those will flatten you that's right but basically that's trumpet number seven that's when god turns his wrath on all the nations of the world he's he's leveling all the nations and then he then he has his special judgment on babylon and then of course you have armageddon where he fights against the anti-christ and the anti-christ nation so you bring up babylon the destruction of babylon and one thing that kind of confused me at first when i was studying this subject is i didn't understand why the second half was 1290 days and in the first half was 1260 days and i thought well where are the extra 30 days coming from and there's really two reasons for this the first one is that there's elite month at the very end of this seven year period because that's just how the hebrew calendar works but you brought up the destruction of babylon and you brought up armageddon but babylon is judged it's destroyed in one hour then you had armageddon then you have the millennium technically speaking though it's at that seventh trumpet where the bible says the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of uh our lord and of and of christ but here's my point though that final 30 days right you look at that final 30 days and the bible says that the two witnesses by the way we see it on your chart let me pull this up very quickly so we're looking at your chart again and the two witnesses prophesy the ministry of the two witnesses last for according to revelation chapter 11 and verse 3 1260 days now it starts at the midpoint it goes through to the end but that second half is actually a 1290 day period there's a leap month added but that means that there's a 30 day section where several different events have to occur and i believe i want to get your thoughts on this it's during that last month that last 30 day period where you have not only the the seventh trumpet sounding but you also have the destruction of babylon and you have the battle of armageddon occurring in that final month before the millennium is actually set up on the earth and i believe according to your chart that's exactly what you indicate here and you talk about 30 days at the bottom right hand corner of the screen an extra 1.4 percent so do you agree with me on that that that's kind of when babylon is destroyed and an armageddon takes place yes absolutely um jesus doesn't need 1260 days to do all that he only needs well he could do it he could do everything at the snap of the finger but he's doing this because it's it's basically the leap month it's the it's the additional 30 days that uh all these nations falling babylon and the the beast the kingdom of the beast and all the other nations of this world he's he's coming back to this earth he actually comes back uh armageddon steps foot on the earth and reclaims all the nations and then basically he hands out all the power he gives all all of his servants all of all the saints um in charge of all the nations and all of the cities for themselves and that's going to be awesome and that's that's that we're going to rule and reign with him for a thousand years of course he'll be in charge of us yeah it'll be a great time obviously that'll be when the laws of god are finally enacted on this earth and we're going to have the lord jesus christ ruling and reigning but one other thing i wanted to bring up as well and this is out of daniel chapter number eight and i'll start reading in verse 13 where the bible said then i heard one saint speaking and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake how long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot and he said unto me unto two thousand and three hundred days then shall the sanctuary be cleansed and that two thousand three hundred day period is denoted on your chart here which concerns the beginning of the daily sacrifice all the way to the end moving past through the abomination of desolation but what's interesting is we often say that we will know for sure that we're in the tribulation period for a hundred percent sure once we see the abomination of desolation set up in the rebuilt temple in jerusalem and what i mean by that for those of you who are new is the antichrist will literally set up an image in the temple and declare himself to be god only those who worship that image will then be able to procure the mark of the beast and buy or sell but here's what's interesting about that is technically speaking the bible says that daily sacrifices will begin in the temple in jerusalem 250 days into daniel's 70th week and we find that out by doing some math i don't want to get into it right now but i talked about it last night after church with a friend of mine but uh mike technically speaking if we know when the daily sacrifice begins if they make some kind of public announcement the daily sacrifice has begun then technically we would know all right we're actually in the tribulation and we're or i guess the beginning of sorrows excuse me we would know we're in the beginning of sorrows no problem and that we're 250 days into it what do you think about that well that would be a pretty strong indicator i wouldn't say it'd be a for sure thing because they could build the temple they could start a sacrifice and then for some other reason they call it off and then later on they they started again you know that's how do we know if if that's if that's the exact one you know there's only one sign that that we can know for absolute sure and that's the abomination of desolation um and i think second thessalonians too kind of lays that out um but like i said it's a very strong indicator you know if we're in world war and they start a daily sacrifice in a rebuilt temple in jerusalem i would probably i'd probably put money down and say we're in it but i wouldn't know for sure you know yeah i don't think we can be 100 sure until the abomination of desolation takes place and we keep referencing this so i'll just read it for the listeners out there second thessalonians chapter two it says that we beseech you brethren by the coming of our lord jesus christ and by our gathering together unto him that you be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter as from us as that the day of christ is at hand so he's like hey you pre-trippers out there you know don't you're wrong and in fact don't listen to these people that say the day of christ is at hand because certain things have to happen verse three let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition who opposeth and exalted himself above all that is called god out of his worship so that he as god sitteth in the temple of god showing himself that he is god and that happens at the midpoint so this is a great chart we could talk about this forever let's move on to the next chart that you had on your website and this one deals with the kingdoms of the world symbolism kingdoms of the world symbolism chart and you have several different kingdoms that are illustrated in this chart the first one deals with the kingdoms that are represented by Nebuchadnezzar's dream the great image the statue that he dreams about and you can read about that in daniel chapter number two and these different the different sections of the statue represent different excuse me they represent different kingdoms the head of gold representing the babylonian empire the chest and arms of silver representing the medo-persian empire the sort of dual kingdom the belly and thighs of brass being symbolic of the greek empire and then the legs of iron pointing us to most likely rome and probably a dual fulfillment there perhaps involving babylon usa and then the toes the ten toes being representative of the anti-christ kingdom which he establishes later on at the midpoint of daniel 70th week but then you also have on this chart the four beasts of daniel chapter number seven the lion with eagle's wings representing babylon the bear which is symbolic of the medo-persian empire the four-headed leopard being a symbol of the greek empire which ended up splitting into four separate kingdoms and out of those four kingdoms you had one individual who was a very strong foreshadowing of the anti-christ by the name of antiakis epiphanies and then you had the fourth dreadful beast which had ten horns and this during daniel's time and i guess you could say the initial fulfillment of this would have been the roman empire which happened later on it was a sort of a near future application for daniel but of course also pointing us to the anti-christ's kingdom and then you have the revelation 17 symbology there the seven mountains on which the great whore of babylon sits and what those represent the first one being egypt the second is syria the third babylon the fourth medo-persian empire the fifth grisia or the greek empire the sixth being rome and then the seventh kingdom or king actually being in reference to the united states or babylon mystery babylon and then the eighth being sort of a anti-christ new