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Amen. Right, so this is the last one in our Sunday evening series called Sins That Get You Kicked Out Of Church. And we've been going through this now for the last several weeks. And in case you're unsure about this, the idea is to get a good understanding of what these sins are, what they're not, how God views them and why they result in church discipline. So this isn't meant to be something, you know, in case some people have been sitting here. One, this isn't meant to be a sort of sermon where, oh, I'm just going to put you all in fear, so everyone's sitting here quaking. And the idea is to understand that most normal behaviour in a church is none of this. Okay, normal behaviour, people just come in genuine, want to worship the Lord, want to serve the church, want to be part of a church. You shouldn't really have to worry about this sort of stuff. But it's good to have an understanding of what it is, what we're looking out for, what obviously we want to avoid as good church members as well. So that's been the idea of this series. And for me, it's been great to study this out as well, because it's not something you'd necessarily study out too much. When all of us were kind of, those of us who kind of found church, those that were kind of in, well, this church will make do, others that thought, well, it's not really, I don't think I'm going to be able to make do with this church. Maybe it wasn't something you really thought about too much. Most people probably haven't really looked into church discipline that much and what we shouldn't do when we're part of a church, but now we're part of a church, right? So we all need to understand this. And this hopefully will be something that's helped people understand what, why, how for church discipline. Now, believe it or not, in case you're wondering, after recent events at this church, we do want all genuine believers to remain at this church. We want believers at this church, we want people that want to just be a part of this church. And with that, it's important for them to therefore understand God's rules as well. Because what we also don't want is we don't want people here that want to be a part of a church, but don't really understand and end up having to get kicked out, which we're going to talk about in a second is a big deal, okay? It's a massive deal. Getting kicked out of church isn't, ah, well, got kicked out, I'll be back next week. Oh, well, just go along to the next, you know, next Baptist church. That's not how it works, okay? We're going to look at that in a second. Now, most people's church backgrounds here, so those that have been at different churches, whether it's false churches or weak churches, the vast majority of them don't follow God's rules on this, okay? I don't know really any churches around the UK which really stick to God's rules on this. What they do is they either ignore most of it, and there are just people openly living in fornication in church, drunkards, and, oh, the rest of these sins here, or they go the other way where they have just extra things that they'll just add on, i.e. listen to Pastor Anderson, kicked out the church. I mean, you know, I didn't see that bit in the 1 Corinthians 5 list or Romans 16 or where we are in Matthew 18, but apparently that's fair game, yeah? So you kind of got these different ends of the scale, and those ones probably won't kick you out of things, which they do tell you to kick people out for in the Bible. So it's sadly, it doesn't seem very consistent. Okay, now with this, we've looked at, just to remind you, we looked at fornication, covetousness, idolatry, railing, drunkenness, extortion, and then causing divisions and offences, which obviously the longer title would be contrary to the doctrine, okay? Now, you might be thinking, well, what about this or that heinous sin? What about someone does something completely outlandish, or what on earth? So they're allowed in the church, but some of these you might, but you're not allowed in, but if you, you know, they're covetous, right? If you fornicate, half the world fornicates, don't they? Well, half the world should have fornicated, for starters, but this, you know, if it was some serious crime, make no mistake, we would involve the police, okay? Just to make that clear. In this country, you know, vigilante justice isn't a thing, or at least it's not a lawful thing, and we we try to obey, obviously, the laws of the land, unless they contradict the laws of God there, and look, if someone did something, say there was a serious assault, sexual assault or something, we'd be straight to the police, okay? Straight to the police, we're not into covering up things, we're not into, well, we'll just brush it under the carpet, and then hopefully no one will think too much, we'll just kind of kick them out of church. No, we would involve the police for that, okay? So just to make that clear, but this isn't Old Testament Israel, and some of these church discipline sins that I've just mentioned would have resulted in lawful punishment, by the way, okay? They would have resulted in lawful punishment. The idolater, what was to happen to an idolater? Stoned to death. They would have been stoned to death. The railing false accuser was to have the same intended punishment put on him, yeah? The false prophet division causer was to be put to death, okay? So, you know, in some way, well, people are getting off light in a way, okay? Really, by God's standards, but when I say getting off light, look, all we can do is kick them out, things like that, there's no law, is there? There's no law in this country, well, idolatry, okay, quick, get them down to court, you know, and that's not how it works, but when someone's kicked out, like I said, this is a serious punishment, okay? This, if you're saved, that is a serious punishment. Look down at Matthew 18 and verse 18, which reads, this is Jesus speaking, he said, verily I say unto you, whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Now, he's talking to the disciples here, I believe he's just getting them ready for New Testament church life, and he's saying, I'm giving you a big responsibility here, okay? Church leadership is a massive responsibility, isn't it? If you kick someone out, he's saying, I'm vetoing it, okay, because you've made that decision. He's not going to kind of, you know, right, well, find a way of change your mind. No, look, if you've made that decision, you kick them out, then that's bound in heaven as well. If you forgive someone, I'm vetoing that too. You let someone, you restore someone back to church, God's basically going, okay, that's loosed in heaven as well, okay? That punishment is no longer there. The decision is with the church, and therefore the church leadership, and that's a big deal, isn't it? That's a big deal. That's a massive responsibility, isn't it? Okay, for any, look, pastors around, and people like myself, leading satellite churches, and obviously the final say is with our pastor, with things like that. It's a big responsibility, and it's something that we want to make sure we get right. We're not just kicking someone out because we don't like them, because that's the sort of accusation, and I would be a bit, I mean, that would be me taking that responsibility, or our pastor taking that responsibility ultimately, pretty lightly. If he was like, yeah, I didn't really like that person anyway, good on you, find a way to get them out, just get rid of them, okay? That would be taking liberties, really, wouldn't it? Okay, but it's a big responsibility, it's a big deal, and kicking someone out is a big deal. 1 Corinthians 5, 5, you don't have to turn this, says that kicking someone out is to deliver suction one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the Spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus. The chastisement allowed to be done by Satan on believers is because they're believers, okay? That's the whole point. It's allowed to be done because they're believers, that's what that's saying. If they're unsaved devils, okay, and unsaved devils come into churches, as we know, they will destroy themselves, yeah, and the Spirit isn't getting saved in the day of our Lord Jesus. When we kick a believer out, it's a big deal, and they're going to get a whooping. Make no mistake about that, you get kicked out of a church and you're saved, you're going to get a whooping outside of church in one way or another. You're delivering suction one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, not, oh no, I just can't come to church, never mind, I'll just watch Super Sunday Football, you know, do a few other bits of pieces, make use of my time, might be a nice little break, make my way back in about a month or so. That's not how it works. If it's worked like that, I would say, well, something's amiss there, because if you're saved, your flesh should be getting destroyed, you will be at the hands basically of Satan, you lose that protection of the church, that's now bound in heaven, that discipline procedure, you're outside of that, you're going to be getting some sort of serious chastisement, okay. So when that happens, look, like I said, I just want to make this really clear, you might think that some tribulation, some persecution has been tough, but being delivered unto Satan is something else, okay, that's something else, that's clear in Scripture, we can't, no, we can't stone the idolater, and if this is someone that's saved and has got into some idolatry which can happen, and they get kicked out of church, there's going to be serious, serious chastisement going on, and with the rest of these sins on this list, okay, it's not a good thing, oh good, I didn't want to be there anyway, getting kicked out of church isn't a good thing. Okay, with all of that