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We're there in Psalm 2 and look at verse number 7. I will declare the decree the Lord have said unto me thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee. And look at verse number 12. Kiss the son lest he be angry and you perish from the way. The title for the sermon this afternoon is the eternal sonship of Jesus Christ. The eternal sonship of Jesus Christ. I want you to notice that we're reading passages of the Old Testament and notice that the Son of God is mentioned in the Old Testament. Okay now I feel like I'm done. I feel again I feel like okay so Christ was assigned even in the Old Testament. Sermon's done. You guys saw some passages. We can we can have lunch now. But the thing is that during this strange doctrines theories I'm going through issues and going through doctrines that I've heard taught in churches. Okay these aren't just doctrines that I've heard out there in the open. I've heard them with people that I know, churches that I'm aware of and what have you. And what shocks me what really shocks me is this rejection that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. There is this teaching no no he's not the eternal Son of God. They'll say that he became the son at his incarnation. They say that he became the son at Bethlehem's manger. Okay and so that position like our position is the eternal sonship. That position is known as the incarnational sonship. I believe it's called incarnational sonship. Okay now what's the big deal about this? You know as I've been sort of teaching you, I hope that you've seen during this strange doctrines series that when it's when you've got a doctrine and you just deviate just just a little bit. You know you you try to make sense of something where the Bible's not not saying it as you're saying but you know you come with man's conclusion that you can just lead you in outright heresy. And what I've covered before when we're going through oneness and the Trinitarian doctrine is that there are damnable heresies there are teachings doctrines that if you believe you're not even saved because there are other gospels there are other spirits there are other Jesus's and what I propose to you this afternoon is that the incarnational sonship of Jesus where Jesus was not the son till he was born in Bethlehem's manger is another Jesus. Again it's another Jesus that I'm personally not aware of okay when it comes to the scriptures. But I read to you a passage in the Old Testament to show you that Jesus is referred to as a son and we are going to come back to Psalm 2 at the end of the sermon. Come with me now to Romans chapter 8. Come with me to Romans chapter 8. Romans chapter 8. Now look I've got the privilege I understand I've got a privilege of growing up in a Christian home of going to church and if you know even though yes praise God it was a Baptist church I was attending praise God that the pastor at the time was using the King James Bible and his doctrines were right but I have to you know be honest and say that the Baptist church that I attended as a child was very weak on doctrine and it was pretty much every service it's the love of God next service God's faithfulness next service the grace of God next service back to the love of God then the faith the faithfulness of God then the grace of God I just feel like okay I get that I get that but I need some meat I need to absorb I need to learn something God's word and so it's not like as a child even though I had the the blessing of being a Christian home it's not like I was receiving great doctrine it's not like I was really building fundamentals to my Christian life and Christian living I got that much later in my life in my 20s when I started to attend my first independent fundamental Baptist church and after I got baptized I wasn't baptized when I was young but I was saved I was saved when I was four years old because it's the simplicity of of the gospel simplicity of Christ but even then even though I've gone some 20 years as a believer without being grounded in doctrine I would read my Bible okay and I'm someone if you get to know me I'm someone that puts a lot of weight on what I call the natural reading of God's word a lot of weight on the natural reading of God's word what do I mean by that is that when I'm a child when I'm eight years old and I'm reading my Bible when I'm 12 years old and I'm reading my Bible when I'm 15 years old am I am I reading my Bible I'm not holding on to biases I'm not trying to prove some doctrine some interpretive method and going to the scriptures and trying to find that as a child I love the innocency of a child because I've lost it as an adult but I love the innocency of a child where they just say oh that's what God's word says and that's what he means and there are things that you can just obviously believe that are clearly laid out in the scriptures on the page but there are other things that just become subconscious to your understanding of the scriptures for example when we went through the trinitarian doctrine versus the oneness and I mentioned the name of Jesus I know automatically you're not wondering when you hear the name of Jesus I know you're not automatically wondering is that doesn't mean the father does it mean the holy spirit like you don't need you don't need to grow up you don't need to go to church where it's that confirms to you that the name of Jesus is the son's name because if you just read the Bible without bias just innocent just a little child reading God's word you