world order which is being led by a religious figure the anti-christ as a religious figure who had risen from the dead quote unquote by some sort of satanic event and you have that on the chart as well so i just wanted to give people a quick background on this but regarding this particular chart obviously you refer to the beast and daniel i wanted to talk about that actually let's start off with the with the statue right here and when you look at this statue specifically when it comes to the ten toes of the statue and we see them illustrated in the top right hand corner of the screen these toes are mixed in with miry clay i'm not sure if you've thought about this before i'm putting you on the spot i didn't i didn't tell you i was gonna ask this but i figured let me see what you think what does the clay represent so you have the toes and you have the clay there as part of the statue that buchanan's dream what if you had to guess just totally off top of your head what do you think have you ever thought about this what what does the clay represent there well it says that the clay um it's part of iron and part of clay you know so the kingdom will be partially strong and partially broken yes let me read that on the end sorry i'm sorry to interrupt let me go ahead and read that scripture very quickly and then i'll let you continue your point just for people to understand what we're talking about daniel chapter 2 what brother mike just referenced there verse 41 and whereas thou sawest the feet and toes part of potter's clay and part of iron the kingdom shall be divided but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron for as much as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay and as the toes of the feet were part of iron and part of clay so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly broken go ahead i just wanted to make sure people knew what we were referring to the toes daniel 2 daniel 2 42 i think um basically i think what that means is you know you got some strong some broken you got 10 toes and then you got the 10 horns in the daniel 7 and that's also in uh revelation as well i believe um basically what that is is these are different nations and i think at first they're going to have opposing views differing opinions but that's not until the anti-christ comes the anti-christ comes seduce three kings and reinstates three more and all of them are in one accord with one another from that point on so i think i think what the what the uh iron and the miry clay is is just the fact saying it's saying that they're different nations some are strong nations some are not so strong nations that's exactly my view as well it's just a theory but i would say probably you have some nations that are very strong and some that are weak the weaker nations being represented by the clay and they're mixed in but not really and and i think what that's trying to say basically they cleave one to another it talks about even as iron is not mixed with clay so they're not they actually don't mix with each other but i think what it's trying to explain is that even though there is a planetary government and that's what this kingdom essentially is there's a new world order that the different nations still retained their identity their national identity yes like you could still look at somebody and go okay that's a mexican or that's a that's a japanese person or that's a south korean whatever i think yeah we're still gonna have we're still gonna have all the nations even all the way into the anti-christ kingdom because it still says in revelation all over the place nations languages tongues and so on and so forth it's just that there's going to be a structure that rules those nations the anti-christ will rule those nations uh at that time right now we have like the un that's kind of in place and they have i think they still have five permanent uh security generals or something like that so there's only five horns at the time if you're going off of what what the un has right and the bible does talk about when it comes to the anti-christ it says that all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world and so you're right in the sense that there's going to be the anti-christ will rule over multiple different nations and they do retain their identity and i think that's what it means when it says and as the toes of the feet were part of iron and part of clay so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly broken talking about some nations are strong some are weak but then in the latter portion of verse 43 in daniel chapter 2 when it says the iron is not mixed with clay that's where i believe it's just talking about how the weaker nations will retain and the stronger nations that will change they will retain their national identity but i thought i'd get your thoughts on that now when it comes to the beasts in daniel 7 and i had a theory about this i wanted to run by you here on the air but you have the lion the bear the leopard the ten horned beast all in daniel chapter 7 i talked about what they are symbolic of but then when you flip over to revelation chapter 13 which i will do myself just to demonstrate my point in revelation chapter 13 the bible says and starting in verse 1 and i stood upon the sand of the sea and saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns and upon his horns ten crowns and upon his heads the name of blasphemy so we have a beast coming out of the sea and then verse 2 it says in the beast which i saw was like unto a leopard so we see the leopard is mentioned here the leopard was also found in daniel chapter 7 his feet were as the feet of a bear also mentioned in daniel 7 his mouth is the mouth of a lion which was also mentioned in daniel chapter number 7 and then it says in the dragon gave him his power and his seed and great authority so this is my question you see a beast with seven heads ten horns the same attributes as the one that isn't is found in in daniel chapter 7 when it comes to the ten horned beast in daniel chapter 7 so what i'm trying to say is the four beasts in daniel 7 we see in the one singular beast in revelation 13 i don't believe that's coincidental the anti-christ kingdom okay what i'm trying to say is as powerful this is my theory that it's going to be as powerful as the babylonian empire the medo-persian empire the greek empire and the roman empire combined because those four beasts in daniel 7 appear in the one revelation 13 beast what's that communicating to us that the anti-christ system the anti-christ kingdom will be as powerful as those four prior global empires combined that's my whole core put together exactly yeah and if you look at my chart and you look at the the um the beast that i kind of put together there that i depicted it's it's the one on the right bottom if you look at the lion so you have the head of a lion the mouth of the lion right so i have seven lion heads there right and then i have the body of a leopard and basically the the lion is from the third kingdom revelation 17 7 says that this beast this scarlet colored beast is of the seven right yes so the 10 horns are from the seventh kingdom uh the kingdom of rome no i'm sorry so it's the seventh kingdom babylon and the lion is from the third kingdom which is babylon the body which is of the leopard is from the fifth kingdom which is grisia and the bear is from the fourth kingdom which is medio-persia and it's interesting that he chose the body being from the leopard because where did the first big illustration of the anti-christ rise from it rises from the kingdom of grisia which is the leopard that's a good point that's a really good point i had never thought of that before and you look at are you kind of referencing entychus epiphanies or somebody else entychus epiphanies yes he was the he was the little horn that came from the that arose from the four little horns and that name meets god manifest yes it does further proof that we're talking from daniel chapter 8 yes daniel chapter 8 and chapter 11 deal with the kingdom of grisia the greek empire which split into four different kingdoms and out of one of them came entychus epiphanies it was a very strong foreshadowing of the anti-christ and history and sort of a historical shadow fulfillment if you will i like to use the phrase layered fulfillment and i think whatever you want to use is fine but you know there are different sort of shadow fulfillments or layered fulfillments that have occurred throughout history all leading us to really the end times and that's what ultimately the bible points us to through those different passages but that's a really cool point i never thought of before now when it comes to the seven mountains in revelation chapter 17 the bible kind of refers to them as seven kings as well which obviously a king is leading a kingdom but these are according to this chart i agree 100 with this egypt a syria babylon middle media and persia grisia