in mind, okay, let's, with all that in mind, let's look at our last church discipline offense here, here in Matthew 18, and before we do that, I'd like to just pray before we continue, so Father, thank you, thank you for, for everyone here who's just here, because they want to serve you, Lord, they're here to, because they want to be a part of a proper church, doing things for you, and, and I pray that you just help them to understand what, what I'm preaching here, that understand that church discipline is a real part of real church life, help them to, to, to want to, you know, just want to be on the right side of that, help me to preach this clearly and accurately, Lord, boldly as well, fill me with your Spirit, please, Lord, help everyone here to have attentive ears, stay wide awake and alert on after a long Sunday, in Jesus' name, pray all of this, Amen. Okay, so Matthew 18, look down at verse 15, Matthew 18 and verse 15, it reads that moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone, if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother, but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established, and if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church, but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Now the title of my sermon today, sins to get you kicked out of church, refusing church judgment, so refusing church judgment, what sort of thing is Jesus talking about here? He said in verse 15, moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone, if he shall hear thee, thou has gained thy brother. Now trespass is an umbrella term for some sort of offense, injury, wrongdoing, annoyance, can include sin as well, and a lot of the time it will be sinful. Jesus said if thy brother shall trespass against thee, so this is clearly some sort of personal grievance isn't it? It's some sort of personal issue that someone has done to you, and I say this because this passage is misused by many so-called Christians and many real Christians, I'm not just saying oh they're all so-called, but many people under the umbrella term of Christianity around the world. You've got for example the false prophet preaches damnable heresy, yeah, preacher calls it out from the pulpit, cue, why didn't you go to him alone like Matthew 18 says? Why didn't you ring up that pastor over whatever side of the world it was, or go and see him and speak to him alone, you're not following Matthew 18. But is that what this is talking about? Because that's not what this is, those type of people we're told to mark and avoid aren't we? Mark them and avoid them, not go and have a little chat to them, they're preaching damnable heresy, they're clearly a false prophet, you don't have to go in Matthew 18 then as some people would say, or for example church members caught in one of the sins we've gone through in this series, why didn't you speak to him and gain thy brother? You might hear the liberal type try and come out with, couldn't you have just gone to them, put an arm around them like I was joking about last week and gained thy brother? Well no, because God said put away from among yourselves that wicked person didn't he? Okay and if it's clear and it's there and there's no argument about it, they're put away aren't they? Now this is about a personal grievance in a local church, that's what this is talking about. The verse 17 says, and if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church, but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. And by the way, just on that, without a church, so much of the bible just doesn't really apply to you, have you noticed that? Without a church, when you're looking at so many of these passages, it just doesn't really apply, that you know, being a Christian, getting saved is a start isn't it, of what should be at some point pretty soon and ideally straight away church life, because without church life you might as well put a line through half of this right? Okay this is talking about church life, let's talk about the local New Testament church here and just a point on that, this isn't a dig at those in places without churches, because we have many, we have people that come and visit, people follow us online and others who are in an area where there is no such thing as a church and look, we appreciate it's not so easy as okay, snap my fingers, got a job, got a way of just moving down, some people have like serious responsibilities that are very hard, um you know parents are caring for all sorts of different things that you name it, well it's not so easy to just suddenly move, but what I would say is if you don't have a church, people should either be working hard for a church there or working hard to get to a church, they're the two options aren't they, it's no good going well I'm up in you know wherever it is, somewhere completely remote, there's no such thing as a church so, oh well at least I watch online, look that's not that's not what God calls you for is it, God calls you to serve in a local church, either find a way of being able to serve in that church or find a way and when I say find a way of study a church, that's by getting together and soul winning and trying to encourage other people to meet together and get soul winning and and get to a point where there's enough people there and believers that maybe someone might want to ordain an elder there or send an elder to you, and without that it's you're kind of missing half the bible aren't you, well anyway this here is a brother or sister from church trespassing against you, so let's use an example here, so here's an example, I'm just going to pick people at random here, so brother Hooner, brother Hooner is near me here, so brother Hooner he does some work for brother brother Andreas, brother Hooner does some work for brother Andreas and brother Andreas says well thank you for that work, you know we agreed this amount of money but I can't afford to pay it right now, you're going to have to wait, sorry you know something's happened, things haven't worked out, I'm not going to pay you that money, now what brother Hooner shouldn't do is go up to brother Lucky and brother James here and go check out what Andreas did to me, yeah can you believe this, he agreed to pay me for this work, I said I'd come and do whatever job it is, whatever sort of employment or something else paid employment it is and he's not going to pay me, that's not how it should work right, what should he do, brother Hooner should go and tell him his fault between him and the alone, okay he should go up and say look brother Andreas you said you were going to pay me this money, you haven't paid it, I'm not happy about this, I can't just let this lie, are you going to make this right, okay that's what he should do, okay that's the idea, that's stage one, okay but brother, what about brother Andreas just won't have it, he just says look tough you know, I'm not paying you, it doesn't matter what you've done, just on this quickly, it just made me think of this, is look we have to be a bit careful with this with church life because and in many areas because there is a tendency isn't there to just assume that because someone does a certain job or because someone is in whatever trade and it's something that you fancy that because they're a church brother sister they should just come and do that for free, yeah people think that or maybe they should just do it for very cheap, yeah you've probably had people, some of you in certain jobs, so for example when I used to have a landscaping company friends and family would just assume that I will just go to their house and basically do the job for like half the price because friends and family right, but would they really do the same, would they just take half a day off work and you know unpaid or something and look maybe if I was really scratchy about for work and they're doing me a favour but a lot of the time it's not like that is it and really the way I see it is if I need some work done, there's someone who does a trade in this church and they I think they're good at that job and I want them to do that that work for me really I should just be willing to pay them what their going rate is because ultimately our hope should be getting someone that's trustworthy that's honest it's going to turn up you know I've seen them how they are in church life they're not like that I probably won't ask them right but if I see that that looks like a pretty run-of-the-mill honest trustworthy reliable person then I shouldn't be then sure how much can I save from this person as well because it shouldn't really work like that let alone go can you do this for free and I used to get this with the coaching so people would just be like yeah yeah I'd like to come around you can just coach me for free it's like I charge x amount per half a go you know you want me to just take time out of my schedule and just coach you it's a bit weird isn't it and people think that and look because we're brothers and sisters in Christ does that mean that oh well that means that they should just give me a load of freebies I don't think so okay I think that therefore okay look if someone really is adamant like I don't want paying I want to help you this it's like I'm not saying we have to pay each other for favours but when it comes to someone's employment their job and everything else I don't think that's right so here for example for example here brother brother Andreas won't have it okay he's saying well look tough I don't want to pay you not having it so now brother Hooner is going to have to involve others if he can't let it lie now if he can let it life he's just like no it doesn't matter I can't you know I'm not gonna I'm gonna forgive him I can forgive him in my heart for this for every reason something's happened whatever it is great move on but brother Hooner can't he's