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all right guys so we're covering part two on the doctrine of the post tribulation Pre-Rapture okay I didn't want to cover I could have covered this all last week I just didn't want it to go on forever and I just wanted to establish some really important puzzle pieces when it comes to the rapture now the Lord has given us so much scripture he's given us so much information as we went through last week I'm sure you realize just how how often the Lord brings up the Sun being darkened and the moon going dark and the stars going from heaven and just pointing us and giving us so much information about that subject about that time okay and I've got you guys to fill these out so I was going to tell you to bring them next week but I forgot so I just printed already printed them out for you just so you can continue following today because last week I wasn't really preaching so much about the timing of the rapture I was preaching more about the events surrounding the rapture okay and trying to put that together according to what the Word of God says you know what comes first was as you can see there was the beginning of sorrows right when Jesus Christ speaks of the of the pestilences and of the walls and the rumors of walls and of the famines etc he referred to that time period as the beginning of sorrows but then he said after that then they will deliver you to be killed all right and what we read about there in Matthew 24 was there's a time called the abomination of desolation as you can see down there on your chart beginning of sorrows in the abomination of desolation that's in the midst of the final seven years when the Antichrist reveals himself remember that when he exalts himself above God and he says that he's the God above all gods and then that's when the persecution of believers takes place because prior to that the walls and the famines that was affecting the whole world the whole world was suffering all right but then when the abomination of desolation takes place and we won't have time to go through today but this is also when the Antichrist puts in the mark of the beast and those that want to take the mark can do so if they were to worship the beast and to worship the dragon and it allows them to buy and sell which makes perfect sense as we went through the through the seals we notice that there was going to be famines we notice that there was a collapse of currency remember that and so it makes perfect sense that the Antichrist will bring in a financial solution which would be that mark of the beast okay but believers will not be taking that mark that the believers will be persecuted will be arrested will be cured you know even if they were even if they even if those believers did pass on they're still going to make it to the rapture later on anyway because the Lord Jesus Christ will come down with his saints as we read through first those on his foot if you notice that that it's referenced there in that chapter but it's a time of great tribulation when the Antichrist persecutes the believers okay and still this time is not the time where God pulls out his wrath just yet and then at the end of the great tribulation Jesus Christ says that time nothing 24 that the days will be shortened for the elect's sake remember that if you remember that 24 well the Lord shortens those days of tribulation and that's when the Sun goes dark and the moon turns to blood and the stars fall from heaven and then that's when we'll believe in an imminent rapture at that point I'll say to you yeah the rapture is any moment now okay because that's when you know we see the sign of the Son of Man descend in heaven in the clouds and he sends his angels to gather the elect from from from the earth up to heaven all right now following that events when once the Saints are being caught up in the clouds known as the rapture or known as the resurrection the Lord gives us brand new bodies perfect immortal clean without sin without sinful nature and then the Lord will pour out his wrath on the remaining on the earth those that have taken the mark of the Beast the armies of them of the Beast the Beast himself God will pour out his wrath we don't have time to go through all that today but what I want to do as we were going through this last we've been putting this table together I left I left you with two arrows remember that the first arrow at the beginning of that chart was the pre tribulation rapture those that believe in the pre tribulation rapture say well the rap takes place before the beginning of sorrows okay before the seven years begin and and they teach that that you've been raptured at that point okay but our church we believe that the rapture will take place after the tribulation that's a second arrow pointing up but before God pulls out his wrath okay so what are the similarities we've we've pre-trib and posture pre-wrathful the first similarity is that we both agree that the Lord God will not pour out his wrath on his people okay that's the first thing we both agree that God's wrath will not fall upon his people what we disagree on is what the tribulation is because the pre-trib believers will lump will call the entire 70 period the tribulation meaning that even God's wrath is counted within that and they state they have no distinct they don't distinguish between tribulation and the wrath of God okay whereas we do we see the the tribulation as persecution from the world as persecution from the Antichrist against believers but then when God pulls out his wrath it's it's God doing it against the non-believers in particular against the reprobate wicked ones that have worshiped the dragon and the Antichrist and you know God ends up destroying the world through that that's also called the day of the Lord if you remember it's called the day of the Lord okay so what I want to do now I didn't really cement the time of the rapture last week I did talk about a little bit but I didn't cement it so what we want to do okay you know as Bible believers we believe we have the perfect word of God without error so if there's a contradiction in the Bible if there's a so-called contradiction in the Bible who's wrong is it God that's wrong that did you write the contradiction or is our understanding wrong that we've understood it as a contradiction if we it's us right if there's a contradiction it's us and so what's what's really awesome about the Bible is that when you get into false doctrine you know you believe something false and we've all believed things that are false you know don't get worried if you if you believe something that's not quite right but what's good about the Bible is when you line it up when you measure against other scriptures if what you believe is correct it's going to be perfectly aligned with the Bible and if you believe something that's incorrect it's going to stick out really bad it's going to look it's going to look awful it's going to be inconsistent it's going to be errors and then you'll be no okay what I believe here is