the sixth kingdom which is at that point as john the revelator is writing that would be rome then the one that is to come later is the united i think the united states i personally believe that mystery babylon is the united states and yeah basically if go ahead if this happens soon if this happens within the next few years or 10 years 20 years it's probably babylon usa um but if if this ain't gonna happen for you know the daniel 70th week if this is like another 100 years which i doubt and some other kingdom kind of rises to world power and is like a nation or city that is a coastal city where all the ships can uh you know ship their goods to this city and there they live deliciously and the queen and and no one messes with them they're the strongest in the world then i would probably change my chart and say that that is what it is if i'm still alive around that time right well revelation 17 it says and here's the mind which hath wisdom the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth and there are seven kings five are fallen and one is and the other is not yet come and when he cometh he must continue a short space so in my mind the the reason why it says he must continue a short space is because this is in reference to the anti-christ as a political figure which doesn't last very long then verse 11 and the beast that was and is not even he is the eighth and is of the seven and go with the perdition so this is the anti-christ as a false messiah figure when he comes back from the dead leading a super global plutocracy that ends up nuking babylon towards the end of daniel's 70th week and basically just wipes it out but he's of the seven right he's of that seventh one because it's the anti-christ coming back from the dead after he receives a deadly wound to the head what do you think about that yeah absolutely and like you said even when we're in daniel's 70th week there's the first three and a half years where you had he's only a political figure you know he's probably going to be prominent we'll probably see a very charismatic political leader at that time but it's not until he receives that deadly wound and rises from the dead basically imitating what jesus what happened with jesus except jesus was crucified but he'll receive a deadly wound he'll raise from the dead and he'll set up that image in the temple and call himself god and then that's when he turns to being a religious leader well and a political leader too but you know what caught my eye what i like about your chart is well here on the right hand side it says in orange this little horn who is the beast will arise and subdue three kings and you reference daniel 7 24 most likely during the fourth seal of revelation six seven and eight since there is death in a quarter of the earth and will come to full power in the midst of daniel 70th week he will reinstate three new kings and have power over all ten so this is sort of an interesting thought here because obviously the beast has seven heads and it has ten horns now the seven heads represent seven mountains on which the horse sits the whore of babylon and we know what those seven mountains are symbolic of i already went over it egypt a syria babylon medo persia greek rome and then the seventh one being mystery babylon or i guess the united states of america is what we are surmising here in 2023 but those 10 horns those 10 kings they exist and you you can correct me if i'm wrong here but they exist before the midpoint these 10 kings and what happens is at some point before the midpoint and it looks like you're guessing or your theory here is that it actually happens at the fourth seal when a quarter of the earth you know dies but basically three kings are subdued and then it's at the midpoint in which those three kings that were subdued are actually replaced by three other ones and then those 10 kings basically give up their power to the anti-christ and it's the anti-christ who uses them to destroy babylon but what do you say to that yes um again that's that's a theory of mine um that some sometime right before he receives his deadly wound right before the anti-christ dies uh he's i think that's when he's going to subdue those three kings and and that's that's why i was mentioning earlier that you know you got the iron and the clay mixed together you know they don't all agree but it's not until he proves himself to these people that he's god that all of them say okay i'm giving you all the power we're all in one accord right now and uh and that's that's why he has the crowns if you can look at the image again of the beast that i created he has those little crowns on the horns you notice how they're on the horns after the midpoint before the midpoint they're on the heads okay so this this this beast you made this yeah i mean i i took some images and put them together they're actually bare feet they're it's actually a leopard's body and lion's heads wow so all the images i put together based on anything i find in the bible really so the first the first one with you just mentioned the crowns say that one more time for me okay so you notice when you're read revelation 12 there's the dragon right the dragon has seven heads and 10 horns but there's only seven crowns and the seven crowns are on the heads wow if you pay special attention to what how they describe the beast in revelation 13 versus the dragon in revelation 12 you'll see these subtle differences well they're there for a reason then you have revelation 13 beasts the crowns are actually on the horns that makes so much sense so basically the revelation 13 beast it has some it's symbolic of the 10 kings that include the three that were replaced or the three new kids that replaced the ones that were subdued if that makes sense yeah whereas revelation 12 that has the that only has seven crowns and it's missing three seven crowns on the heads and that's the basically just trying to explain that there are going to be three kings that are subdued that's basically what it's symbolic of is that is it kind of what you mean yeah yeah and basically the the um all the different kingdoms that are there it's just all those kingdoms are like ruling in the end times and and during daniel's 70th week and like you said you take you take uh the strength of of babylon the speed of grisia everything the dreadfulness of rome you take all those and lump them together you have the end times kingdom of the beast well i have to admit brother mike i my head is blown my mind is blown i should say uh that is a really cool thought i never thought about that in revelation chapter 12 it says in verse 3 and there appeared another wonder in heaven behold a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns upon his head so in revelation 12 the dragon has crowns on the seven heads the seven heads have seven crowns on them and then in revelation 13 the beast has 10 crowns on the 10 horns yes and then daniel 7 describes 10 kings but three are subdued and then you know obviously you could say that the seven crowns on the on the seven heads is kind of a result of those three kings being subdued and then obviously you know later on those three are replaced and we see them in revelation 13 as 10 kings the three that were subdued are totally replaced by that point so that is pretty cool stuff i'm sure that's probably getting it maybe over the head of some folks that are listening but if you slow down and you really think about it that is a really interesting point there that you make brother mike i had never thought of that before so thank you for pointing that out but one thing i want to say it's pretty cool it is pretty cool and one thing i wanted to say when it comes to these seven mountains here is you point out on your chart the first one pointing to egypt and you kind of bring up ezekiel 31 there and reading ezekiel 31 it's a condemnation of egypt but it compares egypt with asyria and in verse 13 it says upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain and i think that's actually a foreshadowing of the marriage supper of the lamb there and when you read about the king of asyria and certainly pharaoh they are almost pictures of the antichrist and so what i wanted to say is when it comes to each one of those seven kings all of them egypt asyria babylon through neba kineser the medo-persian empire the greek empire rome with titus and then the seventh kingdom obviously being the antichrist himself but my point is is that when you look at all those historical empires each one of them had a very clear picture of the antichrist from alexander the great to titus pharaoh i mean all of these men represented the antichrist in some way yes but the big the big one was anti-ecos epiphanies well when your name literally means god manifest i think that's a pretty yeah that's a pretty and that happened that happened in the midst of the 70 weeks yes yeah which daniel chapter 9 talks about let's move on here i'm already over