a cyclist he's eating me up he promised to pay me this money for this work for example okay so brother Hooner now at this point instead of going to gossip about it he takes for example brother lucky and brother James and goes to see brother and Jessica to be one of those guys it could be both those guys okay he goes to see him and now he's got witnesses to the conversation right okay so what's the point of this well have a look down at verse 16 says but if he will not hear thee if he will not hear thee then take with thee one or two more that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established now here isn't talking about someone who's hard of hearing it's someone who's refusing to either listen or attend to what he's saying okay so he you know it's he's saying look like come on he's basically not here he's just like not interested no look I haven't got any money or whatever it is I we didn't agree that or well you know I know I said a month but in fact you're just gonna have to wait two months sorry I know you you're tight right now it doesn't matter and he's kind of turning up living the life you know and everything else okay and again there's many different scenarios where this might be the case okay so now the point of the witnesses is that they're where they're obviously to witness the conversation okay for starters so they're there to witness the conversation not obviously they're not there to kind of threaten him or something it's not like right I've got the boys in now right there's no getting out of it now brother Andreas yeah we've got you kind of behind a building cornered yeah okay the point is that they're there to witness the conversation but then it says this and if he shall neglect to hear them okay these are the witnesses aren't they it says and if he shall neglect to hear them and this could be the one person with the witness or if he has two witnesses tell it unto the church but if he neglect to hear the church let him be unto the is and he the man the publican so he's either refusing to have the conversation or he's rejecting their judgment so the point the witnesses as well is that they're they're ultimately going to going to provide some form of judgment obviously if this is a situation that happens and look this is here for a reason this is how we should be following minor grievances like this yeah trespasses against you individual ones that you can't just let lie the point you know choose your witnesses as well carefully to some degree you want just people that are mature that you think are going to be able to judge that situation that's the point as well he says if he shall neglect to hear them so they're going to give a judgment they might come along and go look come brother hooner it wasn't really that clear when he was when he was going to pay you it seems like you know it was going to be at some point in the next few months it's you know it's only been a month since you did the work he said that well he let you know when he's got it else you know so they're there to hopefully be able to judge that situation and be a witness to the conversation to whatever's going on okay okay he neglects to hear them so and brother andreas now at this point he's digging his heels in he's like no not having it not having it not paying you for whatever reason okay i know this is a bit hard to imagine with brother andreas here okay but i you know i couldn't i couldn't find anyone else okay so okay so at this point you bring it to the church okay now you bring it to the church right just to make it clear this isn't now some sort of kangaroo court so this isn't right bring it to the church right everyone forget the sermon for tonight uh we need some people to kind of sit down and look like jurors over here everyone else if you could kind of look like you know some sort of legal experts in the background and everything else anyone here working court right you come over here that's not how it works okay bring it to the church it's basically to the leadership who's representing the church okay that's the point it's all right everyone it's not right we all need to vote now because let's be honest sadly a lot of time in those situations those who are kind of buddyish with brother andreas might kind of be on brother andreas's side and those who are more buddyish with brother hoon will be in here and then there's that temptation to start talking to people behind the scenes ringing people up going oh you know what did you make of this and trying to curry favor and everything else okay that's not how it works you just bring it to the church that's that's the person representing the church or people depending on how the situation works right okay maybe if you've got a deacon as well you might be bringing it to those people who might discuss it between each other in our case i'm going to discuss it with pastor thompson right okay so now at this point it's it's gone to the church okay the the church leadership has made a judgment on that okay they've listened to the witnesses they've listened to both people they've gone brother andreas your bank to rights here come on okay it was clear okay from everything i've heard it's clear that you've you've promised this you've said that you do this now i'm not saying what you need to magic whatever the money is but you need to admit that that you're in the wrong and make things right you need to repent for example in this situation okay so what are you going to do and maybe brother andreas goes away and says okay um okay um maybe i'm in the wrong here okay i've had to think about it understood i've heard some different perspectives okay brother is all right if i start paying you on a weekly thing or something like that for example in this case or he could refuse to make things right here so at this point now it's gone it's been a one-on-one it's gone to witnesses and it's now gone to gone in front of the church he refuses the judgment of the church says no not having it i you know i'm not paying him i'm not having it at that point he gets kicked out okay at that point he gets kicked out of the church now go to first corinthian six where paul is reproving the corinthian church for not doing this okay that's one of many such examples that it could be okay but go to first corinthian six so first corinthian six in verse one first corinthian six one paul is talking to this pretty carnal at this point church the corinthian church they've got a lot of issues here and he says this in verse one dare notice that word dare dare any of you having a matter against another go to law before the unjust and not before the saint so basically instead of going through this process these people are just for example in the same scenario brother who knows like what he didn't pay me right straight down a small claims court okay next thing you know brother andreas has got a summons in in the post saying you you've got to come before court because your brother in christ down the church is summoning you in front of the judge to make a decision on this okay he's saying dare any of you is that really what you do dare any of you having a matter against another dare any of you having a matter against another go to law before the unjust and not before the saints do you not know that the saints shall judge the world and if the world should be judged by you are you unworthy to judge the smallest matter so we're going to be ruling and reigning with jesus christ and millennial reign aren't we okay we're going to have to be making some judgments in that time whatever area whatever place you know whatever kind of you know role you're going to have in that ruling and reigning part you're going to have to judge things he's saying what so you're going to be ruling reigning with christ and you can't even judge this you've got to go to the to the world for this saying no you're not that we shall judge angels how much more things that pertain to this life and and i believe that's that's still in the millennial reign if we're ruling and reigning there it says in verse 4 if then you have judgments of things pertaining to this life set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church i speak to your shame is it so that there is not a wise man among you no not one that should be able to judge between his brethren so bull's saying you you're going to be judging the world are you incapable of sorting out whether or not brother or sister so and so you know has done this whether sister you know i don't know sister uh valentina has kind of plowed into brother john cornell's car in the car park and ripped his wing mirror off and you know can you not judge that can you not just go up to that look at the paint marks and go look it's clear as day sister valentina and i'm you know i've picked on a woman driver here for good reason i'm trying to make this realistic i'm messing up i'm messing with your sister okay so okay so in that situation in that situation she's saying like like what are you doing because what brother john cornell should do is go to sister valentina like this sister valentina says no it wasn't me he's like i can see the paint marks on the side of your car what you're talking about yeah look if she's going no no not having it wasn't me then he should be then going right witnesses then he should be going right she's still not having it comes to the church that's what should happen but here in the corinthian church this sort of situation he's just like straight straight to the police straight to the police going someone's crashed fled the scene of an accident or whatever they say you know whatever the abandoned or something i don't know what the legal term is for and then and then trying to get the the law involved in it okay this is a minor thing isn't it this is a talk about some serious crime some serious assault or something else