wrong and I've got I've got to fix up that area of what I believe so what I want to do is test these two positions of the rapture the pre-tribulation and the post-tribulation pre-wrath in light of other scriptures okay in light of other scriptures and then when we do that we'll easily be able to eliminate one of them and remain sound or another okay you already know which one that is what I believe it is but we'll do that exercise together so I hope you've all got that now because you'll be needing it as we go through different scriptures I've got my computer again just to make my life easier but we read through 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 actually can I borrow a Bible from somebody thanks that 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 so 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 is by far the most popular chapter on the on the rapture if you're a pre-trib believer if you're a post-trib if you're post post-trib pre-wrath we all agree that 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 is about the rapture let's have a look at it again in verses from verses number 13 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 verse 13 but I would not have you to be ignorant brethren concerning them which are asleep that's concerning them that have passed away those that are believers in Christ have passed away that ye sorrow not even as others which have no hope hey so as believers when we have loved ones that are in Christ should we sorrow yes we should sorrow but should we sorrow as others that have no hope no okay of course it's natural to sorrow when I'm gonna believer passes away a loved ones but it's not that our sorrow should be without hope it's because this chapter tells us we're gonna see them again okay and we're gonna see them in the clouds that's what's awesome that look at verse 14 for we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so then which are asleep in Jesus will God bring with him did you see that so when the rapture takes place when the Lord Jesus Christ he says from the clouds he's going to send the Saints the believers that already passed on with him say why is Jesus Christ bringing them with him because it's a time of the resurrection the graves will be open and those souls that are with Christ will be reunited with their resurrected bodies and they're gonna get it first okay so that's what I'm saying if you if you die before the rapture you're still gonna make the rapture okay I've heard I've heard a lot of people say man and I really want to make the rapture I want to die before then it doesn't matter you're gonna make it and you'll be the first one there anyway if you pass on before verse 15 for this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain and so the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them or go before them which are asleep so who gets raptured first those that are asleep those that have died in Christ they're gonna be resurrected first for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout with a voice of the Archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them with who those that have passed on our loved ones that have gone on in Christ we're gonna be with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord wherefore comfort one another with these words what words the words we've just read hey how are we to comfort one another when a believer in Christ dies with these words that we're going to see them again that the Lord Jesus Christ is gonna bring them and then we're gonna meet them in the air alright so if you've lost a loved one you know a relative a friend that's in Christ that's saved and you saw it about that hey rejoice because you're gonna see them again comfort yourself with these words you know great promises that we see from the Lord now those that teach a pre-trib rapture when they read the words wherefore comfort one another with these words you know what they read comfort one another that you're not going for tribulation that's what they teach right they just ignore the context it's talking about and they say well we're not going to go for the tribulation so that's why we come through one another no that's not what it says but I want to read that to you just to establish that we all agree this is about the rapture okay it's not something that I need to prove once again okay every sort of seasoned believer recognizes this is about the rapture but what I do want to bring your attention to in light of what you have here I want you to look at this we're going to continue reading right we're going to go to chapter number five and continue reading now remember when the Bible was written there weren't chapters and verses right I know we get comfortable with chapters and you might like you know if you read one chapter a day for example you might just reach up to four and then tomorrow you reach up to five and you don't really think about what you read about yesterday potentially okay but truly this was written to just follow through to continue all right let's pick it up from chapter number five verse one it says but of the times and the seasons brethren you have no need that are right unto you so if you're reading chapter five by itself you have your first question would be what times and seasons are you talking about or of course the context areas in chapter four the times and the seasons of the resurrection of being caught up in the clouds verse number two now as we read verse number two I want you to look at your chart okay now remember we put this together together like together right everyone is following through we're going through many scriptures black and white scriptures saying what follows what's before then this and that and we put it together nicely okay it's it's not complicated and you've got all the references there if you need to go back to it but we're going to now eliminate one of these rapture right now okay when we look at verse number two let's look at this number two for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night now look at your chart where's the day of the Lord if you if you got this it's in box 5b right the day of the Lord that's the day of God's wrath so hold on we're just finishing talking about the rapture here the times and the seasons of the rapture verse number two for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night so what are we talking about which one winds up are we going to be raptured before the beginning of sorrows which is long before the day of the Lord or we're going to be caught up in the clouds at the day of the Lord you know what the verse number two say the day of the Lord verse number three for when they this is when the non-believer for when they shall say peace and safety then sudden destruction cometh upon them hey those are not going to be raptured what's gonna happen to them God's gonna pour out his wrath sudden destruction will come upon them the non-believer okay as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not escape by ye brethren