time i apologize i'll let you go soon uh i'm fine yeah you can keep me as long as you need me okay great so i don't feel too strapped for time but um i wanted to talk about that so you just did a perfect segue for me because the next chart i wanted to go over is your 70 weeks of daniel chart and this one kind of looks at it from a big picture perspective and specifically looking at daniel chapter 9 verses 24 through 27 which i will read for the audience now daniel chapter 9 verses 24 through 27 the bible reads there 70 weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins and to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness and to seal up the vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy now or should say know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build jerusalem under the messiah the prince shall be seven weeks and three score and two weeks the street shall be built again and the wall even in trouble as times and after three score and two weeks shall messiah be cut off but not for himself and the people the prince that shall come shall destroy the city of the sanctuary and the end thereof shall be with a flood and under the end of the war desolations are determined and he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week this is the 70th week that we've been talking about throughout the whole stream and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the ablation to cease and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate so it's really that period the seven weeks the 62 weeks there's a gap and then a period of seven years now looking at your chart here brother mike i notice and maybe you can help me understand let's look at number two there it says jerusalem rebuilt this is is that the cyrus declaration to rebuild jerusalem is that kind of what this is supposed to be pointing us to there jerusalem rebuilt some people may believe that you know i i think i i used to believe that before that uh i'm looking at item number one from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build jerusalem i used to think that was siren the decree from cyrus but after really looking at what it says and also looking at the dates that these things happened i don't believe that anymore at all i i believe that this was the decree of artaxerxes to rebuild jerusalem because the decree of cyrus was to build the temple but number two it says the street shall be built again and the wall so it's the streets in the wall and it also says going forth with the commandment to restore and to build jerusalem so this is the whole city that that it's talking about gotcha so i personally believe you know other others can believe that it's cyrus that's fine i personally believe that this is talking about the decree of artaxerxes artaxerxes that's in ezra that's in ezra seven as richard all right gotcha and then you have jerusalem rebuilt their sort of in between that seven week and 62 week period yes now so yeah go ahead so others may believe that this is broken up and there's a gap between the seven i was going to ask about that so i've heard that there's a gap between the seven week and 62 weeks give me your perspective i personally believe that there's not a gap and the reason i believe that is because let's focus on the seven weeks first so seven so there's seven weeks um know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build jerusalem on to the messiah the prince shall be seven weeks plus and three score and two weeks and then it says the streets shall be built again and the wall even in troubleless times so i believe number two is the ending point of the seven weeks the street shall be built again and the wall so the rebuilding is the ending point of that seven weeks so if there is a gap between the seven weeks and the 62 weeks what is the point in this text that is saying kicks off the 62 weeks i don't know that's a good question yeah there's there's no starting point of the 62 weeks if we say the ending of the seven weeks is when the streets are built again and the wall so i believe what that's saying is that there's seven weeks of a rebuilding period and then once the city is rebuilt then you have from that point on 62 weeks till messiah the prince if you want to put a gap in there i'm calling the 62 weeks the gap i guess all right so you basically have that seven week or 49 year period where jerusalem is kind of in a rebuilding state and then it's totally finished after that seven week period or the 49 years and then between jerusalem being rebuilt to calvary is a period of 434 years do i have that right well 434 years from the beginning of the ministry of jesus so it's 62 weeks three score and two weeks unto the messiah the prince gotcha okay and then you have about three and a half years till the crucifixion because it says and after doesn't say immediately after three score and two weeks shall messiah be cut off you're right that that's my mistake you're right yeah after three score and two weeks that's when calvary occurs that's when he dies on the cross so to the ministry of christ is a 434 year period from the rebuilding of jerusalem all the way to the ministry of christ is 434 years yeah and then it says and then of course after that it says that the people of the prince shall come and destroy the city in the sanctuary that's also after the 434 years but it's not immediately after yeah absolutely now some people look at this and they say well this is talking about jesus there the people of the prince that shall come when it describes that let me just read the verse right here in daniel chapter nine and verse uh where we at here verse number 26 it says and the people the prince that shall come shall destroy the city the sanctuary there end up shall be with a flood and under the end of the war desolate is our determinant he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week now verse 27 specifically the he there in verse 27 some people say is talking about jesus whereas i believe it's talking about the anti-christ and the antecedent of the pronoun there the he is actually in reference to the prince that shall come and the prince there being the anti-christ so he is the anti-christ in verse 27 he confirms a covenant with many for one week that's the seven-year period of daniel 70th week in the midst of the week he causes the sacrifice to cease through the abomination of desolation when the daily sacrifice ceases the daily sacrifice we talked about earlier that starts 250 days into the seven years so that ceases that done he sets up the abomination of desolation and you have the rest of it so i think that's talking about the anti-christ there in verse 27 but there are some who say it's talking about jesus what do you think about that perspective and kind of the argument about verse 27 that is out there i think that's a foolish view really that there's they're saying that that's jesus because jesus doesn't he doesn't commit the abomination of desolation which talks about uh for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate it's not jesus that's doing that and it says the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city in the sanctuary your antecedent is the prince that shall come it's the people of the prince that destroyed jerusalem in the temple well who who are the people of the prince who are the people of g let's let's say that that's jesus who are the people of jesus it's not the it's not the jews it's not the pharisees it's not those it's christians christians didn't destroy jerusalem in the temple that's stupid you know i don't believe that for a second i agree 100 yeah and it said if you read if you read daniel seven and daniel eight it's the little horn that causes that basically by him the daily sacrifice is taken away and the place of the sanctuary is cast down and you can read about the little horn you know for sake of time i won't really go into that but basically it talks about the little horn being the anti-christ it's the anti-christ that commits the abomination of desolation and i think it's these pre i think it's these preterists that come up with that with that view about it being jesus and they say these preterists piss me off sometimes they say that these 70 weeks all happen together without any gap at all basically they're saying that hey these 70 weeks are are jesus we're focused on jesus it's all about jesus it's all about jesus right that's what they say but if you start with the text 70 weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city so what's it about is it about jesus no it's about the about his people and the holy city right and i think a lot of people too they look at this passage these preterists and they want to say well this has nothing to do the anti-christ is all jesus and then it just leads to some very weird views like i've heard them say we're actually in the fifth seal right now and and so at that point they've kind of come full