like that okay so he said here he said i i speak to your shame so it's shameful to do that is it so there's not a wise man among you no not one that should be able to judge between his brethren okay so there should be obviously in this case you should be able to find a couple of people in the church who can just help you judge the situation then after that the church leadership should be able to judge that situation okay he said but brother goeth to law with brother and that before the unbelievers so instead these guys are just taking each other to to some form of you know claims called or something else now therefore there is utterly a fault among you because you go to law one with another why do you not rather take wrong why do you not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded now you do wrong and defraud and that your brethren okay again this isn't talking about serious crime so say oh you should just turn turn a blind eye to everything this is legal type disputes yeah and look here he he's basically saying you would be better to just turn a blind eye than to go to law with the unbelievers okay to go to imagine like going to say can you imagine what a shame that would be on us you know if in time could you imagine for example a steadfast baptist church becoming a pretty infamous church right can you imagine if people were like going before the court judge can you imagine the press getting hold of that all their attackers all their you know the sodomite protesters on the outside or it'd be mockery it'd be all sorts of so-called christians look at the state of it look what a joke they all are okay now like i said that doesn't mean you sweep under the carpet serious crime but but what it does mean is things like that we should just be able to sort out amongst ourselves shouldn't we not have to go to some worldly judge to who's likely some sort of weirdo anyway if you kind of if you go if you took kind of judges as a cross section there there's a lot of weird judges around aren't there a lot of strange people why would you want to go in front of them and not be able to take it to your church yeah okay so i think it's yeah it is saying it'd be better to take that loss okay because ultimately you're defrauding the rest of your church aren't you you're defrauding them you're just kind of turning into a laughing stock then you've got the division and everything else that would be in the church because of it okay it's embarrassing now go back to matthew 18 because matthew 18 isn't only applicable to legal disputes so we're not going okay for the legal dispute and again you might be sitting here oh when is this even going to happen come on well look we're a fairly small church right now uh you know our hope and prayer and we assume we're going to keep growing you know and look we're a growing church yeah we've we've had a little kind of little dip in numbers since kicking out some devils but we're going to keep growing okay and and with that look there's no reason why people can't help each other do things for each other it's not all right you've got to just keep church and every other part of your life separate look that's not realistic is it okay so things like this could come up but it's not just legal disputes it said in verse 15 in matthew 18 moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone if he shall hear thee thou has gained a brother so another example sister i don't know i'm not going to give examples again sister sister jane i don't think we've got a jane in here okay sister jane yeah who just happens to have been here this is in a year's time she's been coming from next week okay sister jane she just keeps saying mean things to sister gertrude who's just kind of definitely don't have a gertrude okay so sister jane's saying really mean things to sister gertrude again has been coming you know in a year's time for the last just about a year okay she's just constantly just just clearly just all these passive aggressive comments trying to hurt her trying to upset her things like that gets to the point where sister jane or sister gertrude i can't remember which one the mean one is okay just ends up just i can't deal with this anymore okay so she ends up look she what she should do she should go to her alone she should say to her look i can't i'm i'm finding it hard to deal with this it just feels like or it's apparent it's obvious when you said that i found that hurtful okay it's better if you can come out with a clear case i found that hurtful i found this initial i found that if she can't just swallow it now look if you could swallow something and then when i say swallow something if you could just forgive them forgive them in your heart great okay that's the best thing to do isn't it if you could just move on and move on great but it could get to the point and there could be certain things where we find it hard to do that right without them repenting yeah okay great if you can but sometimes it's not always easy to do that so what she should do is come to her on her own it then says but if he will not hear the in this case she then take with the one or two more that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established because a lot of the time going on your own should solve it can solve an issue look you're saying look come on this is this is not right you know the way you're talking to me you would hope that look i would hope that everyone here if someone came up to you in the church said look i'm finding the way you said that the way you did this i found it really offensive something i would hope most people would just be lovely enough to just go oh i'm sorry hopefully that's i didn't even intend that i'm sorry you know that was misconstrued maybe you caught me on a bad day or something else i would hope that's how most people would respond so you take with them that person so gertrude takes her one or two more the inner math two or three witnesses every word may be established now hopefully this would now solve it and and hopefully she would then say okay look i wasn't meaning that it's a bit embarrassing now i've got a couple of people here hopefully she would then say okay and find a way to move on find a way to show some form of repentance there and then verse 17 that says and if he shall neglect to hear them tell it unto the church but if he neglect to hear the church let him be unto the is and he the man and the publican now this is at this point where someone could look at this and go hold on brother Ian so could someone get kicked out of the church for being mean could someone get kicked out the church for being me could someone get kicked out of the church for disagreeing about what's you know what was owed for some minor work done or something else like that some sort of trading or whatever it is hopefully outside of the church and etc okay they could be saying aren't we meant to forgive and forget isn't that the idea well yeah we are yeah we are but and in an ideal world you might be able to move on but that's not always easy is it okay that's not always possible turn to luke 17 our goal is unity in the church but that's not just those on the receiving end of the trespasses responsibility right so the person on the receiving end it's not just their responsibility well you should just move on you could just be just on at people all day every day minor things minor snipes minor comments minor passive aggressive things minor little rip-offs minor insults minor just taking a little bit here taking a bit of that there and they should just move on is that is that how it should work i don't think that's necessarily easy to do that luke 17 and from verse three says this it says take heed to yourselves if thy brother trespass against you rebuke him and if notice the if there if he repent forgive him if he repent forgive him notice the if yeah look if someone came to you like i said and said the way you said this to me really upset me enough it was enough it upset them enough to need to come to you and say it and i hope people wouldn't be doing this over something that was so just kind of clearly could have been misconstrued but if something's enough to make you need to come to your brother or sister in christ and you might go well they're just so thin-skinned they're just so like easily upset and offended well i hope that you just want to make things right with that person anyway because do we want people to feel like that i hope not they're your brothers and sisters in christ even if they're even if there was no intent most would just apologize okay i'm sorry you know maybe i've done this right i've done i've said this in a wrong way i would want to find a way i'd hope of avoiding that offense happening again look maybe maybe brother so-and-so in here just kind of is is a bit they're easily offended i'm gonna learn to talk to that person maybe differently than i might do to someone else who's happy to have a bit of banter and happy for me to just about everything in their life and finds it funny yeah and if you don't come to someone explain that to them they might never know that yeah okay so look different people kind of react and interact in different ways don't they yeah maybe the only way you're going to know that is someone going up to you and going like i found that problem hopefully you go okay so i didn't realize yeah you know i can be a little bit close to the bone with some of my jokes or the way i do this or i do that yeah um you know i'm someone that's used to just boring a lot of people i sometimes forget them so i didn't realize i had something of yours i completely forgot or something else like that and most would apologize i hope and and return something like that or or find a way to make things right but in the case where we gave with brother andreas there and brother hooner most i hope would