(Disclaimer: This transcript is auto-generated and may contain mistakes.)

Okay, we're in 1st John chapter number 5, look down at your Bibles at verse number 7. It says here, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. For this is the witness of God, which he had testified of his Son. And what I want to preach on this morning is the subject of two or three witnesses. Two or three witnesses, or another way I can title it is the value of two witnesses. The value of two witnesses. Now here in 1st John chapter 5, it's an important chapter obviously that really highlights the concept of the Trinity. And we see this concept, or this word being used quite a bit, of being a witness. And really the main thrust of chapter 5 is talking about how God has given a witness excuse me, has given a witness of his Son. And what's the witness that he has given of his Son is that his Son is going to give it to us eternal life. He's testifying, he's bearing record that we can have everlasting life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What does it mean to witness? Well to witness simply means to bear record or to testify of something an individual basically deems to be factual, okay? And here we see that the Bible is telling us in verse number 9 that the witness of God is greater, okay? Now why is it greater? Well because of the fact that God is divine, he's perfect, he's infallible, he's without error. So any testimony, any statement, any witness that he gives, any record that he bears is always going to be true. You know the Bible says that in hope of eternal life which God that cannot lie promised before the world began. And so whatever God says obviously is always going to be factual and in fact it even goes as far as to tell us that let God be true and every man a liar, okay? So you know when people come to you and say you know well I don't really believe that that's what the Bible says then we can just say well that person's a liar. Why because anything that the Word of God states is true, there is no error in God's Word, there is no error in God's testimony, his testification, his witness, his report that he's giving, okay? Now man's witness on the other hand you know has the potential to be fallible, right? It has the potential to be erroneous or even misinterpreted, it has the potential to have error, you know sometimes man's witness is not always correct, okay? Now just because man's witness is fallible it doesn't mean we don't receive it, okay? Because the reality is this is that God wants us to receive the witness of men and in fact it tells us if we receive the witness of men the witness of God is greater, what he's simply stating there is this, if we are willing to receive the witness of man, their testimony, their report, their record that they're giving, how much more should we receive the witness of God which is obviously greater? God wants us to execute the right judgment, exercise justice based upon solid evidence though, you understand? Now it's for this reason that God has set up certain principles of justice that basically would help mitigate error in judgment, okay? You know when someone makes a claim about another individual, God has set forth certain guiding principles of justice that will help minimize any type of human error so that someone's not being falsely accused, someone's not bearing false witness, etc. He set forth these principles in the Bible in order for us to make the righteous judgment. Now go to Deuteronomy chapter 19 if you would, Deuteronomy chapter 19. Now look folks, that doesn't mean that people aren't going to make a bad call, okay? Or that doesn't mean that every person who bears witness of another individual and they don't have a witness, it doesn't mean that they're wrong. It just means that God has set forth certain principles in order to minimize the amount of times there is error, the amount of times someone can be falsely accused in order to execute right justice. Let me read to you from 2 Corinthians 13 verse 1, it says, this is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established, the Bible says. So the Bible's telling us here that in order to establish a statement, an accusation, a record or whatever, a witness, there needs to be more than one witness. The Bible says in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Now it doesn't say that every accusation shall be confirmed. It doesn't say out of the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every accusation be confirmed, right? It says every word shall be established. What does that mean? Well what it basically stating is that every word will be able to be investigated, every word shall be corroborated, everything, it'll be grounds for some sort of inquiry or investigation to see if these things are so. In other words, the only way we can take something really serious is if there's two or three witnesses involved. Does that make sense? You're in Deuteronomy 19, I'm going to read to you from 1 Timothy 1 verse 8, it says, but we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully. Knowing this that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons and if there be any other thing that's contrary to sound doctrine. So the Bible says that the law of God is meant to expose perjured people. What does that mean? People who are lying, bearing false witness and that's what we're going to look at in Deuteronomy chapter 19. We're going to look at the value of two witnesses when false accusations are made. Look at Deuteronomy 19 verse 15, it says here, one witness shall not rise up against any man for any iniquity or for any sin and any sin that he sinneth at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses shall the matter be established. And