circle with the pre-trippers out there who believe in immanency pre-trippers believe the rapture could happen at any point in time because they believe it happens before the tribulation and then some of these preterists out there who believe that we're in the fifth seal well they also believe that the rapture could happen at any time because according to them we're in the fifth seal so you know what's the next event to happen the sixth seal which is the rapture so i agree i think when you get goofed up on daniel chapter 9 it leads down a very weird path and and i certainly don't believe in this idea that it's talking about jesus and and i also think it it messes up basically what the captivity even symbolizes because you have 70 years of captivity for judah and then they're released and they come back into the land well think about that how that's a great parallel with the end times because in daniel chapter 9 it talks about the 70th week of daniel it talks about how the you know basically the people the prince that shall come are going to end up leaving this desolate talks about the abomination of desolation and all the rest of it the ender up shall be with the flood etc but my point is is that the events of the end times are kind of paralleled with the captivity of judah because at the end of daniel's 70th week what do you have christians going back to the land that was promised to abraham and his seed christians jew or gentile doesn't matter those who are in christ they set up christ's kingdom we all rule and reign all over the world but obviously you know you have jesus christ and the 12 tribes in jerusalem again and babylon gets destroyed and a new kingdom comes amen yeah exactly right so you have the captivity ending with basically the jews going back to their land and then you have the end of daniel's 70th week you know the culmination of that is christians going to jerusalem and jesus christ setting up his kingdom from jerusalem so there's kind of a parallel there that gets all screwed up when you want to say that daniel nine is talking about jesus yeah yeah i'm not going to entertain that thought anymore it's just it's a stupid thought well thank you for sharing this chart here i really like this let's move on to the next one that i wanted to talk about and the next one i have on my list are the four shadowings this one is so awesome and the reason why is because the bible is so deep and there are so many cool foreshadowings of the post-trib pre-wrath rapture and i'm careful to say that because these aren't just pictures of the rapture but we're actually looking at foreshadowings of the post-trib pre-wrath rapture yes and some of the ones that you have laid out on your chart you have the feast of the lord now this one specifically when i studied the feast of the lord and how they're perfectly paralleled with the timing of the rapture i literally fell out of my chair like i i was just in shock and how cool this is and how the feast of trumpets is in perfect alignment with the abomination of desolation and then the day of atonement when it falls during the year of jubilee pictures the rapture because of the trumpet of the jubilee that sounds on the day of atonement the 10th day of the seventh month which corresponds to 53 of the hebrew calendar year which is exactly when the rapture happens 53 into daniel's 70th week really cool stuff you also have on this chart the 70 weeks of daniel i'll ask you about that in a second you have the generations of adam enos to the flood now this one is also really cool when you look at the life of enoch from his birth to the flood he's translated he's taken out he's translated carried to heaven right 53 into that time period from his birth to the flood which also corresponds to the rapture and then you brought this up earlier but the release of jehoiachin from prison in jeremiah chapter 52 the 37th year of his captivity when he's released and given a change of garments which points to the glorified body the change of garments that we receive that happens 53 into the 70 years of judah's captivity and then the sea of galilee when jesus walked on water and how basically you know 53 into that journey when the when jesus meets the disciples as he walks on water they kind of spawn over to the other side of the sea of galilee there but it'd be awesome to be there to witness that that would have certainly been awesome to experience looking at all these foreshadowings which one do you like the best well i like i like um well before i like the generations of adam enos to the flood and the reason is because that is so much more of a coincidence apparent coincidence than any of the others the reason is is because from enos the taiwan men began to call upon the name of the lord all the way to the flood is 1421 years and it hits the mark perfectly at the 752nd year the calendar year the the feast of the lord you only have 360 days it's still a big coincidence mind you but we're talking with the with enos we're talking for 1421 years well i recently just a couple weeks ago found even a bigger coincidence than that one yes and i want to get to that i know you have brought that up you had brought that up and we're going to reveal your new foreshadowing i think i think that's my new favorite one okay let's get to that in one second but before we do because i'm geeking out right now all right how did you figure out the time from the birth of enoch when men began to call him the name of the lord to the flood that it's 1421 years how does somebody calculate that on their own if they want to okay well first of all i'll issue the following warning what you're about to see contains some math which viewers may find disturbing and offensive your discretion is advised okay so first of all do you want me to show this here first so basically this is in reference to daniel 12 12 daniel 12 12 says blessed is he that waited and cometh to the thousand three hundred five and thirty days and then it says go thy way daniel for thou shalt rest and stand in thy lot at the end of the days so this 1335 days is when i submit that the rapture happens into daniel's 70th week i agree so if you take those seven years of 30 day months which is two thousand five hundred and twenty days you take 1335 and divide that by by uh 2250 you get point point five two nine eight you round that up to 53 so essentially the rapture happens 53 into daniel's 70th week yes and so the one that i'm referring the the illustration we're referring to is the period of time in genesis where you have the birth of enos which is the time when men began to call upon the name of the lord that's in that is a very random statement in genesis and i always wondered why is that there well i found a lot of reasons why that's there just just by looking at my charts and developing them and one of them is right here so from the time men began to call upon the name of the lord to when enos got translated it's 572 years you can add these numbers up from the generations um if you go to my chart uh exact age of the earth really quick i'm gonna go there myself okay let me go there myself here the exact age of the earth all right the true age of the earth and what year did you produce this true age of the earth chart just out of curiosity well my current version is uh april 24 2023 so recently but i think um i started this chart maybe about two to three years ago and you know what sermon got me inspired to do that one you take a guess pastor anderson's sermon on the age of the earth yeah there you go so you have to kind of go to every year i'm guessing right 6378 next year yeah so i these charts are living so they get it updated constantly so we're at the true age of the earth i have it pulled up on the screen okay now as far as this goes here can you still see me okay uh let me take so the chart off so i can see you all right go for it okay so we have to add up the years from the time of enos all the way up to the time of enoch so you have 90 years you know enos lived 90 years remember we got to start at the birth of enos because that's the time when men began to call upon the name of the lord yes so enos lived 90 years and begat kainan that's in genesis 5 9 kianan lived 70 years and begat mahalel which is in verse 12 of chapter 5 mahalel lived 65 years and begat jared that's in verse 15 then jared lived 162 years and begat enoch that's in genesis 5 18 and then it says that enoch lived 365 years he walked with god and was not because god took him so you add the 365 years to these you get to 725 years if you go through that same exercise so 752 what did i say but you said 25 it's okay don't worry i got you oh i'm so i'm reading it like this yeah i can understand why i can understand you're good okay so if you do that same exercise you start from the time men began to call upon the name of the lord all the way to the flood and do the same exercise and add all these numbers up you come to 1421 years so