read Jesus's name 900 and whatever it was times you automatically conclude just in the it's just um you know subconsciously well when it says Jesus that's speaking about the son of God okay well there are other things in the Bible that you conclude when you just have a natural reading without biases and for example Romans chapter 8 verse number three let's look at it it says for what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh now this is the praise phrase I want you to pay attention to God sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin condemned sin in the flesh so when you just read that naturally God sending his own son do you automatically go oh I wonder when he became the son I reckon at Bethlehem's manger or is your natural reading well the son was sent therefore he was already the son but you don't need that being reinforced and taught like you shouldn't have to right you just read it go well that's what it says okay God sent his son so Jesus was the son even before he was sent just as a natural reading come with me to uh John chapter three come with me to John chapter three John chapter three and while you're turning to John chapter three I'll read to you from Galatians 4 4 but when the fullness of the time was come God sent forth his son so his son was sent then it says made of a woman made under the law so before he was even made of the woman the son was sent again just a natural reading okay that's what it says is the son even before he was in the womb of his mother you're there in John chapter 3 verse number 17 for God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved again now God sent the son right again I think the natural reading just the innocent I'm not trying to prove anything I'm not trying to hold into biases Jesus was a son even before he was sent come with me to first John chapter four first John chapter four I'm not trying to prove anything from these verses just yet okay I'm just trying to show you how many times the bible says that God sent his son okay and again when you when you're just reading these verses you're reading these verses subconsciously what's happening you know oh Jesus is the son of God even before even while he's being sent even before he's born he's a son like subconsciously I believe that's what the average believer is going to conclude okay first John chapter 4 verse number 9 in this was manifested the love of God toward us because that God sent his only begotten son into the world that we might live through him look at verse number 10 herein is love not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins who he sent he sent his son okay drop down to verse number 14 and we have seen and to testify that the father sent the son to be the savior of the world I mean just in those few verses there how many times they'll say that God you might say well God why are you telling us so many times and I believe the reason is because just God wants you to subconsciously absorb the father sent the son Jesus was a son even before he was sent okay now again can I prove that without a shadow of that I'm trying to appeal to you right now is just the natural reading just natural reading without biases I'm sure you would conclude Jesus was a son and then he was sent he was already the son he didn't become the son he wasn't sent and then he became the son later on the son was already there say well how do then these people that believe that Jesus became the son at birth how do they understand these scriptures because they do have an explanation to these scriptures okay and what they'll say is well being the son is a present tense title for Jesus but he can use it to speak of the past let me give you an example I understand where they're coming from let me give you an example if you said to me pastor Kevin tell me how you and your wife met something in the past now present tense she's my wife but tell me how you and your wife met and I'll say something like well in tooth in I think it was 1999 I think it was okay I met my wife but was she my wife when I met her but is anything wrong with me saying I met my wife in 1999 so they'll say that well see you're using the term wife even before she's the wife and so I say see God what what he means by that is he's using the the title son even before Jesus Christ is the son so that's how they'll try to get around that kind of idea but again is that your natural reading all and I'm just giving you a sample of some verses where it says the God sent his son the father sent the son okay what I propose is that is not the natural reading okay that requires you to come from a perspective a position that I I'm trying to fight and debate I'm trying to stand upon a certain doctrine then I need to insert that interpretation into the text come with me to another passage come with me to Luke chapter 20 Luke chapter 20 Luke chapter 20 now what we're going to be looking at here is a parable okay now we don't build our doctrines on parables but parables are illustrations that help us understand doctrine parables are illustrations that help us understand things that just clearly laid out in scriptures okay because illustrations can be good for us and in this illustration we have God the father who establishes a vineyard okay and we'll read about here in Luke 20 because okay what about the people that believe in in incarnational sonship okay they might make that argument present tense title used in the past like the example I gave about the wife okay but let's look at this parable then began he in verse number