just find a way of repaying it say let's just make things right try and make things right that's pretty normal it said if he repent forgive him and even if you had to deal with multiple issues okay if they repent then we want to forgive them this could even be multiple it says in verse four and if he trespasses against you seven times in a day and seven times a day turn again to thee saying i repent thou shalt forgive him okay this situation matthew 18 is someone who's not repentant hence the need for it to escalate okay that's the point because the alternative is what disharmony in the church where you're unable to forgive them you can't move on and look that's not a good situation having our church is it if you can forgive them great move on now here's the point if someone is that stubborn that stubborn to refuse to accept blame make things right the in the first place then it needs to progress to stage two where the witnesses are involved who give the judgment that yeah you need to repent and make things right and and they still can't deal with that and that's obviously to ensure the truth of the accounts and hopefully forgetting for prevent it get to the serious stage of now we're in front of the church well look that's the problem isn't it that's a it was like that's someone who's going to be a big problem in the church aren't they if it gets to that point by the way you know this is this hopefully the the the two witnesses you know ensuring the truth of the accounts and hopefully they will prevent it get to the serious stage you know of that and and they are insurance for fake repentance aren't they as well i believe because if you've now got two witnesses you're oh yeah yeah i'll make things right yeah i'll stop doing that and now more and more people are just seeing you doing it doing now you've got witnesses to that sort of behavior as well right so you can see how the witness is helping that way as well now to turn to deuteronomy 19 which helps us understand this sort of process with the witnesses deuteronomy 19 and from verse 15 says this deuteronomy 19 15 deuteronomy chapter 19 verse 15 one witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity or for any sin in any sin that he sinned at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses shall the matter be established so the witnesses are to witness that this person won't hear or repent right if a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong okay that does happen unfortunately doesn't it false witnesses do do that then both the men between whom the controversy is shall stand before the law before the priests and judges which shall be in those days now in our days it would be the pastor or here in our church it's it's an evangelist it's a satellite leader now notice how it wasn't before the whole congregation was it okay they were standing up before the priests and the judges which shall be in those days yeah and the judges shall make diligent inquisition because people there are a lot of people that push oh it needs to be in front the whole church that's not how it works the judges shall make diligent inquisition and behold if the witness be a false witness and have testified falsely against his brother then shall ye do unto him as he had thought to have done unto his brother so shall they'll put the evil away from among you and those which remain shall hear and fear and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you and thine eyes shall not pity but life shall go for life eye for eye tooth for tooth hand for hand foot for foot so if it's a lie to get someone kicked out and they did hear they repented well then the troublemaker should get kicked out instead shouldn't they so if this was a lie and they set up some false witnesses and everything else and that became apparent well they would be getting kicked out and just a reminder again okay matthew 18 isn't talking about church discipline type sin that's not what it's talking about that needs to be brought to the leadership and then witnesses would be required if it was denied okay that's not what this is talking about you know oh well i'll have to go oh well you know brother so and so stumbled in here completely drunk off his you know out of his mind i better just go and talk to him alone and see if i can get him to repent that's not what he's talking about it's a trespass against yourself okay that's what it's talking about it's some sort of disagreement dispute or something else like we've just seen some sort of some sort of minor issue it's not talking about church church discipline stuff that needs to come straight to the leadership that's really important or important it comes straight to the leadership okay so matthew 18 obviously isn't talking about some serious crime that will go to the police and like i said if we don't want to avoid look we shouldn't we shouldn't be wanting to air our dirty laundry minor differences in public in public but if it's look if it's filthy laundry it needs to be aired okay if it was something that was really serious then look we do have to get the police involved okay just to make that clear so what is this go back to matthew 18 we're talking about sins that get you kicked out of church it's refusing church judgment what is refusing church judgment this is someone that is trespassed against their fellow church member and has refused to repent they've been personally approached gone to with witnesses then finally brought before the church leadership and they've been judged to be in the wrong okay that's the important bit here they then still refuse to get right with that person okay next point as we've done with every one of these church church kicking out type sins how bad is it then so how bad is it we've looked at how bad some of these sins are why they're so bad why there's such an issue how bad is it it's it's bad enough that someone wouldn't try to make things right with another church member we should look want to make things right we should have respect love etc compassion bearing in mind the damage that strife and division causes we looked at that last week the damage of strife and division what that can cause what it does to a church how it's a tool of the enemy how a house divided shall not stand but to then ignore the witnesses judgment of that situation is pretty bad as well isn't it imagine that you know on one hand you've refused when someone's come to you alone now you've got the witnesses that have agreed you're in the wrong you're still refusing that but then to refuse to acknowledge the church's judgment okay now that shows either a real hard-heartedness sort of stubbornness or a rebelliousness that god does not want in his church god doesn't want that sort of attitude in church for obvious reasons look the church is representing god and yes we're not god the leadership isn't god the leadership is going to get things wrong at times okay that's going to happen but when we come to church we have to have a spirit of submission to god's authority you have to have that and if you don't have that you need to get that quickly or you need to just get out and and and come back when you are able to have that spirit of submission okay it's really important for it to function properly for a church to function verse 18 said verily i sound to you whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever you shall loosen shall be loose in heaven when you go against the god ordained leadership in church you're going against god in heaven okay let's get that really clear here yeah i'm not perfect yeah our past is not perfect yeah we're gonna make errors yeah we're gonna get things wrong yeah sure look i'll hold my hand up now i'm sure i've made many errors in the last couple of years or what you know nearly two years it will be in january but when you go against that leadership and ultimately our pastor's decision on things you're going against god okay god's made it very clear that there's an authority in church and that's the only way it's going to run properly isn't it because it's a real church look it doesn't matter we've got to get our heads out of the local c of e church the repent of your sins baptist church the so-called baptist church the pentecostal church whatever your church background is they're not real churches okay it doesn't really matter how that ran okay it doesn't make no difference you might as well go and see how how the boy scouts runs you might as well go and see how how the community club where they're where they're boozing up every day runs because it's got nothing it's got no comparison really to a real church under attack regularly by the devil in various different ways okay we have to respect the leadership in a church now you might be sitting there going well it's all right for you brother ian no no it's not you might go well it's all right because you leave the church no firstly i submit to our pastor okay i submit to our pastor okay and if i didn't submit to our pastor then he wouldn't want me doing this right but look where he gives me leeway i submit to god and and and we have to get things really right it's a big responsibility turn to hebrews chapter 13 while i read matthew 16 and verse 18 and verse 18 to 19 i'm reading matthew 16 18 to 19 where you turn to hebrews 13 matthew 16 and verse 18 says and i say also unto thee that thou art peter and upon this rock i will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it and i will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven okay it's quite a clear point there isn't it now that sort of responsibility isn't to be taken lightly we we give account to god which is why it's so important we follow the protocols of the bible so for example some people might have looked at previous things that happened here over the last few months going well why didn't you just kick them out why