worse i'm saying that the time that enoch got caught up is 53 percent into this time period between men began men began to call upon the name of the lord to the flood and you take 725 or 752 divided by 1421 you end up with 0.5 0.5292 round that up to 53 percent now is that not the exact same number you get the other way when you do it for the timing of the rapture and daniel's 70th week don't get that exact same number not exactly but but you still run it's almost exact let me see here let's compare so timing of the rapture is 0.5298 and this one here is 0.5292 now i notice with all of these it's it's a tiny bit less just a little bit less because if you exceed this number you end up in the 1336th day or beyond i see and i notice that all of them are a little bit less so that's that's the reason why i believe yeah which makes sense but it's just it's the same thing essentially so that that is a really cool one now when you look at the um the time from men calling on the name of the lord to the flood that second column there 1421 you're you're deriving that number essentially by a genealogy that is found in genesis chapter five yeah genesis chapter five all right but then the the the one about noah being 600 years old at the flood you have to pull that from genesis chapter seven verse six i gotcha okay so we come we come to the birth yeah so we have to make an unbroken chain from enos to the flood methuselah gave birth to noah or i'm sorry lamac gave birth to noah when he was 182 years old so we go from the birth from there we go from the birth of noah to the flood that gives us 600 years and there it is 1421 and it is a picture perfect foreshadowing of the post tribulation pre-wrath rapture wow that is cool stuff and yeah it does require see that's that i think is probably one of the more difficult ones for me just because it requires so much math i mean all of them do but that one specifically doesn't have a clean just like it's 1441 days or something like you kind of have to add it up yourself whereas kind of with the feast days it's a little bit easier i think but let's kind of look at your chart one more time here before we get into the one that you had just discovered let me pull up your foreshadowing chart again for the people to see for themselves and so yeah essentially these are just pictures of the post tribulation pre-wrath rapture the sea of galilee one is very interesting jesus walks on water meets the disciples just over halfway through their journey and then they spawn to the other side of the sea of galilee and then the johuikins captivity went over that enos to the flood we just talked about 1421 year period and well he's quote-unquote raptured out of here 53 into that 53 into that as brother mike just demonstrated for you on camera what is this 70 exact to the day too what is what to explain this one here what what is this doing on your chart the 70 weeks of daniel 490 year period here what what is this talking about let me run over there see where this is okay so 70 weeks of daniel yeah it says 70 weeks of daniel you have the rebuilding complete 10 into it this is another foreshadowing of the rapture sort of or what kind of are you chose the point of making with this no this this one this one doesn't have any illustrations of the rapture or the abomination of desolation but what i found interesting about the 70 weeks of daniel is 10 of the way in you have the rebuilding of jerusalem and in the city basically complete that if you go to daniel's 70th week chart that like you said sacrifice that corresponds to when the sacrifice the daily sacrifice begins okay so that's kind of why you had it in there gotcha and if you ask if you ask any uh jewish person you know why ain't they doing the sacrifices they'll say because we don't have a temple yet so maybe that's the point when the temple will be rebuilt is 10 into daniel's 70th week but one one other interesting thing is um so you you have you know how the i break up the 70 weeks of daniel the first 69 weeks and then you have a big gap before you have the 70th week that's right i believe that's a picture of the leap year or the leap month i should say because if you take if you take that one week and divide that by the 69 previous weeks you end up with the 0.014 which is 1.4 percent let me run over to my daniel's 70th week chart so if you take the last 30 days the last 30 days of daniel's 70th week which is basically the leap month when do they need a leap month they need a leap month one basically 30 days for every six years so if you take those uh 36 i'm sorry 30 days and divide that by uh 2520 the the you know the base 30 the base um seven years of 30 day months of 12 months then you end up with 0.014 also and it's tagged at the end so it's at the end of daniel's 70th week these 30 days and this 70th week in the scope of the 70 weeks is tagged on at the end as well so that's just another coincidence for you right there in the 70 weeks but then um like i said you also have the 10 10 of your way into the 70 weeks of daniel because that's um there shall be seven weeks and three score in two weeks and the streets shall be built again on the wall even in trouble's times so seven weeks divided by 70 weeks gives you point one which is ten percent well that makes a lot of sense i could see what you're illustrating there now when you put it that way that the rebuilding of jerusalem corresponds to the daily sacrifice beginning 250 days or 10 into daniel's 70th week now when it comes to the feast of the lord i found this one to be fascinating when i first learned it pastor anderson he taught this in the revelation series and it went completely over my head the first time i listened to it blew me away yeah what he was talking about but then i studied it for myself and i fell out of my chair when i saw it leviticus 23 says in verse 23 and the lord spake unto moses saying speak unto the children of israel saying in the seventh month in the first day of the month shall ye have a sabbath a memorial a blowing of trumpets and holy convocation now the blowing of the trumpets often points to war numbers chapter 10 proves this let me go this ties in this ties in closely with the book of joel too because there's two trumpets in the book of joel yes joel chapter two has the two trumpets you're talking about correct yes yeah joel chapter two has the two trumpets the first trumpet being um the abomination of desolation the second one being the rapture but let me just head over to numbers chapter 10 and illustrate my point where is it here where's the yeah i think this is what i'm talking about in numbers chapter 10 the alarm of war i think it's numbers chapter 10 and verse is it verse five i believe i'm bringing up my chart here really quick verse four numbers 10 9 numbers 9 okay gotcha that's that's what i'm thinking about thank you numbers chapter 10 verse 9 and if you go to warn your land against the enemy of the press with you then you shall blow an alarm with the trumpets and you shall be remembered before the lord your god and you shall be saved from your enemy so it's talking about how when you go to war that you have to blow the alarm of war the trumpets and here's what's so interesting about that if the feast of trumpets represents the abomination of desolation and numbers 10 9 says that the children of israel when they go to war in their land were to blow the trumpet well think about it this way the antichrist will be making war with the saints we will be at war with the antichrist and so it makes sense for the feast of trumpets the alarm of war to illustrate the abomination of desolation or the catalyst for the antichrist making war with the saints yes and then the let me go back to leviticus 23 again it says in verse number 26 and the lord spake unto moses saying also on the 10th day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement it shall be in holy convocation unto you and you shall afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the lord so the 10th day of the seventh month that represents the rapture it correlates perfectly with the rapture 53 into daniel's 70th week also 53 into the hebrew calendar here you have the day of atonement and of course when this day occurs during the year of jubilee which you can read about in leviticus 25 well they're supposed to verse 9 it says that they're supposed to blow a trumpet it says in leviticus 25 verse 9 then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the 10th day of the seventh month in the day of atonement in the day of atonement yeah yeah in the day of atonement you shall make the trumpet sound throughout all your land and what is the rapture called well it's the last trump according to first corinthians chapter 15 when that last trumpet sounds that's when the rapture happens and so you see the trumpet it's the glorious that's the glorious liberty of the children of israel yes the glorious liberty of the children of israel jubilee