again, what this is referring to is the fact that when a statement is made, if there's more than one individual involved who heard the statement being made, at that point there is validity, there is grounds for proper accusation or proper investigation of that which is being accused of, you understand? Now this is an important principle folks, you know I'm not preaching on the reprobate doctrine today, we're not doing poster pre-wrath today, I know this is not the most exciting sermon, but look this is important for practical Christian living and especially in church. And so I'm going to explain some things to you that we as a church need to make sure that we are examining these things, we're understanding these things because a lot of problems can arise in a church if we don't understand this principle of two or three witnesses. A lot of contention, a lot of strife, a lot of division can be caused if we don't understand this concept here. So it's referring to the fact that every statement now if there's two or three witnesses can be examined. If an individual sees or hears of another individual committing a crime, a sin, you know whatever it may be, some wrongdoing, but they come before a judge or the authority and say, hey so and so said this, so and so did this, but there's no one else to corroborate that, there's no one else to see, hey yeah I heard that as well, I saw that as well, then God says you can't take it serious. Because that safeguards the individual from potential false accusations, from a railing accusation okay. Now look folks, I'm sure there was times in the Bible where someone did commit that crime, they did commit that sin, and there was only one witness, and the person went scot-free. That probably did happen, why? Because man is fallible. So we don't have perfect judgment, we don't have perfect wisdom, so there's times when authorities, pastors, you know people who are executing the laws of God, you know they don't make the right call. But that doesn't mean that this system is flawed okay, just we're flawed, we make mistakes. Now look at verse 16, if a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong, then both the men between whom the controversy is shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges which shall be in those days, and the judges shall make diligent inquisition. So what are the steps here? The steps are this, if a person is being accused of a particular crime, sin, whatever it is, and there is two witnesses for example, that heard this statement being made or saw that crime being committed, at that point the judges who were not present now have grounds to investigate the situation. Not to claim that he's guilty, not to say well they're worthy of death, no to investigate, to make diligent inquiry. Now here's the thing folks, you've got to understand something, obviously we're not omnipresent, authorities, pastors or whatever, they're not omnipresent, so they have to make judgment calls based upon the evidence that has been provided, you understand that? And the reason I say that is because sometimes I have to make a judgment call based upon the evidence presented and people don't like that. They're just like well you weren't there, that's a false accusation, no it's not a false accusation because God has set forth authorities and leaders and people of judgment to make a judgment call based upon the evidence presented. So the judges shall make diligent inquisition, what does that mean? That they're going to investigate the situation, they're going to look at all the facets, all the facts that are being given, all the statements that are being made and it says, and behold if the witness be a false witness and has testified falsely against his brother, then shall he do unto him as he had thought to have done unto his brother, so shalt thou put away evil from among you. So what is the punishment for the individual who bears false witness? Well if they're bearing false witness towards an individual who they claim to have committed murder for example, well the penalty for murder is the death penalty. So according to the Bible, if this person is innocent and they find that the accuser is bearing false witness, that means that person would be put to death. That's how grievous bearing false witness is. It's so grievous that God says, well I will impose the penalty that the accused would have received if they were guilty upon you for accusing that individual of that crime, sin, whatever it may be. Grevious. And it shows you that God does not take bearing false witness lightly, you understand? He says in verse 20, and those which remain shall hear and fear and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you and thine eyes shall not pity but life shall go for life eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, the Bible says. I mean it's pretty extensive. Whatever punishment that that person deserved if they were guilty would be imposed upon you for falsely accusing that individual. Now I'm sure there were times during this era, and even just like today, where the individual was guilty and there was not enough evidence to basically pinpoint this person of doing the act or saying the statement or whatever it may be, and the person went scot free and no one was punished because there just wasn't enough evidence. I'm sure that happens, I'm sure it's going to happen in our church, it's going to happen in different areas, it happens all the time, but these are just the guiding principles that God has set forth in order to minimize that as much as possible. Now I'll tell you an area where I'm sure this happens a lot of bearing false witness, it's with police. Police bear false witness all the time. They plant evidence, and even if the person