didn't you just boot them out six months ago why didn't you boot you fill in the blank that person out because you kind of you knew what they were up to because we have to do it how the bible says because we that's the only way we can do it because as soon as you go outside of that well now it's it's sort of open season isn't it and now you can't then hold your head up high and go well i'm doing it as the bible said look at the hebrew 13 in verse 17 it says obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves for they watch for your souls as they that must give account that they may do it with joy and not with grief for that is unprofitable for you it's a big responsibility but it's the only way that it works okay the only way that it works is doing things biblically isn't it i hope no one here thinks yeah but you know i kind of like a kind of democratic process i like the idea of everyone together voting on decisions in the church because that's how they do it down at you fill in the blank most old ifb churches sadly they have a membership meeting they have some sort of voting process you can only be a member if you swear to agree with certain false doctrines such as zionism and and you know the pre-trib rapture then you're a member so that's all straight away you're like questioning the judgment of the membership now that that that you know funny judgment membership and now meant to be voting on things that they might not have any idea about and sure yeah i understand that the pastor's going to give his view and they'll usually support but look that's open to all sorts of abuse that's i mean all sorts of issues no the bible says to to obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves for they watch for yourselves they must give account look this is this is talking about church life and church life it's very important like any area of life to have some sort of authority line okay that's the only way it could work and obviously that that person in authority has to take that seriously but this isn't talking about home life okay so in case you're sitting there going wait a second this sounds a bit oh it's brother he ain't going to be rigging me up and telling me what time i need to be cooking dinner for the kids and you know and things like that look like our reach doesn't stretch into the home apart from when it comes to church disqualifying sin and even with that i'm going to be outside your home with the binoculars trying to make sure i can catch you in the act okay you know it's too far to go to most your houses anyway of course we're not going to be doing that but you know what look other than church just disqualifying sin look basically let's put it this way some of you women here you might want to cross dress you might decide no i want to cross dress i don't care what the bible says i don't care what you say brother Ian i'm going to preach it from the pulpit but i have no i can't then go right you're out and start ringing you up and having a go at you look i'm going to preach it i'm going to make it clear it's up to you what you want to do some of you men might decide that you yeah i don't care what you say brother Ian i i like going to the gym in short shorts okay i like bearing my nakedness you know i don't care because i fit in with the other guys down there with their short shorts and their socks pulled up okay i don't care you know you want to do that do it okay i'm i'm you know i'm going to preach it from the pulpit but i'm not going to kick you out the church for it okay it's i'm not going to overreach that unless it's church disqualifying sin but when it comes to being in the house of god you have to obey the authority of the church and in this case when the church makes a judgment or something like that that's a big deal if you still can't obey i mean that says a lot about that personality doesn't it that says a lot about that person whether or not they're going to be a good church member so when it comes to when you come to church you're you're you're submitting you're you're basically saying i'm coming to the church and obviously for a new person they might not know any different but you're saying that i'm i'm coming here so therefore i'm happy to submit to the authority of a church okay i'm happy and that's why i'm coming here and if you're not happy to don't come here it's pretty simple isn't it and look because we have people that came here for 18 months plus that could not submit to the authority of the church just incapable they hated the authority of the church they just found every which way to constantly just disregard rules of the church and some were so like little and small things that it's just you're just sick and tired of preaching or announcing the same things in the announcement where they just clearly refused and that sort of stuff why are you here because what are you really doing and those people like we know they were wicked and they don't really care they're just they're basically going against god's god's authority but why are you here if you can't just submit to the authority of the church because you're basically saying i don't want to do what god says that's what you're saying yeah you're saying yeah it is god but no i'm not interested because it's so clear what whatsoever is bound that should be bound in heaven when it comes to the church when it comes to leadership of the church we lead it if if if for myself a pastor tops of make a rule wall either submit to it or say i don't care what you say because basically i'm going against what god says i don't care and those people you know when it comes to week after week after week after week after week it starts to become you know pretty obvious what these people think about god and everything else don't they yeah now what would happen if you didn't it's just gonna be a mess here an absolute mess and we've been talking about these church discipline things and and this is kind of a nice ending on it because it just goes to show that really look we should just be able to listen to a sermon series like this and just go okay i want to go right yeah that's what god says that's what the bible says i think i've made it quite clear from the bible and all these different types of sins how that works what i believe that is biblically like how it you're crossing that line or how you're not etc if you listen listen to something like that okay i'm still gonna do what i want to do you've got serious issues okay you've got serious problems like why would you do that why would you still come here go somewhere else go to liberal wishy-washy church around the corner with their queer pastor you know and and you know let him just kind of mince around and tell you how loving he is and you know how great you know how great everyone is here and it's all love and and just go down there and and then you won't have to submit there's nothing to submit to yeah but if you can't if if but if you can submit we want you here yeah we want you here if you can just go okay well this is these are rules of church turn to first samuel 15 because the sort of people that can't do that are either god haters okay because that's a classic sign of a god hater you're a god hater if you can't submit the authority of your local church or or your people with issues that aren't compatible with a successful church you're one of the two you're either a god hater or you you're not right for a good proper church and you might as well go down to the false church around the corner instead okay because you won't be able to get on here first sam you're 15 so soul's been sent out to wipe he's been sent basically to wipe out the amalekites yeah he spares the king and the best of the livestock he's refused god's judgment okay samuel turns up and rumbles him he's like what's going on here he can hear like the cattle and stuff like this look at verse 17 and samuel said when there was little in thine own sight so good a soul the king saw here he's just basically rebelled he says was thou not made the head of the tribes of israel the lord anointed the king over israel and we've been given many blessings by god too haven't we everyone here has been given many blessings salvation springs to mind yeah that's a pretty amazing thing isn't it right verse 18 says the lord sent thee on a journey and said go and utterly destroy the sinners the amalekites and fight against them until they be consumed and there are many commands that god's given us aren't there one of those is to obey and submit to church authority yeah that's one of the many commands that god's given us wherefore then did sound not obey the voice of the lord but did fly upon the spoil and did evil in the sight of the lord and soul said unto samuel yea i've obeyed the voice of the lord and have gone the way which the lord sent me and have bought agag the king of amalek and have utterly destroyed the amalekite so it's all saying oh but i did obey some of the commands so yeah well i might not have obeyed like church leadership and everything but at least i'm doing some of the stuff you told me to do yeah he then says but the people took of the spoil sheep and oxen the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed to sacrifice unto the lord thy god in gilgal basically it's everyone else's fault it's everyone else's fault it's brother or sister so and so okay they're the reason i i i did this or did that or couldn't do this it's the witnesses yeah it's the way they got it wrong they got the situation wrong in our matthew 18 example it's the it's the church leadership they just don't like me they're the problem it's everyone else's fault they're the reason i can't submit to authority they're the reason i can't obey rules that's what he's saying it's the people that's why i did it yeah everyone else but myself he's basically saying at least i'm here to