yeah and the rapture is sort of referred to with that kind of verbiage in romans chapter 8 let me pull this up here in romans chapter 8 it says verse number 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption unto the glorious liberty of the children of god for we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now but verse 23 but not only they but ourselves also which have the first fruits of the spirit even we ourselves groan within ourselves waiting for the adoption to wit the redemption of our body so the redemption of our body happens at the rapture when we receive our glorified body and when we're set free at liberty from this fleshly body that we have right now the old man amen yeah so that is a perfect parallel i had your chart up on the screen that whole time i just realized it but that is a perfect parallel with the day of atonement happening during the year the year of jubilee which is basically the year of liberty and then you have basically christians getting liberated from this fleshly body at the rapture and the rapture 53 into daniel's 70th week well the day of atonement 53 into the hebrew calendar year i really love that one that's my favorite one if i have to pick so did you kind of have that same reaction when you first studied that out did you almost fall out of your chair too or what i did i fell out of my chair too it was just amazing you know because the reason is is because when when you read daniel 12 right before it it says that from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the the abomination that make it desolate set up there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days and then after that it says um you know blessed is he that come that that weighteth and cometh to the thousand three hundred five and thirty days and a lot of people will take those 1335 days and put them in the same timeline as the 1290 and no that you know when i first heard that it's that it's from the beginning of daniel 70th week instead of where the abomination of desolation is i thought hmm i wonder if there's anything that indicates that that were that's where it should be and with all these illustrations it's just screaming that yes that's where it belongs yeah and of course that's where we get the 75 day number for the great tribulation because you take 1335 and you subtract it by 1260 and it leaves you with 75 right all right so yeah and then let's let's wrap it up with this daniel's right triangle i know you also had the book of daniel but we gotta have to cut that for time here so daniel's right triangle is the last chart that we were going to look at this evening so explain this to me daniel's right triangle okay one day i was like i was studying out end times prophecy and then i was helping my daughter with her math homework and she was doing trigonometry basically for those of you that are math challenged let me just quickly show you what what this is basic trigonometry so you have a right triangle what that means is you have a triangle with the right angle and then you have an angle called theta you have a side opposite of that you have a side adjacent to that and the side opposite of the right of the right angle is called the hypotenuse you have the sine of theta equals the opposite side over the hypotenuse side cosine is adjacent over hypotenuse and tangent is opposite over adjacent so that's just a quick rundown of of what right triangle trigonometry is so i thought what happens if i had put the 1260 on one side of the triangle and the 1335 on the hypotenuse and i just wanted to see what numbers it yielded i checked the length of the side uh adjacent to it i checked the angle opposite of or the the angle adjacent to the 1260 and then i checked the one opposite of the 1260 and was just like whoa that's kind of coincidental that the angle opposite of the 1260 turns out to be 70.7 you may you may be wondering what is the big deal about 70.7 well i looked at that and basically 70th week daniel's 70th week so what is that seven zero 70th is seven zero and week how many days are how many years are in are in the week are in the seven week seven so you have 70 and then seven seventy point seven and if you look at the equation of that the sign of seventy point seven equals 1260 over 1335 now if you read that equation out and plug okay so 1260 i'm going to plug the word abomination of desolation because the abomination desolation happens 1260 into daniel's 70th week and now for 1335 i'm going to plug in the word rapture because that's how far it happens into it and for seventy point seven i'm going to plug the word in daniel's 70th week because you have seven zero and then point week which is seven years so i'm going to put it into words basically what that's saying is the sign of daniel's 70th week is the abomination of desolation that happens before the rapture wow so sign yeah so isn't that cool it's like the sign you know you're going to be in daniel's 70th week is the abomination of desolation and then and then you're going to have the rapture after that so the 70 is the 70th week and then the seven is the seven years yeah so i'll make sure i got that okay and then basically the sign of daniel's 70 week is the abomination of desolation over or proceeds what do you mean precedes here in the bottom or proceeds the rapture comes before the rapture before the i got you okay abomination of desolation precedes the rapture yeah okay that's interesting i like the pastor anderson dr spergel classes there yeah that sets the tone for this one so this is kind of more of just like a fun little coincidence that you found when you were doing some math and you said hey wait a minute there's something to this here and so you put it on a chart yeah it's just one thing i i just tried with the right triangle and boom it just came right up just like you're just too big of a nerd my friend i'm on i need i need a pair of those dr spergel glasses you need a pair of those glasses this whole live stream we both needed them i think but especially you needed some of those purple glasses so i already wear glasses myself so i get to just put some white tape on there and just all right how's it going everyone oh there he's breaking them out there it is all right well brother mike i really appreciate your time this you've been so generous with me i told you one hour and here we are an hour and 56 minutes into this so i apologize for going way over time i just didn't anticipate how deep we were gonna go and i think for those of you who are beginners i tried to make this as accessible as i could for everyone but i don't know that i succeeded because we really went into some deep doctrine on this and looked at this from a deeper angle than i initially anticipated but you know what hey promise we promised another illustration didn't we that is true let's get into that before i let you go one last illustration you said you just found this out you just discovered this i almost forgot thank you for reminding me there was one last illustration you wanted to cover before we land the plane and this is one you discovered recently so let's go ahead and we'll go over this last one the final foreshadowing of the post-rib pre-wrath rapture before we wrap it up tonight the floor is yours brother mike i've been looking forward to this since you told me that you found a new one let's hear it okay so what we need is we need the true age of the earth chart to kind of help with this because this one spans a long period of time and this kind of fell into place for me after i kind of resigned myself to when it comes to the divided kingdom and you add up all the reigns of the kings that that's basically you you add up all their reigns and that's the whole time of the divided kingdom and once i put that into place this kind of uh after i did a little bit of looking around this kind of popped out at me so i'm gonna bring this one up again so this is the timing of the rapture again daniel 12 let's pay close attention to this word thou shalt rest and stand in thy lot so remember those words stand in thy lot at the end of the days 1335 meaning you will be this one i'm calling this is the one i'm calling dividing of the land by lot this is in joshua okay so from the flood all the way up to when let me start here from the flood all the way up to when babylon made the land desolate so this is this is after zedekiah okay we have two thousand one hundred and thirteen years that's a lot of adding up to do and so we got to go through uh the time after the flood add up all the all the ones there from tira abraham isaac jacob the children of israel sojourning in egypt for 430 years uh the time of the judges the time of the divided kingdom david solomon you have that many years according to my chart there may be some other ways to figure out how long the divided kingdom or the time of the judges is but i just added up the reigns i just added up the times of the judges and filled