is guilty and they're guilty of some sort of crime, in order to solidify that guilt, in order to confirm that that person deserves to be put away or be put in prison for X amount of years, they'll put some cocaine or they'll put some gun there or whatever, I mean there's some crooked police out there. There's a lot of crooked police out there. I personally know or knew a crooked police officer, and I remember him and I, we didn't really get along very much, and we weren't necessarily friends, and I remember I was inquiring about purchasing a gun, and they're like, oh you should talk to so and so, which was a police officer. I'm like, I don't know man, that guy doesn't really like me, can I even trust that guy? And then he actually approached me about it. He said, hey I heard you're interested in purchasing a gun, like you want a gun. I'm like, yeah I was kind of interested. He's like, well you know what, come to my police car, and there's a gun inside the trunk. He goes, you can hold it, you can check it out, you know, I'm like, well where'd you get it from? He's like, oh I just, you know, we come across things like this all the time. And I'm like, no thank you. I'm like, I'm good, you know, because this guy probably wants my fingerprints to be on that gun, so he can falsely accuse me of something because the guy probably just doesn't like me or something. Or just to use it as a scapegoat or something, I don't know, I mean that's crooked. But this happens a lot folks. And so it's important that we understand, and look, it obviously happens in the legal system but even in church it can happen. Where people can bear false witness of other individuals in the church, or they're bearing witness of something that took place that they believe to be true, but it cannot be validated, it cannot be confirmed because there was not another witness to confirm whether that happened or not. You say, well isn't that like an injustice though? You know, what if it was true? What if something did happen but there wasn't another witness? Then at that point we leave it in the hands of God to expose that individual for the things that they've actually done, you understand? At that point you leave it in God's hands because obviously, you know, if there's no evidence we can't do anything about it based upon God's word, we just leave it in God's hands and say, well Lord, thou knowest, thou knowest, and if this person did this deed then may someone else come forth or may more be exposed about it. Until then, that person is innocent until proven guilty, okay? So the punishment that was to be inflicted upon the accused if he was convicted would then be imposed upon the accuser for bearing false witness. Go to Proverbs chapter 16, Proverbs chapter 16, of course Exodus 20 verse 16 says thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor. We often use that to describe lying, which obviously that is lying but it's actually more grievous than just lying because it's lying about your neighbor, about a particular crime, sin that they've committed, desiring punishment upon that individual. That's what's basically attached to bearing false witness to someone. It's hoping that that person will be punished for something they didn't do, okay? Exodus 23 verse 1 says thou shall not raise a false rapport, put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness. Proverbs chapter 6, what did I have you turn to, Proverbs 16? Sorry, go to 6, not 16. Proverbs chapter 6 verse 16 says these six things that the Lord hate, oh there goes that dirty word again, you know there's some things that God hates, folks. Yea seven are an abomination unto him, a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, and heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift and running to mischief, look what it says in verse 19, a false witness that speaketh lies and he that soweth discord among brethren. Now notice that lying is actually mentioned twice, it talks about the lying tongue and then it says in verse 19, a false witness that speaketh lies. So it's basically telling us that God hates it when just people lie just in general but then he hates it even more when lying has the motive behind it to punish someone else for something they didn't do, because it's talking about a false witness testifying that someone is guilty of a crime or a sin that they did not commit and it has attached there someone who is trying to sow discord among the brethren. That's the motive behind it according to this verse. Now why would people bear false witness, go to Proverbs 25, Proverbs 25. Why would people bear false witness towards other individuals? Well sometimes it's because they're just misguided, okay? Or sometimes they just hear something wrong. I mean wouldn't you agree there's times in our life when we heard someone say something and maybe we just misheard them, right? We just thought they said something different and we, but we're sure in our mind like no that's what I heard, right? I heard this, I heard X, Y, and Z but then it could be that you just misheard and that's a possibility, especially if you're hard of hearing or something. I mean that happens too, right? Who's hard of hearing in here? Adam raise your hand, Adam raise your hand. Some people are just hard of hearing, they just, and so if he hears a statement that I make and he says no he said this, he's not lying, that's just what he thought he heard. So that's not an individual who's bearing false witness about something that I said because they have some, because he has some sort of nefarious agenda behind it or motive, it's just something that he misheard and he believed to be true, okay? So sometimes it's misguided, sometimes people are hard of hearing, or sometimes in sincerity