sacrifice my time to god yeah at least i'm here to sacrifice you know at least i'm here at least i'm coming to church yeah you know most people don't even come to church at least come to church it doesn't matter that i'm openly disrespectful that i'm clearly in front of other people in the church is openly refusing to follow rules when the back when the backs turn i'm going to do what i want i'm going to you know do what i like i'm going to change things i'm going to you know just do whatever i like in here i'm going to disrespect the authority of the church at least i'm tithing at least i'm soul winning you know it could be worse yeah and samuel said have the lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the lord behold to obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams that's responding not just saying well i heard what he said no that's responding yeah hearing for rebellion is as a sin of witchcraft and the stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry because as reject the word of the lord he had also rejected thee from being king okay hear that yeah those rebellious types are as bad as some devil worshiping witch okay they're as bad as some devil worshiping witch doing all sorts of weird witchcrafty stuff out there the rebellious are as bad as that according to god oh wait a second is it witchcraft wicked yes those rebellion so's rebelling against the lord it's wicked you stubborn types that just can't give in and they're out there aren't they the stubborn types it just cannot give in even when you're wrong they're as bad as idolaters and the vilest sinners okay they're as bad as idolaters p oh well i'm just a bit too stuck i'm just a stubborn type yeah that's not a thing to be proud of yeah i'm just so stubborn you know you get people that say that well i'm a bit you're basically saying i'm as bad as an idolater god doesn't want it god hates that yeah he hates that he hates idolatry he hates witchcraft he hates rebellion he hates stubbornness that's how bad it is to refuse church judgment that's how bad it is so like i said oh but they do they would just mean to someone no the point is is that they've rejected the person coming to them they've rejected the the one or two witnesses coming with them and they've now rejected the judgment of the church but as you're probably getting an idea i'm trying to encourage you to understand that it's a mentality and it's a mentality we want to make sure we don't have because maybe there are still people because we know that the people that we kicked out were these sorts of people what you think that they would have had it gone before the witnesses or gone before they would have gone oh okay okay yeah fair enough i repent now these people were wicked stubborn prideful haughty high-minded just just horrible people weren't they and look i hope there's not people like that here and i'm not saying look everyone who's a bit like that is a devil but these were devils right and i hope that look if you're if you're in this church you're not sitting there still yeah well as long as i can get away with it as long as i don't get seen doing this just just submit to the authority of the church right like i said it won't overreach into your life do what you want outside of the churches i would say do what god wants you to do but look it's not really my business unless it's things which should get you kicked out of church yeah but look when it comes to being in church if you're coming here and you're still submit look you're a problem you're one of these sorts of people so totally seems to get kicked out of church refusing church judgment what is it well it's it's someone that has trespassed against their fellow church members refuse to repent it's in a one-on-one then our then after others have witnessed it and then after the church has judged it and hopefully you and hope looking around this church no wonder we get to that point right how bad is it it's rebelliousness and stubbornness which are as the sins of witchcraft and idolatry okay they're bad things rebelling isn't cool as much as the media tells you it's cool rebelling isn't cool as many hollywood rebels there are that are meant to be sort of pin up icons and everything else rebelling isn't cool it's a wicked sin obviously especially when it comes to rebelling against the law of god but look that's that includes any and that's any authority in your life that god's put into your life okay wait kids when you rebel against your your your parents kids here when you rebel against your parents you are basically no better than than a witch that's what i see there some am i getting that wrong rebellion is a sin of witchcraft it's like witchcraft wives when you rebel against your husbands you're basically like some wicked old witch you might as well put on the hat yeah and and and start you know hobble bubble and and and stirring cauldrons you might as well because it's the same thing it's wicked god hates it and and just because our world says it's okay our world actually encourages it you know you you you don't listen to that man girl you know and all that sort of stuff that which is which is encouraged isn't it and by the way i'm not you know this that's an english impersonation that's what you hear with the english girls even try and sound like some sort of hollywood hall yeah it doesn't matter god says it's rebellion it's like witchcraft and you men who rebel against your bosses at work it's the same thing you might as well put on your pointed hat yourselves and get a black cat and ride on the broom center i might be mocking a little bit here but you might as well go and hang out with the witches down the health food shop with their with their silly dyed hair and trying to tell you about all these weird and wacky you know healing crystals and everything else just think i'm not saying all health food stuff is like that i'm just saying there's a lot of those which look you might as well because that's what the bible says rebelliousness is and what's what's so funny is that there's so many holier than now higher mighty types that think they're so holy yet they're so rebellious they're worse they're worse than the person that hasn't been able to give up smoking they're worse than the person that still is battling with a certain sin no they're openly rebellious they're like witches yet so many of those people are the most holier than now hoity-toity types aren't they unbelievable okay that's how bad it is to refuse church judgment okay why is it a sin that gets you kicked out of church then in case you're still wondering hmm yeah but why does it get you kicked out brother in well because it's openly rebelling against god's ordained authority which like i said is bad enough in other areas of life yeah it's bad enough isn't it would you expect to get away with that in the workplace so would you go into work and just every time your boss's backs turn just do what you like when your boss gives a judgment says i've looked at this i've looked at that i've decided you need to do this you need to change your mind about that you need to turn from what you were doing now you need to turn from from whatever it is that you were doing there and you need to write you need to get in line right would you would you just go yeah well tough not having it no you wouldn't expect to get away with that would you but why do people think they can come to churches and do that why is that why do people think that they're in their workplace they wouldn't do it some in their family life they wouldn't do it sadly that's getting fewer and further between why do people think that they can come into the house of god and openly rebel it's weird isn't it and look imagine if we didn't follow through with this sort of thing so look this is our hope for miss simon you you're learning how you need to deal with personal grievances if you can't just move on okay how you deal with them but imagine if you went through all this process it came to myself i judged the situation and then we just and then that person went tough we just said oh well we tried come on everyone let's have a group prayer for them yeah they've just refused they've said no two fingers up brother in not having it oh oh well yeah don't worry love you know love and forgive everyone let's encourage the other person whose grievance it was to just forgive them could you imagine what a mess this church should be what an absolute mess can you imagine because sadly some of the time you're dealing with devils you're dealing with actual devils that will and they're so clever they will take every little thing they can it's just little sneaky things they can't quite get pulled up on they can't quite get they know how to be clever enough to not have the two witnesses they do all these subtle clever things if we don't follow through with anything this place would be running a mock with them can you imagine how bad it would be in a few years time how bad was it really it was bad right look we had some wicked people here and they went they were pushing and promoting i've preached some of the stuff there's more more to preach there's more to preach about the sort of things that being pushed on our church members the sort of unfair standards they were putting up there which they by the way weren't following themselves the sort of holier than thou behavior they were doing and making women feel small in this church making men feel bad in this church doing all these different types of things let alone the encouragement of open sin all the rest of the stuff they were doing can you imagine if we didn't follow through with church discipline yet most so-called churches don't i think it's crazy isn't it and look like i said if i said never mind it would be a terrible precedent wouldn't it okay that has there's no point having rules if there's