you brethren you brethren that are believers are not in darkness that that day what day the day of the Lord we just read it should not overtake you as a thief ye are all children of light and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness therefore let us not sleep as do others but let us watch and be sober now I've asked a pre-tribulation pastor once where does the Bible teach that the rapture can happen at any moment you know what verse he gave me there in verse number verse number two for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night and they say see when the thief comes in the night you don't know when it's gonna happen they just come and break into your house you had no idea I'm gonna be there because if you knew you would have prepared for the thief they say all right but hold on remember verse number four but ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should overtake you as a thief so when Christ comes is he coming as a thief to us believers no we're not of the darkness we're of the light okay he's coming as a thief to the night to the non-believers so it's a very unusual thing for a believer to say well it's coming as a thief in the night so well you're numbering yourself with the non-believers then that's just it's crazy why would you do that you do that because you've got a theology you've got a doctrine you're trying to support with scriptures but it doesn't remain consistent with what we read in the Bible okay so we know that the Lord will come on the day of the Lord hey the day that we're raptured is called the day of Christ that's a positive mention the day of Christ the gathering together in the clouds and look at this later on but it's also known as a day of the Lord and the day of the Lord as we saw last week was a day of God's wrath the same day that we're caught up into the clouds is the same day that the Lord will pour out his wrath upon the earth okay so there's this double double meaning there but notice then which rapture position is consistent obviously it's the post tribulation pre-raft rapture because we're raptured there at the beginning of the day of the Lord okay lines up perfectly with first Thessalonians chapter 5 let's go to second Thessalonians second Thessalonians chapter 2 second Thessalonians chapter 2 so what we're doing guys is going through some end-time passages and we're just seeing which position of the rapture is consistent which position lines up in the Bible and which position is inconsistent okay second Thessalonians chapter 2 second Thessalonians chapter 2 hey it's right it's Paul writing to the same church right he's really written about the rapture second Thessalonians he writes about the rapture again in chapter number 2 he says verse number 1 but we beseech you brethren by the what the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto him hey what is the coming of the Lord and the gathering together unto him is that not the rapture of course it is right we're reading second Thessalonians it's an epistle written to the New Testament Church hey this is for us this is for us to own it and pay attention to he says we beseech you pay attention please the same verse number two now I'm gonna read this slowly verse number two that ye be not soon shaken in mind all be troubled neither by spirits nor by word nor by letter as from us let's stop there for a minute I want you to pay attention brethren that you won't be troubled you won't be a shaken in mind right what what in what written regards to what as that the day of Christ is at hand hey what does it mean to be at hand if I said to you you know let's say we're expecting someone else to come tonight so you know such-and-such person is at hand what am I saying they're very close they're they're about to turn up right it's imminent they can come at any moment kind of thing hey who's teaching that who's teaching of the coming of Christ can be at any moment it's the pre-tribulation teachers right and Paul says don't be this don't be shaken or troubled as at the day of Christ is at hand you know it's such an unusual thing that we're warned about this and yet today and look please it's only been the last hundred years I know in your minds if you've gone to church since you've been born I know in your mind you're thinking but everyone believes in the pre-trib rapture how can they be wrong what's only been around for a hundred years and if you're if you're younger than a hundred years you've that's all you heard your whole life okay but prior to that everyone else believed in the post-trib rapture okay you find this in the writings of many people and but anyway it's it's it's the it's um the deception we look at this look at verse number three let no man deceive you by any means hey there's a deception when it comes to the coming of Christ and I'm telling you that deception for us in modern-day Christianity came on years ago all right look at this for that day what day did we just read about the day of Christ what's the day of Christ verse number one was they gathered together unto him right it's the day of the rapture for that day the day of the rapture shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition now the son of perdition means the son of damnation all right now who is this son of perdition who is this man of sin look at verse number four it says who opposeth and exalts of himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God showing himself that he is God if you were here last week verse number four should ring a bell to you when does this take place where is the man of sin revealed when does he exalts himself above God remember it's called the abomination of desolation it was in the midst of the week it was in the middle of the week remember that the book of Daniel's spills that out very clearly both pre-tribulational and post-tribulational believers agree on this thing that when the Antichrist reveals himself exalts himself above God it's in the middle of the week we both agree on that okay so let's put it back together again verse number three let's go there again verse number three let no man deceive you by any means for that day what day the rapture shall not come except they come a falling away first we won't talk about that right now but it's more like the apostasy turning away from the truth of God's Word and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition so let's look at our our rapture graph here which one then if the day of Christ if the rapture cannot come till the man of sin is revealed which one then is consistent and which one is contradicting to the scriptures obviously the pre-trib rapture is inconsistent because the man of sin the abomination of desolation comes after the pre-trib rapture but this passage says that the day of the rapture will not come until the man of sin is revealed so the man of sin that the abomination desolation must come before the rapture so strike two strike two for the pre-trib rapture all right and we see that the post read pre-rap rapture is aligned perfectly with the