nine Luke 20 verse 9 then began he to speak to the people this parable a certain man planted a vineyard and I'm telling you that certain man is representative of God the father you'll soon see why and let it forth to husbandmen and went into a fire country for a long time so he's left it for other workers to work in the vineyard verse number 10 and at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard but the husbandmen beat him and sent him away empty so the father sends a servant this is representative of the prophets okay and the attacks they're beaten sometimes prophets were even put to death okay and obviously the husband men here represent the nation of Israel okay the nation of Israel is not bringing forth the fruits that God the father was looking for and then in verse number 11 it says and again he sent another servant and they beat him also and entreated him shamefully and sent him away empty so God sends another prophet again these prophets have been mistreated and then verse number 12 and again he sent a third and they wounded him also and cast him out so now this is another prophet that's been sent okay and so the the nation of Israel they're not rejecting these people that have been sent by God and look at verse number 13 then said the lord of the vineyard what shall I do I will send my beloved son it may be that they will reverence him when they see him so look they're not receiving my servants but if I send my beloved son then you know then they'll respect me then they'll give me the fruit of the vineyard if I send my beloved son now in this illustration do you think the beloved son became the son when he arrived at the vineyard he's already the son isn't he he's the beloved son what I'm trying to demonstrate by this parable very clearly that the son he must have already been the son to been chosen I will send my beloved son because he'll be reverenced okay and just by this parable by this illustration you can just see hey what's the best way to understand all those other passages where the father sent the son well that that Jesus was already the son of God he was always the eternal son of God and and what we learn here is that God never changes like in God's nature in the nature of God he is father son and holy ghost and yet these three are not the same and yet all three are one and that's the doctrine of the trinity okay but Jesus is eternally the son and God the father is eternally the father okay and this is the nature of God this is who God is he doesn't change okay he's not going to become the daughter at some point in time he's not going to become the mother at some other time okay no the nature of God is the same he has never changed from old testament to new testament and so you can see I hope I can show you well I mean by the parable it confirms for me the obvious natural reading that Jesus was the son before he was sent now come with me to Luke chapter 1 please you're in Luke chapter 20 so come with me to Luke chapter 1 verse number 31 Luke chapter 1 and verse number 31 say pastor why would people argue these points like why why would people you know refuse to acknowledge that Jesus was the eternal son of God and you know I can't tell you the reason why like I can't put my brain in the mind of a false prophet I can't put my mind in a I can't make my mind reprobate to the point where I can understand why people want to corrupt God's word but you know there was one in the bible that questioned whether Jesus was the son of God who was that the devil remember when Jesus was taken into the wilderness what did the devil say to Jesus if they'll be the son of God are you really the son of God it's like that's the question that the devil asked Jesus and then you got preachers asking the same question was he really the son of God and what kind of like you're asking questions like the devil now this is why I don't understand it like I always feel like I'm wasting my time even preaching this sermon because it's so easily debunked but people get deceived brethren you know and the thing about deception when you are deceived it's hard to admit because of pride I'm not gonna get to see yes it's easy to be deceived you know and all I can say is that there are people that just hate God they hate his word they hate his nature they hate the son of God and they just want to corrupt your minds to view Jesus Christ in some other light and again I don't fully understand it like I don't understand why people would want to creep into a church to defile a church you know to bring in damnable heresies I can't put my mind in the mind of someone that does that okay but the reason I'm preaching for this is because strangely these doctrines do creep into churches and so we need to be aware of it is it pastor what you're teaching seems so obvious yeah but we have to be aware so when someone starts comes in and tests the water well do you think it really was the son emitted for you oh that's a red flag instead of going hey you know what I mean maybe this person's just asking some genuine questions you know I think if you're asking questions was Jesus really the eternal son no you've got an ulterior motive you're not just genuine you're not just confused because a natural reading will not lead you to think he became the son at Bethlehem's manger but in Luke chapter 1 verse number 31 I understand I always understand there's a difference between the deceiver and the deceived would you acknowledge that there are the difference between the deceiver and the deceived and I can understand how someone