no punishment for disobeying the rules is there what's the point in the rules and that look i you know it was hard when it came to like all the rules about not leaving your kids unattended in the building and just the blatant just open disregard just flagrant not even fussed you know i'm gonna be kind of in there just just doing what i want in the kitchen while my baby's walking down you know a staircase with sharp metal trim who cares yeah okay and obviously it was a it was a big insight into the mentality of these people as well that was hard because it's like you know that if you if you if you pull them up and it comes to church discipline you're right right you're out for that people would be like whoa wait a second you kicked them out because they they you know didn't know where their kid was so you understand where the attack will come and probably more people might have left as well than than the morons that did after we kicked them out yeah but look it's a it's a tightrope isn't it and it's a tightrope where there has to be teeth there has to be a punishment at the end of it but these people know what things they can push to basically promote a just a disrespectful just non-submission to authority amongst the whole church and what things they can't because you'll kick them out for it yeah and and look we want to just make sure that we're not those types of people at all not at all and like i said even if you're not a devil like these people and you're just someone who just can't submit or anything else you're just going to cause multiple problems aren't you that sort of thing just look contentious people people that can't submit probably it's 26 21 you don't pretend it says there's coals after burning coals a wood to fire so is a contentious man to kindle strife because these sorts of contentious people they cause strife and and look there's always going to be strife in church life isn't there there's always going to look no i'm not saying every day every minute well what are you talking about brother in here it's just going to be like strife every minute that you're in it no but we're going to have it okay it's going to come when you get a lot of people together different personalities things now and again you're going to get strife yeah but we can't get to a point where it's out of control can we okay and and this is a biblical way of handling strife and that's great that that we're given and you you know when someone comes to you on their own and tries to deal with the situation hopefully everyone here now and hopefully as people join our church we maybe encourage them at some point to listen to a series like this look hopefully they understand that when someone comes to you one-on-one to deal with the strife what the next stage is going to be and if someone then comes to you with a witness or two to deal with something that you wouldn't kind of you wouldn't accept or wouldn't hear them about you're one step away now from going in front of the church leadership and it might have been something you considered petty it might just be like it says here a trespass of any which way but it can result in you getting kicked out of church for good reason for good reason yeah Ephesians 4 3 says that we should be endeavoring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace that's what we want in church and there has to be follow through there has to be some sort of teeth at the end of it there has to be some sort of repercussions for basically not trying to keep unity in the church now like I said sometimes to maintain that peace doing things Jesus instructs in Matthew 18 is necessary and on that that's the end of our series of sins that get you kicked out of church and I've covered everything that I believe is a is a kind of church disqualifying sin as I mentioned some things kind of I felt went went together you know a man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject I think that went along with Romans 16 yeah that's what I believe I believe that you know that if if any would not work neither should he and then and then talking about basically not having fellowship with that sort of person I believe that goes hand in hand with extortion you know what you can add you can separate them if you want it doesn't really matter I think we've gone through it all if there's something that if someone at the end of this says oh actually brother and what about this and please let me know because I believe that that we've covered everything here we've had fornication we've had covetousness we've had idolatry we've had railing we've had drunkenness we've had extortion and we've have we've had causing divisions and offenses and finally here refusing church judgment the primary goal is the protection of the church okay don't forget that because a lot of people look at this and I've heard people say this in fact we have people before they got kicked out saying this sort of thing which was basically well yeah the the goal of church discipline is restoration no no no no the primary goal of church discipline is to protect the church a little leaven leaveneth the whole love that's the primary goal okay don't don't ever get confused about that well you know it's just the most loving thing to do no it is but that's for everyone in the church okay that's the primary goal and this was someone trying to set up a way to try and get their buddies back okay now there's a secondary goal for that person after the punishment okay after the punishment to be genuinely repentant and be restored okay that is a secondary goal don't get me wrong if we kick someone out and they're a Christian they're saved they're a believer look we would love them look we want people to get right and come back okay but but on that this isn't a case of will I send on Monday I'll come back on Sunday oh well yeah I know that drunkenness means that we shouldn't be in church so so you know I got found out I got caught out I've been a I've been a kind of a regular boozer for however long they brumbled me yeah okay I repent I'll see you on Sunday okay that's not how it works okay they're being delivered unto satan for the destruction of the flesh now what's the line with that well I would say there has to be a period of time outside of the church doesn't there now some would say that you know you could look at kind of seven days without the camp which was daily being in the congregation you could you could transfer that to kind of seven services or something like that you could look at kind of a month outside but that's only with genuine repentance remember it's if they repent not if they kind of you know well as long as they kind of say sorry look we want to see some some evidence of genuine rep for someone who actually shows like you know that they actually want they want to get right yeah okay we if that's the case look we want people back yeah if you get kicked out of church I hope no one here ever does if you do look if you're right if you're a Christian you're saved you're not just some sort of infiltrator and I'm you know I'm not trying to suggest anyone is no we want you right we want you back in church yeah but look it's a serious deal though it's not something that that's a quick thing you're being delivered unto satan for the destruction of the flesh you're going to get a whoopie if you're saved you're going to get a whoopie out if you get kicked out of church it's a massive big deal okay it's the most powerful thing we have in this church okay is kicking you out of church and god didn't give us that power as as a church for it to just be a kind of stroll in the park where you just kind of wander around for a bit you know hang out kind of with your old buddies and then come back a couple of weeks later that's not how it works yeah you get kicked out of a church that's a big deal and and other churches should take heed to that and say you're not welcome in our church they're right with god they should be saying you are not welcome in a proper church because of that okay it's a big deal we all need to recognize that and take heed and that's kind of the the end of that series okay so hopefully everyone's understood that hopefully everyone's taking that in the right light as well that the look we just want to be we want to be great church members we want to love each other we want to be we want to just have a successful church we don't want to have to deal with these sorts of things when we do we know how to deal with them we know what's expected of us and hopefully everyone understands that and on that let's pray heavenly father thank you um thank you that you give us these kind of clear instructions on how to deal things in church life how to deal with things such as you know what what can seem to be maybe minor disagreements um or you know minor what we might consider minor at least trespasses against individuals in church life but how that should be dealt with so ideally so it doesn't have to escalate to this but if it does then then we need to understand that that we have to therefore then follow through with the church discipline that you expect of us lord i hope that this series has been edifying for the church i hope that they've taken it um in the spirit that it was intended that they they understand and that you know as a church now with that sort of knowledge and understanding for what many here which haven't been particularly churched over the last several years that we can just go on to be an even stronger church um to be a successful church and a church just you know as you would want us to be and going out and serving you and doing great things for you lord and resisting all the wiles of the devil at the same time we thank you for for for everything you do for us lord thank you for everyone that's here and thank you for your word lord in Jesus name we pray all of this amen