scriptures yeah I don't need to twist the scriptures we just read them as it is and it's aligned perfectly it's it's it's consistent with the Bible all right strike two let's try another passage let's go to Matthew 24 let's go to Matthew 24 Matthew 24 and we already kind of read this last week but I just want to cover it again because it is a very prominent passage when it comes to the end times but Matthew 24 verse 29 Matthew 24 verse 29 now I will say this about Matthew 24 the pre-tribulational believers do not believe this passage is about the rapture so so if I'm covering this passage they're gonna be like well of course that lines up with your teaching because this is not even about rapture that's how they'll see it and they'll believe that this is the this is a passage for the non-believing Jews okay now let's debunk that very quickly it's a few ways to debunk that but look at verse number three Matthew 24 verse 3 Matthew 24 verse 3 and as he sat upon the Mount of Olives the disciples came unto him privately saying tell us when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world so one way to debunk it very quickly guys is what what are the disciples asking about what it shall be the sign of what thy coming right thy coming now we already read you don't need to turn there we already read first thessalonians chapter 4 but I just want to read to you one more passage here verse 15 for this we say answer you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep so when Paul talks about the coming of the Lord what does the disciples ask for in Matthew 24 what shall be the sign of thy coming okay so we know immediately that the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24 is the same coming that's in first of the nine chapter four okay unless there's multiple comings of the Lord all right but there's there's the there's the rapture here it's it's given the same name and first thessalonians is written to the New Testament Church it's not written to the non-believing Jew okay that's point number one okay that should be an easy one but point number two who's asking this question to Jesus Christ is a non-believing Jews no it says the disciples came unto him privately and what are the disciples it's in fact these men became the apostles they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ this saves they make up the New Testament Church you know these are what these are the leaders like Peter he was a pastor these were these were the leaders of the New Testament Church okay and our doctrine is built upon their writings that we have in Scripture all right so quite often what I hear from certain pre-trib teachers is that Matthew 24 is not for us it's for the unbelieving Jews well hold on who's Jesus speaking to them let's say he's speaking to the Jews well no speaking to his disciples hey and they're the leaders of the New Testament Church so who's he writing to and not only that but we won't go there but those that are asking guys are the apostles are the apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ and notice because it responds to them I'll just take an example here look at verse number 9 Matthew 24 verse 9 then shall they this is the abomination of the desolation then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake so who's Jesus responding to to the disciples who is he saying to you he says to you my disciples you're the ones that are going to be delivered and cured for my name's sake but not believing Jews don't even believe in the name of Jesus Christ okay so this doesn't line up at all with that kind of teaching all right but anyway let me give you another way to debunk this look at verse number sorry verse number 29 verse number 29 immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the Sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the star shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken now if you look at your chart if you take your chart guys you look at it that is the sixth seal right we saw that in the book of Revelation this place in a sixth seal I've caught it the celestial darkening right and and the pre-tribulism say hold on this is when Christ comes and establish himself you know feet on the ground and starts his Millennial Kingdom they'll say this is when it takes place they read Matthew 24 they say this when it takes place but when we compare it to the book of Revelation the book of Revelation says this is the sixth seal all right the sixth seal we haven't even gone through the trumpets we haven't gone through the vials and I think one of the vials is the curse of the locusts that come out of the bottomless pit and the Bible says that they're tormenting men for five months this is before Revelation 19 when the Lord Jesus Christ comes back on a horse riding a horse and establishes his kingdom so this is not even the end of the seven years this is just the end of the earth as we know it because straight after this this is when God pours out his wrath and starts you know shaking things up significantly all right so that's another way to prove it guys is that this is not the end I mean if you compare this let's look at it again in verse 29 sorry verse 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven and then shall the trouble of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and glory what's he coming in he's coming in the clouds when looked at first Thessalonians chapter 4 and Revelation chapter 1 verse 7 which was your memory verse we saw that the Lord is coming in the clouds but what about Revelation 19 they say this is about Revelation 19 in Revelation 19 he's coming on a white horse okay he's coming on a white horse so this lines up with first Thessalonians chapter 4 more than it does with Revelation 19 which is the coming second when the Lord establishes his kingdom on the earth okay and I mean there's more than that he shall send his angels so there's angels with a great sound of a trumpet there's trumpets they shall gather together his elect there's a gathering from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other so they're caught up into the heaven they're caught up into the clouds all right that all lines up with what we read in first Thessalonians chapter 4 unless you're just willingly blind and unless you're just willingly wanting to reject this doctrine all right now what I did want to cover though oh yeah that is what that is what I wanted to cover is that this is not the end of the seven years okay but it is the the still the wrath of God so when we look at our chart we saw how it correlates with the book of Revelation which passage does that refer to if this was the end of the seven years then God's wrath would have already occurred okay but if it's if God's wrath is after the postary pre-rep rapture which it is then this makes perfect sense because once God called pulls up his saints then God pulls out his wrath that lines up perfectly with seal number six of the book of Revelation because following that the Lord then unleashes the seven trumpets and seven