of heart they just make a mistake. They just don't remember the scenario or the situation as well and so they make a judgment based upon what they do remember, you understand? But other times, literally, people bear false witness because they're just wicked people. They're just malicious, wicked people, you understand? And these people actually exist, okay? Let me read to you, you're in Proverbs 25, I'm gonna read to you from Proverbs 19 verse 5, a false witness shall not be unpunished. Now I love this verse because so many people bear false witness about our church, about yours truly and about our church. One of the most famous false witnesses that I heard this year was that I bombed my own church. I don't even know how to make a bomb. And they're like, oh he bombed his own church, that's bearing false witness. So if we're under Old Testament law, you know what I mean? That person who made that claim, I was gonna say they'd get blown up but that's not true, they would get thrown into jail or whatever punishment that they deserve for that. Because you have this claim of me that they say, oh he deserved to get bombed, that's what he merited, that's what he deserved, good, and we cursed him and he got what he deserved and then that same group will turn around and say, oh no, he bombed his own church because he wanted to collect on the insurance or whatever. So which one is it? Either you want to take credit for bombing our church or you want to say that I bombed my church. And the FBI put out a $25,000 reward for any information on the individual who bombed the church, well if I did it, go collect that money then. Go turn me into the FBI, bring your so-called evidence, I have all kinds of evidence. You mean like Instagram comments of other fags saying that I bombed myself too, is that your evidence? If that's the only evidence you have, then you know what, go take it to the FBI if it's so valid and turn me in and collect that money. But it's a false witness, it's a false witness. How about this, when the LA Times wrote an article about yours truly, okay, how long shall hate persist in El Mani or whatever? This idiot journalist, and he is an idiot, he's like the reprobate pastor. He called me the reprobate pastor, which is a grievous false accusation because the people obviously that he's defending are reprobates, okay, a bunch of deviants and wicked children of the devil, but he wants to make this claim that I'm the reprobate, that I'm the one who brought this upon myself and all these things. That's what you call a false witness, and when I hear those things, I'm like, man, it grieves me. No one likes to be lied about. Nobody likes to be lied about. And sometimes you think like, man, why are these people still allowed to make these claims? Don't worry about it because Proverbs 19 says a false witness shall not be unpunished. And even if the so-called justice system never gets their man, they never get the person who bombed the church or whatever, you know, God will get them. They will not be unpunished. And he that speaketh lies shall not escape, you know, because someone commented on Instagram and said, oh, how are you going to find me, I already flew back to Washington. Right, you guys remember that? He's like, it's too late, you can't catch me, I already flew back to Washington. He that speaketh lies shall not escape. You can move to Timbuktu. You can move to Europe. You can move wherever you want. Ye shall not escape because God keeps record of those things and he will vindicate the righteous and punish the wicked for their false witness. Verse nine tells us a false witness shall not be unpunished and he that speaketh lies shall perish. Proverbs 25 verse 18 says this, a man that beareth false witness against his neighbor is a maul and a sword and a sharp arrow. So why do people bear false witness? Well, sometimes it's just misguided. Sometimes they misunderstood. Sometimes they didn't hear something correctly or they perceive reality to be something different based upon their experience. It's not because they're malicious. It's not because they're evil or have some sort of nefarious agenda. But sometimes they bear false witness because they're just really bad people and them bearing false witness is a way for them to weaponize their words against you. Because it says there that the person who bears false witness is as a maul, a sword, and a sharp arrow. So they use it to attack you is what they do. So when someone bears false witness and you know that it's not true, they're making things up, it's because they want to be an adversary unto you. They're trying to weaponize their accusation against you because they want to cause you harm. You understand? Go to Matthew, if you would, chapter 15. Matthew chapter 15. Matthew chapter 15. Now look, sometimes people bear false witness and yeah, they lie knowingly. Not because they're just evil people, but just because they're sinners. Because everyone in here has lied, including myself. We've all lied. And the minute you say, well, I've never lied, then hey, welcome to the club because now you just did. Everyone has told a lie. Everyone has borne false witness to a certain extent. Maybe sometime in their life. I'm not saying that that's what you're characterized by, but everyone has at least done something like this for whatever reason. Why is that? Well, look at verse 17 of Matthew 15. Do not ye yet understand that whatsoever enterth in the mouth goeth into the belly and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands defileth not a man. Mark 14 56 is for many bear false witness against him, referring to Jesus, but their witness agreed not together. So here's the exception to the rule because you think, well, if there's two or