can be deceived because this is probably the strongest position these guys have here in Luke chapter 1 verse number 31 let's have a look at it Luke chapter 1 verse number 31 all right so Mary receives this message and behold thou shall conceive in thy womb and bring forth a son and shall call his name Jesus look at verse number 32 he shall be great look at this and shall be called the son of the highest see he shall be called the son they understand that to mean then he wasn't the son okay so when he's born then that's why he'll be called the son of the highest and the lord god shall give unto him the throne of his father David drop down to verse number 34 then said Mary unto the angel how shall this be seen I know not a man and the angel answered and said unto her the holy ghost shall come upon thee and the power of and the power of the higher shall overshadow thee therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the son of god I think that's probably the strongest position they've got so it sounds like okay the future he's going to be called the son of god because potentially he wasn't the son of god beforehand okay but let me just show you the error with that in verse just in verse number 32 beginning there so if where it says and shall be called the son of the highest means that he's not the son of the highest yet well what about just before that he shall be great does that mean Jesus is not great before his birth do you see where that logic kind of starts to lead okay now I understand if someone read that and they're kind of like oh I'm not sure that's what it seems like again I understand people get deceived people get confused and if you get confused I don't think you're some horrible person if you get confused I'm not saying you're some unsaved devil okay again I understand there's a difference between the deceiver and the deceived okay but now come with me to Isaiah chapter nine let's just let's use that logic of theirs that shall be called in this in this sense you know because that's going to be his name the son of god means he wasn't the son of god beforehand come with me to Isaiah chapter nine verse number six Isaiah chapter nine and verse number six and Isaiah nine six of course is the famous verse on the prophecy of the birth of Christ Isaiah nine six let's just follow that logic Isaiah nine six it says for unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder right now it says this and his name shall be okay all right so remember their position is well if he shall be called the son of the highest that means he wasn't before okay let's follow that logic his name shall be called wonderful that means Jesus was not wonderful before counselor that means he wasn't the counselor before the mighty god that means he wasn't the mighty god before can you see where that faulty logic leads now I'm not saying those that believe in the incarnate incarnate what is it incarnation that's probably what it is I'm not saying they say that Jesus was not god beforehand but what I'm trying to show you is the faultness of their logic if that's their position that that means he wasn't the son then by the same logic you can say well then he wasn't god he wasn't the mighty god until he's born in Bethlehem's manger and so I'm just you know I don't know god I don't think I'm this great guy or anything like that but the lord's given me a logical mind I've told you before that I used to work as an auditor okay so I'd have to listen to what people are saying I then read their manuals and their processes and then I'll observe them working and my main job was to find inconsistencies so when people preach I find inconsistencies all the time okay and sometimes inconsistent I mean just human nature because we don't have all knowledge we're not infallible creatures I'm going to be inconsistent from time to time I'm sure you're going to hear me preaching go hold on pastor you've been inconsistent last time with that or whatever okay whatever okay but I just thank god that he's given me this mind that I can sort of listen to something go hold on let's follow that through all across you know across the bible like if that's true then it's got to be true everywhere else it can't just be true sometimes and then if it's true sometimes and who decides when it's true and when it's false now we're just again dependent back on man telling us or help you know without some man we can't understand the scriptures then okay now can we meet to Hebrew chapter one Hebrew chapter one verse number five let me show you another argument they put forward look I'm going to explain to you in a minute what it means that shall be called the son of the highest explain to you what all that means in a moment I do believe that he's speaking about his birth in Bethlehem's manger I think that's very clear okay but before I give you that answer let's just go to a few other passages this is another strong I think potentially strong argument that they might have in Hebrews chapter one verse number five Hebrews chapter one verse number five it says for unto which of the angels said he at any time speaking of the father here okay thou art my son this day have I begotten thee and again I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a son so those that believe in incarnational sonship will say to you well there's a time when the father calls Jesus the son and it's a day that I've begotten thee and as I say see this is the day of his birth and at the day of his birth it says and I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a