vials of his wrath and I know I've not covered that that in that those things leave its own sermon but you can do your own study in your own time when it comes to that okay so Matthew 24 29 lines up perfectly with taking place after the tribulation but before God pulls out his wrath also known as a day of the Lord all right let's go to another passage let's go to Revelation chapter 6 now spoke about Revelation chapter 6 let's get a bit more context here let's go back to Revelation chapter 6 Revelation chapter 6 and we're just going to look at the passage there which talks about the Sun and Moon being darkened in verse number 7 Revelation chapter 6 verse actually verse 12 Revelation chapter 6 verse 12 and I beheld and he opened the sixth seal and lo there was a great earthquake and the Sun became black as sack of affair and the moon became his blood and the stars of heaven fell onto the earth even as the fig tree cast of her untimely figs when she is shaken of a mighty wind and the heaven departed as a scroll so the heavens the sky opens up like a scroll when it is rolled together and every mountain and island will move out of their places and the kings of the earth look at what they're doing the kings of the earth and the great men and the rich men and the chief captains and the mighty men and every bond man and every free man hid themselves in the dens in the rocks of the mountains and sets the mountains and rocks what do they say fall on us and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne look at this and from the wrath of the Lamb look at this verse 17 for the great day of his wrath is come and who shall be able to stand a what comes after the Sun and Moon being darkened the day of the wrath of the Lamb okay the Lord is Christ is now going to pour out his wrath upon these great and mighty men and they hide in in their bunkers or they hide in the mountains trying to flee from the wrath of God to come let's look at verse number seven verse number seven sorry chapter number seven I should say chapter number seven we'll keep reading and after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth that the wind should not blow on the earth nor on the sea nor any tree actually we'll skip a few bits down here let's go to verse number nine because we've got a lot to read here let's just drop down to verse number nine all right so we saw the Sun and Moon being darkened right in Revelation chapter 6 according to Matthew 24 that's when the Lord raptures his believers that's when we're caught up in the clouds and those that remain are going to face the wrath of God okay so if we go to verse number nine what do we see after this I beheld and lo a great multitude which no man could number of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues stood before the throne and before the lamb clothing white robes and palms in their hands and by the way guys just so you know this is us we're reading about us okay you are all numbered in this great multitude that is being seen in heaven verse number 10 and crying the loud voice saying salvation to our God which sitteth on the throne and unto the Lamb and all the angels stood round about the throne and about the elders of the four beasts and fell down before the throne on their faces and worshiped God saying Amen blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be out to our God forever and ever Amen and one of the elders answered saying unto me what are these which are arrayed in white robes and whence came day so an angel says to John as he's writing this in you know trying to write down the Revelation trying to write down what he's saying the angel says who are these people right it says how did you say it from whence sorry what verse was had I lost it verse 13 yeah and whence came they way what's that word whence it means from where right you guys know the word thence from there from and whence is from where as another one hence from here okay the word whence is from where so where did these people come from verse 14 and I said unto him sir thou knowest because I don't know you know why are you asking me and I'm trying to write these things down and it says that there knows that he said it to me these are they which came out of great tribulation look at your chart the Sun of moon went dark these people are in heaven where are they taken from if you look at your chart before the Sun of moon being darkened it's the great tribulation and the Bible is consistent the one's perfect right we don't need to mess around the Bible he tells us itself they came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb therefore are they before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple and he that sitter from the throne shall dwell among them they shall hunger no more neither first anymore neither shall the Sun light on them nor any heat now this is very important verse 17 I want you to remember this for later on verse 17 for the lamb which is in the midst of throne shall feed them and shall lead them unto live in fountains of waters now this is next we pay attention and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes so once this multitude comes out of the great tribulation they praise God in the throne they've come out of great tribulation and then God says look they're not going to hunger anymore they're not going to thirst anymore they're not going to get hot they're not going to get hot right now I'm sweating it's not going to happen but then the Lord's going to wipe away all our tears all the sorrow all the sadness all all this you know sorrow that we've had on this earth God's going to wipe it all away that's important I want to remember that okay that straight after this rapture straight after the according heaven their tears are wiped very very important it's often overlooked okay but I just want you to pick up there guys that after the Sun and Moon were darkened it was a great day of the Lord's wrath we see this multitude in heaven where do they come from the great tribulation being caught up of all nations of all tongues of all people and all kinds of people I look at the church here we're all from all nations well we're from different places you know it's going to be like us times millions you know billions of believers that were living throughout the ages that are caught up before the throne of God and so what we see here in Revelation chapter 6 and then when we align that up with Matthew 24 is the perfect consistency the tribulation the Sun and Moon go dark for those that are on the earth bad news for them they're going to face God's wrath but then we see people caught up in heaven came at a great tribulation and God shall wipe away all their tears okay now there are those that are the holds of the pre-trib rapture they're going to say to you no no this group that we just read about that's not you that's the tribulation Saints I just want you to remember that is this the New Testament believers like us or is this another group called the tribulation for Saints we'll have a look at that at the