in some gaps so now from the time from the flood to the time the land was divided by lot after the children of israel wandered in the wilderness you add all those up that comes to one thousand one hundred and nineteen years okay so you take one thousand one hundred nineteen and divide it by two thousand one hundred and thirteen you get point five two nine six 53 percent it's right there folks i mean you can't deny that how ridiculously how ridiculously accurate is that if you tweak it by one year it's not going to work wow because it's going to take into the 1336 day that's if you tweak the let's tweak the second number the 1201 on the 12 the 2 112 and tweak it by one once again that takes you beyond into the 1336 day not the 1335 day so the reason why i think i'm calling that one my favorite is because that confirms that all the times of the judges and all the times of the dividing the divided kingdom i'm barking up the right tree and one other thing that i noticed after i after i changed the length of time of the divided kingdom into 394 years uh if you look at my chart the time from the creation to the flood 1656 600 1656 years this this blue line 1656 from creation of the flood and now you look at the time from the exodus to the crucifixion you have 1041 years and you have 615 years add those two numbers up the four the 1041 plus the 615 1656 same as the creation to the flood are you tracking with me or at least i'm tracking i'm tracking so you have some so this the same amount of years from the creation to the flood is the same amount from the exodus to the crucifixion okay i see so it's like you have some so it's like you have some symmetry there yes there is symmetry and you have the desolation right here it says 586 bc the the first temple being destroyed yes so that's after zedekiah and that's um after all the children of israel are totally removed from their land i see so that's how you were able to get the number and then basically you you you figured out from there that the children of israel getting their land divided by a lot corresponds essentially to the rapture because it's 53 into this yeah if you look at where we where we get the timing of the rapture itself daniel 12 it even says that daniel's going to stand in his lot lot you look at the wording and compare it it's right there right his lot so you have daniel standing in his lot 53 into the daniel 70th week and then you have the children of israel getting their land divided by lot 53 percent 53 percent yeah the time period that spans say can you just remind me the flood the flood yeah from the flood all the way to the desolation when they know the the desolation okay gotcha yeah okay so the destruction do you mean the destruction of the the temple is that what you mean by desolation yes all right so the destruction uh from the flood to the destruction of the temple 53 into that time period the children of israel their land is divided by a lot corresponding to the rapture yes that's correct is that going to be turned into a chart for us yes i'm going to put that illustration in there i don't know how i'm going to fit it in but somehow i will well i hope you do very soon well let me tell you something that blew my mind that's enough there were several mind-blowing moments on this stream but that one was was certainly one of them wow that was good stuff well mike i mean you certainly delivered the goods tonight i really appreciate you coming on and i guess we'll go ahead and wrap it up now you know we talked a lot about end times prophecy we talked about you know what's going to happen in the future the rapture timing of the rapture all of this stuff the beginning of sorrows these are all different prophetic milestones that must come to pass before the end and basically to wrap all of this up i wanted to give you the floor what in your mind should people do to prepare for the end times well the biggest thing is don't worry about stockpiling food don't worry about becoming a prepper i don't think that's going to do anything the biggest thing you can do is is live godly in christ jesus live for the lord and go out and win souls you know if you're useful to god god's going to want to keep you around during the great tribulation you know that's right he's going to basically during the great tribulation the end of christ is going to hunt down all the christians but god is probably going to he's probably going to spare those somehow who are doing more work for him it says in that time period that many many people will be strong and commit exploits that's in daniel and if if that's what you if that's what you're going to want to do to prepare that's that's my biggest suggestion right there i think i'm losing my ear bud again no amen i'm 100 with you that's what we need to do is we need to win souls to christ we need to live for the lord and not worry so much about the carnal things and the things of this world and that'll set ourselves up to be successful during that time to do great exploits like the bible references there in daniel chapter 11 but i appreciate your time here brother mike again thank you so much for going over these charts with me and talking bible prophecy we went in depth here on this live stream and touched on a number of different avenues or different components if you will of this topic and really i think dove into it from a deep perspective looking at foreshadowing looking at some of the pictures there and basically all the information that you put on the trash i shouldn't even say all just sort of a small piece of the information that you have in these charts because we didn't have time to go over all of it but i think that it was really interesting to get your thought process on how you put these together and kind of what you're trying to communicate through each one of these charts just to make it a little bit more digestible for people out there who are trying to learn about prophecy well thank you again mike i appreciate it god bless you and is there anything else you want to say before i let you go hey i appreciate you having me on this this has um been a pleasure i love talking bible prophecy and i love anyone that has any questions about my charts i'm happy to answer even if they're strong disagreements you know um but it's it's been a pleasure being on your live stream and i look forward to maybe another one or whenever i have a lot more i can share too i would love to have you on again this won't be the last time that i bother you to come on the stream because i would love to have you on and and i think what we could do next time is maybe pinpoint it to just one specific chart or topic or something like that and then just go nuts with it and geek out so that'll be a lot of fun but uh yeah i'll get you on again soon so thank you mike again and i hope you enjoy the rest of your night you too god bless all right god bless you as well and that was brother mike murphy and he's a great guy he's a great guy let's see if i can get this go away there we go brother mike murphy this guy knows bible prophecy for sure and it was a blast talking about it here with him this evening as we went through some of those charts and we dissected them as best as we could in the limited time that we had here on this stream but i'll for sure bring it back on again sometime in the future and we can maybe kind of limit it just to one chart and kind of talk about that for a while but obviously he has studied this topic thoroughly and enjoys this topic as i do and i had a blast talking about it with him here on my channel so yeah i'm getting back here on youtube it's been a while it's been a few years so we'll see how long it takes to kind of build this up again but regardless i just want to give christians another option for christian content that they can find on this youtube channel i'll be uploading church recap event recap videos like the one i recently did kind of highlighting recapping the bahamas trip and then i also am going to be doing some more videos like that in the future i'll be doing more live streams in the future as well so make sure you stay tuned to the ben the baptist youtube channel for more content and i want to thank maria youtube 100 who's holding it down in the chat room maria is a very dedicated fan of the new ifb follower of the new ifb she tunes into practically everything and i really appreciate her support tuning into the live stream tonight but that's gonna do it for this ben naim signing off i'll be back again sometime in the future for another stream but until then god bless you all and uh like i always say i'll talk to you guys again you might hear my kids in the background i'm not sure if you can or not but you know i have children so you're invariably going to hear them in the background at some point because they live with me and they're loud that's something you learn about kids is they're loud good night all i'll talk to you guys again after a while