son you see that you can see that argument coming forth all right and look at verse number six and again when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world he saith and let all the angels of God worship him I want you to notice that the begotten the first begotten mentions are there okay now let's say okay that means Jesus then when he was born he's becomes the son of God before that he was not the son of God now come with me to another passage please because what we just read in Hebrews 1 5 actually comes from 2nd Samuel chapter 7 come with me to 2nd Samuel chapter 7 I hope your minds aren't all melted from this morning's sermon and keep your attention if you can 2nd Samuel chapter 7 this is where the phrase comes from in the old testament okay and the primary application in 2nd Samuel is actually not to Jesus but it's to Solomon David's son okay and then God uses that to of course speak of Jesus Christ what we're going to see here is about Solomon but then it very quickly becomes about Jesus okay it's the kind of the idea of the double prophecy okay 2nd Samuel chapter 7 2nd Samuel chapter 7 2nd Samuel chapter 7 verse number 13 2nd Samuel 7 verse number 13 now just to quickly bring up the speed you may recall that king David wanted to build the temple but God did not permit him to okay but God permitted Solomon to build the temple okay so then we have verse 113 that says he shall build an house that's the temple for my name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever hold on his kingdom forever but we know that Solomon's going to build a temple and we do know that the kingly line is forever but we know Solomon's not forever he's a mortal human being that'll pass away and look at verse 114 I will be his father and he shall be my son that's what we read in hebrews chapter 1 if he look look at this if he commit iniquity so did Jesus commit iniquity of Solomon did Jesus commit iniquity of Solomon obviously right so if he came iniquity I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the stripes of the children of men but my mercy shall not depart away from him as I took it from soul whom I put away before thee but look at verse 16 and thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever before thee thy throne shall be established forever reverend who's sitting on the on the throne of David forever it's Jesus Christ and we know that this is also about Jesus because God uses the same language that same terminology in hebrews chapter one all right now come with me to second chronicles sorry first chronicles come with me to first chronicles chapter 28 first chronicles 28 please first chronicles 28 and verse number six first chronicles 28 and verse number 20 verse number six I'm going to put this all together for you shortly okay first chronicles 28 verse number six and he said unto me Solomon thy son he shall build my house and my courts for I have chosen him to be my son and I will be his father moreover I will establish his kingdom forever if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments as at this day so I'm trying to show you multiple ways that this is about Solomon but then prophetically it's also about Jesus okay so when we see this about becoming a father and he becoming my son what's the primary application Solomon okay because everybody at some point in their life must get saved and the moment you get saved you become a child of God and he becomes your father as it were okay so when we go back then to hebrews chapter one come now with me to acts 13 come with me to acts 13 acts 13 acts 13 because in hebrew chapter one he mentioned thou art my son this day have I begotten thee the question is what day are you talking about lord this day have I begotten thee most people conclude that's speaking about Bethlehem's manger but you need to understand that the word begotten can mean to be born it can mean that but it also means to be brought forth to be brought forth okay if you look up just a dictionary begotten can mean any of those two things now look at acts 13 verse 30 acts 13 verse 30 acts 13 verse 30 but God raised him from the dead let me stop there for a moment let's quick easy easy question is that being born in Bethlehem or is that the resurrection of Christ resurrection of Christ easy one okay brother oliver got that right good on you okay look at verse 31 and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem who are his witnesses unto the people and we declare unto you glad tidings how that the promise which was made unto the fathers what promise was made unto the fathers verse 33 God has fulfilled the same unto us their children in that he raised up Jesus again again let's stop there is that being born in Bethlehem or is that the resurrection of Christ resurrection of Christ good okay and then look at look at this so we're talking about the resurrection can you can you see the context there we're talking about the resurrection of Christ and then it says this as it is also written in the second Psalm we started with the second Psalm what is written in the second Psalm thou art my son this day have I begotten thee which day was Jesus Christ begotten at the resurrection do you see that so again let's apply the logic of these incarnational sonship we have the confirmation when that day is when did you say thou at my son this day have I begotten thee it's at the resurrection okay well then that would mean that Jesus was not the son even after his birth that he became the son of God at his resurrection I'm trying to show you the