moment and that's what I wanted you to remember remember that the tea has been wiped away that that's very crucial for later on all right let's look at another passage now let's go to Revelation chapter 12 Revelation chapter 12 verse 1 Revelation chapter 12 verse 1 you know what I might skip this passage because it's gonna take me a while to explain I'll skip that and maybe I can talk to you guys about that some other time but first let's go to first Corinthians let's go to first Corinthians chapter 15 first Corinthians chapter 15 first Corinthians chapter 15 first Corinthians chapter 15 the passage that we're going to read guys is the second most popular passage on the Rapture again just like first Thessalonians chapter 4 everyone agrees it's about the rapture well first Thessalonians 15 everyone agrees it's about the rapture you know you don't need to argue that point with anybody you can just turn people you know if you're having a debate with them or having a discussion you can just turn them here and show them some other interesting passages okay but let's look at verse 51 first Thessalonians 15 verse 51 the Bible says behold I show you a mystery we shall not all sleep now we already know this all right what does it mean to sleep in Jesus to have passed on to die but you're a believer God considers you sleeping like your physical body asleep but we shall all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of the eye at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound hey what's this about the trumpet sound him and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed now if you go and ask again a pre trip believing say where else is the Bible talk about an imminent rapture that actually can happen at any moment they'll take you here verse 52 they won't read verse 51 just ignore verse 51 just read 52 which says in a moment in the twinkling of the eye at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound so what's the twinkling of the eye it's basically it's like the speed of light it's when light reflects off your eye that's the twinkling of the eye okay and they'll say well see how fast the rapture is it can happen at any moment and it's so fast that's why they call it the secret rapture you know we will be here and like in the speed of light and the twinkling of an eye we're gonna be caught up in heaven and the rest of the earth is not gonna know what's going on hey what did the Bible say these men are gonna mourn and wail when they see him and so the Richmond the captain's hiding in the mountains you know asking the rocks to to save them from the day of the rap hey they're gonna see Christ come in the clouds as well it's not a secret rapture he blows the trumpet out of all things that's pretty it's gonna be pretty awesome a trumpet from heaven the shadow of an archangel all right everything else is dark the sun has gone dark the moon has gone dark and you think people aren't gonna see Jesus Christ coming of course they are okay the heavens are gonna be rolled back as a scroll instead of Revelation chapter 6 I'm gonna show what that's gonna look like the heavens are gonna open up right and somehow eternity was gonna pass through that we're gonna see Jesus Christ come and descend hey this is gonna be an amazing scene and if you've seen those left behind movies or other movies like that how do they picture just a bunch of clothes left behind and people just disappear twinkling of an eye they say okay let's let's answer that look at verse 51 again behold I show you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed right in C comma hasn't finished we shall all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye so what happens in the twinkling of an eye the whole rapture event Jesus Christ coming catching the believers the shadow the archangel is that all happening that's a good night no our physical bodies shall be changed in a moment in the twinkling of life hey these bodies these sin natured bodies we've seen with disease and sicknesses and all the lusts of the flesh and the pride of life the lust of the eyes all of that's going to be gone in the twinkling of an eye praise God and we're going to just we've got a new body now again we have these resurrected bodies and the power of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ which are without sin that's going to happen in a moment but not being caught up in the clouds not the Lord coming back and blowing the trumpet all that's gonna I would expect that would take as long as you would consider so put it in your mind think think about how that would sound and look it's probably gonna take you know maybe a minute or so that's not something that happens any moment in twinkling of an eye so that's how you answer that that's a verse that people bring before you but I want to notice let's keep reading verse 53 for this corruptible man sorry for this corruptible this physical body must put on incorruption hey God's gonna give us an incorruptible body and this mortal what does it mean to be more means you can die okay for this mortal must put on immortality that cannot die so when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption and this mortal shall have put on immortality then shall be brought to pass the same that is written death is swallowed up in victory Oh death where is thy sting Oh grave where is thy victory the sting of death is sin and the strength of the sin is the law but thanks be to God which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ now let me say something to you most people and I'm not saying I'm grateful I'm not honestly I don't think I'm a great teacher I don't think I'm a great preacher but the one thing that I do is appreciate the surrounding verses when you read something right so when we look at verse 54 55 56 it says look at look at it again halfway through verse 54 then shall be brought to pass the same so when we get these new bodies then the same will be brought to pass say what is the same what's the same it's a writing from the Old Testament it's actually something that's found in the book of Isaiah so please go to the book of Isaiah if you can get there pretty quickly keep your finger there in 1st Corinthians chapter 15 and go to the book of Isaiah we can't ignore when the Bible says this is written there we should go back and have a look at where it's written so we can get a big picture of what's going on Isaiah chapter 25 Isaiah 25 Isaiah 25 Isaiah 25 verse 8 Isaiah 25 now if this doesn't convince you that Revelation chapter 7 is for the believers for New Testament believers like us I don't know what's gonna convince you because when I found this out and I did not hear your preacher I came to realize this on my own I was like floored I was like man the Bible is truly amazing and truly consistent you know but before we read it let's let's set this up right everyone agrees verse thessalonians 15 is the rapture for the New Testament Church everyone agrees with that what we don't agree with our pre true brethren is Revelation chapter 7 we