three witnesses, every word shall be established. But sometimes there are more than two or three witnesses, but their witnesses don't agree together because there's people who bore witness against Jesus Christ. I mean, you had entire counsel accusing him of all kinds of things, but here's the difference. They didn't agree because they were lying. So even if they conspired, they got together and try to get their facts straight, the reality is this, you can do nothing against the truth before the truth. They lied and therefore their witnesses agreed not together. Go to 1 Timothy chapter five, 1 Timothy chapter five. So the way we apply this in church today, folks, is this, you know, if you hear someone in our church saying something or committing something, you better make sure there's another witness available. If you're going to turn that person in, you understand? You better make sure that there's someone there to hear what you're listening to. If you want grounds for some sort of accusation, okay? Now look, there's certain accusations that really don't really merit a whole lot of witnesses, I'll be honest with you, okay? You know, if someone, for example, comes to me and says this person was touching this little kid right now in an inappropriate way, you know, I'll be honest with you, I don't need another witness. I'll go to that person and the investigation will begin right away even if there is one witness because that's a grievous thing, right? That's a grievous sin. It's not like, well, you know, no one else saw it. Well, here's the thing, I don't believe anybody in our church is wicked, so I don't think anybody in our church is wicked enough to just falsely accuse someone of being some sort of pedophile or something like that. That's a grievous thing to do. You understand? But when there's other things involved, you know, statements that are made or offenses that are being put forth, you need to make sure you have another witness, okay? And before you open your mouth, before you go to the authority, before you want to falsely or accuse that individual, not falsely, but just accuse that individual of something that you heard, you better make sure you have your evidence in order. Because if you come to me and say, so-and-so did this, so-and-so said this, and if I say, was there anybody else present and you say no, then I can't convict that person or confront that individual or have any grounds to basically deal with that person. Even if potentially that person is guilty, you understand? And then I have to make a judgment call on that, okay? So this is important. You know, and look, we should, like our church should never become this assembly of just like looking for people to say something and making sure that I have like another witness with me, you understand? If you don't have a witness with you, maybe God just allowed it to be that way for some reason, you know? We shouldn't be like, okay, I'm gonna go talk to so-and-so, I gotta make sure I have someone with me just so we can fellowship or something. You know, we should be suspicious of one another. Don't be suspicious of one another, treat everyone kindly here, be gracious with one another, trust one another, and if they say something stupid and you look to the left and look to the right, you'll be like, well, the Lord knows, I guess, the Lord's gonna have to expose that for what it was because I'm the only one who heard it, you understand? Now look at 1 Timothy 5, verse 19, against an elder, what is an elder? An elder is a pastor, we don't really call ourselves elders today because that term has been marred by the Mormons, you know, who ride these bikes in short sleeve button-ups or whatever and, you know, those devils, you know, we don't really call it because they use that term but elders is a biblical term that simply means pastor. So let's use a literal day example myself, I'm a pastor, I'm the pastor of this church, I'm the elder of this church, and the reason it says elder, it doesn't mean because of the age but rather the spiritual maturity of that individual because only spiritually mature people should be, are qualified to be pastors, that's why the Bible says, not a novice, let's be lifted up with pride and fall into the condemnation of the devil, so someone who's only been saved for a year, five years, should not be a pastor because they're still a novice, they're still young in the Lord, whereas an elder is someone who has proven himself to be spiritually mature, who can judge situations, they've exercised their senses to discern both good and evil, you understand, they're skillful in the word of righteousness, this is what this is referring to, against an elder, receive not an accusation. Now what does that mean? That means if someone comes to GEO, let's say John comes to GEO, and John comes to GEO and says, hey, pastor said that you're ugly, I heard him say that, he said you're butt ugly, he said you're ugly and then he added the butt afterwards, right, GEO should be like, that's stupid, and just not receive it at all, so that means just as the pastor is actually set to a higher standard in the church, you should set the pastor as a higher standard for any accusation, and not just believe anything that's put forth against the pastor. Why? Well, number one, because of the fact that the pastor has a target on his back, and Satan and devils and reprobates are constantly trying to go after the pastor, so there's always accusations being put forth about pastors, myself, my friends, all the time, so therefore you should take accusations about a pastor with a grain of salt, is that the right term? Like water off a duck's back, I don't even know if I said that correctly, like water off a duck's back, in other words, don't