faulty logic does that make sense the faulty logic that they've got now being begotten means being brought forth Jesus Christ was brought forth out of the dead and he was resurrected okay to life and let's keep going there verse number 34 and as concerning that he raised him up from the dead just in case you're missing the context now no more to return to corruption he said on this wise I give I will give you the sure mercies of David now I'm going to quickly read to you from Revelation 1 5 down turn there it says then from Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness and the first begotten of the dead the first begotten not from Bethlehem's manger of the dead because of his resurrection and the prince of the kings of the earth unto him that loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood so these verses that seem to give them strength for their position when you follow it logically they collapse when you figure out hey when is this said when was this fulfilled at the birth nope at the resurrection but they won't say to you oh he became the son of the resurrection because they know how foolish that is they know how stupid that is okay so what's the answer to what we saw in luke chapter one he shall be called the son in his godhood he's always been the son of god but in his manhood he's also the son of god jesus christ is a hundred percent god 100 man he was always the son of god in his godhood yes a special time came and was manifest in the flesh and even in the flesh because he had no earthly father no earthly biological father even in the flesh he is the son of god so yeah it's correct he shall be called the son of god in the flesh in his manhood but he's always been the son of god think about this a little bit further again just just your subconscious reading of the bible when you read of the trinity the father the son the holy ghost well when you think of jesus who's the son don't you automatically go well yeah he's the son of god the father like i don't have to teach that like as a okay well what about the father when you read father who's he the father of like think about it for a moment if jesus was not the son then he god the father wasn't the father either like i have to think of that like where does that lead and the pastor that i'm thinking about gave this answer well he could still be called the father even if jesus was not the son yet because he's the father of truth i mean i'm not going to debate that yeah i guess he's the father of truth if the devil is the father of lies you know god is the father of truth but show me in the bible where god the father is called the father of truth isn't that what we base our teaching on god's word show me where he's called the father of truth he is the father of truth don't get me wrong i believe he is but show me the scriptures because he's referred to father many many times in the bible and never once is he referred to as the father of truth so at this point you're no longer even building your doctrines on god's word just coming up here i guess he's the father of creation he's the father of the bible i mean you can make up anything at this point in life you know just to just to cement a position that is so faulty if you don't have the son you don't have a father like i did not become a father until i had a child these things happen simultaneous simultaneously okay now this is the this i tell you what the mistake is this is why people believe this stupid teaching because in the nature of man we do become a father at a point in time don't we we're not we're not born fathers you know we're born sons and daughters but at some point in time we become a father and so the mistake they make is they liken god as a human being instead of recognizing that's his nature he doesn't become the father or jesus doesn't become the son at a particular time someone said to me then you believe that christ was somewhere in eternity past that he became the son before no i don't believe he ever became the son he's always been the son that's his nature that's his who he's always been it's like to say that god has always been god i don't believe at some point he became god he's always been god and that same god that has always been has always been father son and holy ghost god doesn't change can you come with me to daniel trip the free please daniel trip the free daniel trip the free so i hope you know if you ever get challenged like look i don't think it's gonna look i say that all the time i don't think it's gonna happen but it happens that's that's what's amazing right i don't think it's gonna happen you know and i don't know i guess i speak out of ignorance but it doesn't take much for someone to come in and to corrupt the minds of god's people and this is why i don't want you to just be like a listener of a pastor you know i'd i'd rather you learn one doctrine a week say this is a doctrine i'm gonna cement i'm gonna open god's word i'm going to understand and believe this one doctrine than to listen to 20 sermons in a week and learn 20 doctrines but you just go on it because you heard it taught you you haven't spent the time grounding yourself in that doctrine because you can know a lot of doctrines but if you've not grounded yourself rooted yourself in those doctrines you will be deceived you'll be tossed to and fro with every window doctrine because at that point you'll believe in things because someone's made a better argument than someone else i'm not a very eloquent speaker i mess up my words all the time my grammar's a mess i