said that's about us they said no that's not about us okay that's what I said to you remember the wiping of tears okay now first 15 our first Corinthians 15 said as it is written when we get the resurrected bodies it's it's what is written about the the death is swallowed up in victory now look at Isaiah 25 verse 8 Isaiah 25 verse 8 this is where it's written he will swallow up death in victory see where it's written Isaiah 25 verse 8 and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces and the rebuke of his people shall we take away from off all the earth for the Lord has spoken it I mean if that doesn't blow your mind I don't know right revelation lining up with Matthew 24 revelation chapter 6 chapter 7 lining up with Isaiah 25 verse 8 which is then spoken of in first Corinthians chapter 15 all right which everyone says yeah that's about us well then accept it right revelation 7 is us it's when the Lord gives us a resurrected body and wipes away all our tears okay now if that doesn't convince you enough Isaiah chapter 25 now I don't know if you believe this or not I do believe I believe this myself but does anyone know how many books sorry how many chapters don't book of Isaiah you know 66 books exactly there are six certain chapters there are 66 chapters in the book of Isaiah and how many books of the Bible are there in the Bible 66 books of the Bible okay now most people if you've read your Bible a few times you're going to realize some really strange things you're going to notice that you know Isaiah chapter 1 is a lot like Genesis Isaiah chapter 2 is a lot like Exodus you're going to see Isaiah 66 is a lot like Revelation all right and it's lined up you know very consistently with the Bible now we just read from Isaiah chapter 25 so what book of the Bible would that line up with if you got your Bible go to the table of contents go to your table of contents so you can get all the books of the Bible in order I want you to figure out I'm not going to tell you someone can look at look up the 25th book so Isaiah chapter 25 okay Isaiah chapter 25 should be lining up with the 25th book of the Bible the 25th book when you when you find it just put your hand up let me know what you find the 25th book of the Bible yeah it's the book of Lamentations do you guys know what Lamentations means it means weeping it means crying it means sorrow all right and what did what did we just read about the Lord's gonna wipe away that tears from our eyes it's gonna we're not gonna sorrow anymore okay now let's look at this if you go I don't know if you're interested you can do this otherwise just listen in go to Lamentations chapter 1 verse 1 Lamentations chapter 1 verse 1 Lamentations chapter 1 verse 1 Lamentations chapter 1 verse 1 the Bible says how doth the city sit solitary that was full of people how is she become as a widow she that was great among the nations and princess among the provinces how is she become tributary verse 2 she weepeth sore in the night and her tears are on the cheek on her cheeks among all her lovers she have none to comfort her all her friends have dealt treacherously with her they have become her enemies now if we take this symbolically okay and we take this about the nation of Israel okay yes Old Testament but we take it about the Israel of God and you New Testament which is all believers that's that needs it's own sermon what goes that right now we just take that we're talking about people that have dealt with her treacherously if we're talking about the end times here and we talk about believers going through a time of difficulty of trial and tribulation right where where people are treating believers treacherously as it says then yeah I would expect it to be a little weeping during that time a little crying a little sorrow a little crying out to the Lord asking for help now go to Lamentations chapter 3 go to chapter 3 verse 25 Lamentations chapter 3 verse 25 Lamentations chapter 3 verse 25 Lamentations chapter 3 verse 25 it says the Lord is good unto them that wait for him hey what are we instructed to do in Thessalonians in Matthew 24 to wait for the coming of the Lord to watch for his for his coming okay notice this in Lamentations 3 to 5 the Lord is good unto them that wait for him to the soul that seeketh him it is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord hey when it comes to the salvation of the soul do we have to wait for that no you know we put our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ then we're born in the spirit as soon as we do that and we receive salvation of the soul immediately don't we it's not something we have to wait for we're saved but there is a salvation a completion to that salvation that we are waiting for that's the salvation of our physical bodies when the Lord gives us those resurrected bodies and that's when we caught up to the Lord and he wipes away all our tears I mean the Bible is just amazing I don't know how deep this stuff goes but when I found out hold on Lamentations that's the leap in book and then how do we rejoice how do we glory what gives us glory when we wait for the salvation of the Lord it's obviously physical salvation there and we see how this all ties in perfectly with what we saw in Isaiah 25 the wiping away the tears Revelation chapter 7 the believers that were saved in tribulation and had the tears wiped away but then Isaiah 25 pointing back to 1st Corinthians chapter 15 which everyone says it's about us so why don't we check all these other passages you know when the Lord gives us this information I don't need to make it up it's all there it's all there and it's perfectly consistent so 1st Corinthians 15 verse 51 and 254 what we just read everyone says it's about us it's all about the rapture is it consistent with the pre-treat rapture or is it consistent with a post-treat pre-rap well if you remember 1st Corinthians 15 spoke about death being swallowed up in victory which points us to Isaiah 25 which talks about that being the time when the Lord wipes away our tears in the book of Revelation when does the Lord wipe away our tears in Revelation chapter 7 who were the people that are in Revelation chapter 7 those that came out of great tribulation so what does that mean the rapture the resurrection is after the great tribulation I hope that didn't go over your head I hope that made that sort of easy enough to understand but I just want to show you this is what I wanted to cement with you guys yes we put this together last week but I just want to show you that when we look at these two positions and we compare it now with the rest of the scriptures you know some significant passages about the end time that the post-treat pre-rap lines up perfectly and the pre-treat rapture falls apart I mean look say Kevin why did you change from pre-treat to post-treat you know for a long time I wanted to be a pastor for a long time I was thinking about it you know I didn't really do anything about it just something that was in the back of my mind or tell my wife about it you know Christina