mix up names all the time and i'm glad for that but you know what if you're just trusting i'm just trusting my past because it sounds convincing there's going to be another man that sounds more convincing than me and you'll believe that so why you have to ground yourself in the scriptures what does god mean uh this day have i begotten thee oh the birth okay it must be no go back to the scriptures god tells you what he means it's clear as day grant yourself in that so when someone comes along because oh see was he really the son you're like that's not even about the birth of christ about the resurrection but you've seen that yourself in the scriptures you've grounded yourself in the scriptures and that's why sometimes i think man there's no way that this can happen in my church but i don't know your own personal lives like i don't want you to be like yes pastor i believe i agree with you i'd rather be like yes pastor i saw that in the scriptures myself in fact here's further evidence that the position we hold is correct i'm like yeah praise god where did it get just turned to danish chapter three danish three now this is the easy part of the rest of the sermon we're just going to see in the old testament scriptures that jesus christ has always been the son danish chapter three verse 23 and these three men shadrach mishak and abednego fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished and rose up in haste and spake and said unto his counselors did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire they answered and said unto the king true oh king he answered and said lo i see four men loose walking in the midst of the fire and they have no hurt and the form of the fourth is like the son of god Nebuchadnezzar was an unsaved man at this point in life unsaved but it looks it goes wow this is like the son of god like like the son of god he doesn't know god he's unsaved okay but from an unsaved perspective whoa this is the fourth man who's walking in the midst and his immediate reaction son of god look at verse number 28 then Nebuchadnezzar spake and said blessed be the god of shadrach mishak and abednego who have sent his angel and delivered his servants that trusted in him and have changed the king's word and yielded their bodies that they might not serve nor worship any god except their own god like king Nebuchadnezzar had a whoa this is the real god blessed be the god and you know praise god this man eventually gets saved coming into another passage proverbs chapter 30 proverbs chapter 30 and verse number four and we looked at this not long ago when we went through the trinitarian oneness sort of question but just to show you a few passages here proverbs chapter 30 verse number four proverbs chapter 30 verse number four while reads who have ascended up into heaven or descended who have gathered the wind in his fists who have bound the waters in a garment who have established all the ends of the earth what is his name and what is his son's name if thou canst tell did the proverb writer know that god had a son he knew in the old testament days long hundreds of years before christ would ever be born in bethlehem's manger the scripture wrote in you hey what's his son's name who can tell if they can sell tell me he says of course we find out in in the new testament who's what his name is jesus christ but what's the position that those that believe in incarnate in whatever sonship believe about this let's say the same thing that i mentioned before what is his name what is his son's name well he's not really his son just yet but he's using a future title to speak of the past so it's just about a prophetic thing okay i've already answered i already answered in the previous sermon whoever sent it up into heaven or descended but let's take that idea these questions who have gathered the wind in his fists again follow the logic well that's just future thing that's just prophetic of something that's going to take place later in the future who have bound the waters in a garment oh that's god yeah but that's still future that's still a prophetic thing to happen who have established all the ends of the earth ah yeah still future though still prophetic thing to happen what is his name what is the son's name oh it's not a son just yet that's still future like you say that's so idiotic how do you read the bible like that are you saying that god's not in control of the of the elements god's not in control of the weather and that's some prophetic thing about the future that he finally gets control over again i'm applying their logic to the surrounding passages applying their logic to other verses and you see it always just it fails it crumbles why do people argue this why do people i just don't understand i don't understand i can't understand the mind of a reprobate i'll tell you that i can't understand the mind of a false prophet come with me to romans chapter one romans chapter one romans chapter one verse number one romans chapter one verse number one it says paul a servant of jesus christ called to be an apostle separated unto the gospel of god which he have promised a fall by his prophets in the holy scriptures so there is something that's been promised a fall that means in the past right by the holy scripture by the holy scripture the prophets in the holy scriptures the holy scriptures here is a reference to the old testament now the prophets of the old testament okay what did they speak about verse number three concerning his son jesus christ our lord look the writers of the old testament