wasn't really on board for a while I was like no rush you know I wait for it to turn around but then you know obviously you want to make sure when you become a pastor you're well versed in doctrine you know the Bible well enough no you don't need to know nobody nobody knows the whole Bible you know you want to know a good portion of it so you can teach it but the pre-treat rapture was always a doctrine that I could not teach like if you came to me and said like I believe that because that's what everyone believes but if you came and asked me Kevin where is it in the Bible I wouldn't be able to show you and you ask any pre-treat pastor or preacher and say can you show me where it says that the rapture before the tribulation there are no verses okay and if they're honest enough they're going to admit it to you okay I had two pastors once one admitted to it the other one didn't want to admit to it okay it just depends how honest and how truthful they want to be about it okay now that caused me a lot of problems because I believe in the deity of Christ it's a fundamental doctrine but I can I can prove the deity of Christ very easily with a number of passages I believe in the virgin birth of Christ another very fundamental doctrine I can show you that a virgin conceived you know I can show you that in black and white scriptures I don't need to dance around I can just show you the scriptures you can read it you see that's what the Bible says and I believe in the Trinity I believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost again I can show you multiple passages about that in the Bible right about the Trinity I believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh 100% God 100% man I've covered that I already preached that we can go through all those things I believe that salvation is my grace through faith without works again I can just open my Bible and show you you know Ephesians 2 8 and 9 for example and I can just turn to any path any one of these fundamental doctrines that people stand on firmly right and and I can open those passages and show you just I don't have to explain it to you I'm going to show you you know and then when it comes to a so called fundamental doctrine on the coming of Christ yeah everybody can show that the Christ of Christ is coming back but where does it say it's coming before the tribulation and so if I was going to teach that if I would have done that against my conscience I would have done it against like I'd be afraid before the Lord because I don't have scriptures on it hey and all the churches that have come from have always said don't believe the preacher you know always whatever you hear go back to the Word of God go back to the scriptures be like those of sorry Berea I was gonna say Thessalonica the Bereans be like the Bereans and go back to the scriptures and search them daily to see if those things are so but when it comes to the pre-trib rapture no don't do that here's a book read this book here's a video watch this video here's a documentary watch this right and I've done courses Bible college courses not a Bible college but in my church covering these topics and I've got good marks because I know how to copy and just retain information to spew it out all right but that's one thing anybody can do that any robot any computer program computer to spew out no computers like garbage in garbage out machines whatever you put in them will come out okay any preacher can do that okay but what should we be that as believers should we just be computers that just garbage in garbage out no we're believers if it's garbage in well let me test it with the Word of God that's garbage I'm not going to repeat that information I'm gonna go and find out what the Bible says and make sure that we stand true on the Word of God let me say this the pre-trib doctrine the rapture the coming of the Lord is a very emotional doctrine okay it's close to the hearts of a lot of believers you know pre-trib post-trib all alike and you'll find if you haven't already that people get angry people get upset when you don't believe in the pre-trib rapture now you might take it personally you might be like why do they hate me I mean they hate but I would say more than likely it's it's just adoption they've got close to the hearts they're looking forward to Christ so we we want to be with the Lord forever I'm so weak we want to have those resurrected bodies so we don't sin before the Lord again so we we all want that okay and so when you take a position that's contrary to them it's not something that's sort of intellectual for them it's very emotional you touch a few raw nerves and they'll get upset they'll get angry you know and they might fire back but but don't take it personally all right I have can I've shown many people what I've shown you guys and I've convinced many of them and for some of them it's taken years because it is an emotional doctrine something you're trying to hold on to very strongly right and after I showed it to some people it wasn't even it wasn't even my preaching that convinced them it was going back and listening to the pre-trip teachers afterwards and coming back saying yeah they've got no scriptures it's like you know I'm left with nothing else like all the dominoes have fallen down I'm only left with a post-trip pre-rap rapture so my point is this guys please be gentle with other believers that are brethren I don't believe this is something worth dividing over now if there are people saying Christ is not coming back that's a major issue that's a major heresy that's something worth dividing over okay but because that doctrine is only about three and a half years difference it's really not worth being argumentative being difficult about and as I said I think last week as well is if this does happen in our lifetime if this does happen in our lifetime then you're important you're very important to other believers because they're not going to know what's going on they're not going to understand why has the Antichrist revealed himself why this persecution coming to the church and to the believers wasn't Christ meant to come before the tribulation that's what you're gonna have to step in and say well hold on let me show you what the bible says and get their hearts and minds prepared for the coming of the Lord so how do we do this do we run away do we run in fear no that's our last chance to go out with the gospel the gospel of the kingdom and preach it wherever we go you know if we run from city to city it's to preach the gospel if we go from nation to nation you know I've got a dual citizenship now I can go to Chile if it gets really bad here I can go to Chile or if it gets really bad in Chile I can come here but wherever I go it's to go and preach the gospel wherever the gospel is ready to be received that's our goal it's not to hide it's to do the last works to earn those last rewards so that when Christ comes back hopefully says you know they are good and faithful servant that's that's really what we want right okay let's pray