scriptures wrote concerning the son jesus christ was already the son in the old testament days is what i'm trying to tell you okay let's go to another passage can we meet to so many passages i'm gonna have to skip ahead let's go to hebrews one let's go hebrews one he was not longer let's go to hebrews one hebrews one one hebrews one one hebrews one one god who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets hath in these last days that's speaking about the new testament days spoken unto us by his son they said well the son there that's because he was born hold on spoken to us by his son whom he have appointed heir of all things by whom also he made the worlds so by whom god the father made the worlds by someone by whom by the son who created the world who created all things the son he was already the son before creation even i mean again do i need to prove that though do i need to exaggerate and lift my voice again a natural reader will go yeah of course he's the son the son created all things he must have been the son even before creation he must have been the son in eternity that's what the natural reader will conclude let's go to back to some chapter two please what we started with psalm chapter two psalm chapter two you say well what do these people do about psalm chapter two because it mentions the sun again they'll say well it's all prophetic it's all future and look there are elements in psalm two that are future i'll give them that okay but it's not all future i'll show you in psalm chapter two verse number one it's not a long psalmist really quickly why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing the kings of the earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together against the lord and against his anointed saying anointed is another way of saying christ okay christ means anointed messiah anointed the anointed one but we see here this is not about future this is about kings of the earth at the time of the writing of the psalm they set themselves they take counsel together against the lord they're against the laws of god they're against his son okay saying verse number three let us break their bands asunder and cast away their cords from us so you got kings of the earth that don't want to be withheld or or um be limited by the laws of god like this just break it away and that's why our governments constantly are passing laws that are just contrary to god's word this is real today and it was real in the time of the psalmist verse number four hear that sin if the heavens shall laugh god laughs at them the lord shall have them in derision then shall he speak unto them in his wrath and vex them in his sore displeasure this is what he says yet have i set my king upon my holy hill of zion i would declare the decree the lord have said unto me look at this thou art my son this day have i begotten thee now you know what day has he begotten where does it come from psalm two speaking of the resurrection verse number eight so yeah there is a prophetic time of the future taking place here of course the resurrection of christ was still future when the psalm was written verse number eight ask of me and i shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession thou shall break them with a rod of iron thou shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel that's now talking about his millennial reign okay his second coming his millennial reign on this earth say well that's all prophetic that's all future okay i give him that but look at verse number 10 be wise now be wise now okay so this was about the time of the psalm was written be wise now therefore oh ye kings like don't wait for the millennium okay be wise now okay oh ye kings be instructed you judge of the earth serve the lord with fear and rejoice with trembling kiss the sun now inks in the time of the old testament scriptures be wise now kiss the sun lest he be angry and you perish from the way when his wrath is kindled but a little blessed are all they that put their trust in him you see in that time the kings were being instructed look honor the sun kiss the sun is this time submission respect honor praise love all right now do it you say well maybe this is prophetic of the future millennial of christ it can't be because those that are kings and priests in the millennium are his believers those that are already in christ jesus we don't need to be made right with christ we're already made quite right with christ these are kings of the earth now at the time the sun was written in the old testament days and what are they commanded to do kiss the sun well imagine the other position incarnation well who's the son there is no son he doesn't become the son till mary gives birth so who am i supposed to kiss stupidity i'm just trying to show you in many passages old testament new testament jesus christ has always been the son of god he doesn't become the son yes in the flesh at Bethlehem's manger but he's always been in his godhood the son of god okay and if it's always been the son god the father has always been the father okay and we start moving away i'm trying to show you when you start following their logic you start seeing the scriptures how they see it i hope i've shown you when you follow their logic how stupid it becomes how it starts to fall apart it doesn't make sense okay that there are inconsistencies but you can see that christ has always been the son of god meaning that he's always been in submission to his father the title for the sermon was the eternal sonship of jesus christ let's pray