take it serious. So if John comes to him and says, hey, pastor said you're butt ugly, you know, GEO should just be like, I don't really believe that, and I don't receive that accusation. That's an accusation. Okay? Unless I come to you and say, he's right, I said that. Do something about it. No, I'm just kidding. What I'm saying, you know, that's a silly example, but I'm just giving you an example of if someone comes to you accusing me of something, you're actually supposed to take it with, it's supposed to be like water off a duck's back to you. Unless it says, but before two or three witnesses. So if multiple people in the church come and say, no, I heard pastor say that GEO was butt ugly, Maury comes and said, yeah, I heard that loud and clear, he told me that. At that point, it's like, okay, there might be some validity to what's being stated because multiple people have said it. Okay? Now what is that grounds for? Well that's grounds for confronting the pastor and saying, pastor, I'm hearing through multiple people, two or three people that you're saying this about me. Is this true? Okay. And of course you investigate that and see if it's true or not. And that's it. Verse 20 says, then that sin rebuke before all that others may fear. Now let me give you an actual example of this that actually took place two weeks ago. Okay. Two people got thrown out of our church two weeks ago. All right. And it was over a false accusation that they made against yours truly. What happened? Well, after a Sunday morning service, you know, we're just fellowshipping and this individual comes to me and says, pastor, can I meet with you? I have a Bible question for you. And you know me, I'm like, sure, let's do it. Let's go to my office. And I honestly had no suspicion whatsoever that this was going to be some sort of bad meeting. I just literally thought, cause people ask me Bible questions all the time, they ask me for counsel, wisdom, whatever. And that sometimes that's just how the conversation goes, but he brought me in and he made this claim that, you know, he was, he was stating that Maury had preached a sermon and in that sermon that he had said something that he did not agree with. Okay. And he said, do you know what I'm talking about? I said, yes. And I said, I believe that like what Maury preached. That's what I believe. Actually. I thought that he probably got that from me. I don't know, but I agree with him. Now the verse at hand was Daniel 12 two and, and Daniel 12 two referring to the resurrection and it's the book of Daniel. It's an obscure passage. Okay. It's an obscure passage that we don't use for soul winning. We don't use to even teach about necessarily the resurrection. It's like a third, fourth reference that we would go to in order to teach on the resurrection, et cetera. And so he said, oh, you believe that? And I said, yeah. He goes, well, that sounds like a workspace salvation. And I was like, well, that has nothing to do with heaven and hell based upon my interpretation has nothing to do with heaven and hell. It has to do with the resurrection and rewards, blah, blah, blah. And then he said, well, it sounds to me like it's just a workspace salvation. And I said, well, I agree with you if that passage was teaching about heaven or hell, but because it's not teaching about heaven or hell, therefore it's not a workspace salvation issue. It's about the resurrection. And as, and here's the thing, I give them a huge backdoor. I said, but look, if you believe that, that's cool. Like I don't, I'm fine with that. I know people who believe that it's not a big issue. He's like, well, I think it's a big issue because it sounds like you're teaching a workspace salvation. And I said, well, again, if I believe that it was talking about heaven and hell and now, and that's what I was teaching at that point, you have some credence to that, but because I don't believe it's talking about heaven or hell, and I've never mentioned it in reference to heaven or hell, then I'm not teaching a workspace salvation. I'm teaching a verse about the resurrection and rewards, et cetera. So he persisted. He persisted and kept pushing it and kept pushing it. And I just kept telling him like, that's cool. You can believe that. That's fine. You know, no problem. You can believe that. We all disagree on certain things and secondary issues and blah, blah, blah. But he just kept bringing it up and kept bringing it up. At which point I said, so are you saying that I'm a heretic? So this is what I call the switch, you know, like a light switch. The light switch, when I talk to people is always off, it's always off. But there's a point where someone can actually surpass that boundary where the light switch turns on. And at that point, now it's like, okay, now you're not just a sincere person asking a sincere question. Now you're falsely accusing me of being a heretic, which I find greatly offensive, which according to the Bible is a railing accusation. And I got it in his face. I mean, who, I mean, that's just, yeah, I confronted him. I got in his face. He's like, whoa, hey, whoa. You know, you're getting in my face. I'm like, yeah, you're calling me a heretic, right? And he's like, well, you know, it just sounds like you're teaching a workspace salvation, you know, and all that. I said, okay, hold that thought. So what I did is I went to go get two witnesses, right, because that's what the, that's what the Bible teaches. I don't want to walk out of this meeting, you know, with this idiot who's accusing me of being a false teacher and have no one there to prove it. So I called in Hike and I called in Maury and then we rehashed everything that we said. And I was like, so you're saying that I'm a false teacher. That's what you're saying. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a sec. He's like, you brought this up to me. That's what he said, he's like, you brought this up to me. I said, correction, you called me into the office to ask me about this. I gave you a big back door and you're claiming that I'm teaching heresy. He's like, okay, well, yeah, that's true, right? I have the two witnesses right here. See how valuable it is to have two witnesses? That's why they're laughing, because they heard it. And I said, look, this is how you know I'm not teaching a workspace salvation, because I have a YouTube channel, almost 10,000 subscribers, almost, what is it, 2 million views, right? And guess what? I have tons of clips and tons of sermons talking about what I believe about salvation, what I believe about hell, what I believe about the judgment seat of Christ, where I'm clear. I spent hours teaching about these things. So here's the evidence that you can see, and based upon the evidence that you look at YouTube, you know I'm not teaching a workspace salvation. I said, look, if I was saying that John 3, if I had a weird interpretation of John 3.16, which is a clear verse, okay, you have some grounds, but we're not talking about John 3.16. And I told him, I said, do you ever use Daniel 12.2 in your gospel presentation? No. I said, have you ever used it to describe hell? No. Have you ever used it at all? No. But yet this is the verse you want to use to claim that I'm a false teacher and that I'm a heretic? So he said, all right, so what do we do? I was like, what do we do? You're done. He's like, well, we can just leave quietly. I'm like, oh, it's too late for that. That ship has sailed. They had that opportunity before I turned the switch on. But after the switch has been flipped, now you're getting thrown out. What were they throwing out for? For a railing accusation, which these two men heard, straight from the beast's mouth, straight from the donkey's mouth himself, bringing a railing accusation against the pastor. Right. Now, in this situation, I'm not only the accused, but I'm actually the judge as well. Because typically I'm just a judge and I have to make a judgment call based upon a situation. But guess what? I'm the sheriff, but I'm also the justice of the peace. So it's just like, I'm the accused and it's just like, I just turn the little thing around and I'm like, all right, now I'm the judge. And based upon the judgment that I'm making, you deserve to be thrown out for bringing a railing accusation against the pastor. And let me make something clear. A railing accusation to rail on someone, according to the Bible, is to bring up a false report about them. About despising governments, criticizing authority, bringing some sort of railing accusation, some false report, some false record about a church leader or a pastor. That's what that's referring to. And obviously you can bring a railing accusation towards anybody else in the church, it's just a false report is what it is. In this context, we were talking about a railing accusation against the pastor. Now according to 1 Corinthians 5.11, they deserve to be thrown out. Because the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 5.11, but now I've written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator or covetous or an idolater or a railer or a drunkard or extortioner was such a one, know not to eat. So you're not even supposed to have company with people who do this, who bring a railing accusation against another brother in Christ, but especially a pastor. And look, if you agree with that couple, then go look at the evidence on YouTube. Go look at every single sermon that I preach about salvation and then come back to me and see if that's true or not. And if you think that's true, then go somewhere else. But as far as I know, the overall consensus of our church is that I'm not a false prophet. That I don't teach a workspace salvation. You say, well why would they say that? Well, I gave it to them right before I kicked them out and I said, you know what? This isn't about me being a heretic or a false prophet. I said, you're bitter. I said, you have bitterness in your heart. You're angry at people in our church. You're upset with different individuals because we've had issues with that couple for quite some time. They're very sensitive people and they think no one's nice to them in our church. It's funny, him and his wife claim that no one's nice to them in our church. No one's friendly to them in our church. Literally why he's telling me that, his wife's right here and Angela tells Lorena, oh man I feel bad that she's just sitting there. We should just go talk to her and be friendly with her so she's not by herself, right? So Lorena goes over there and is just like, you know, trying to be nice to her and these people are, they're just rude. They're extremely rude. They're very rude people. They've been rude to me. They've been rude to different people in our church. For me, it's like when people are rude to me in our church, it's just like, well maybe they just need to grow up or something, I don't know, like they're just rude people but they were just consistently, perpetually rude. Don't be a rude person, okay? Learn to be nice to people. Learn to smile every once in a while. Learn to not make so many smart remarks all the time. Learn how to have a conversation with people. So Lorena's talking to this lady, being friendly to her while her husband's saying, no one's friendly to us. Lorena, did you know what I was doing in there? She didn't know anything about that. It's not like, hey Lorena, I think I'm going to kick these people out. Do me a favor to make it look really good. Just fellowship with the wife so we can really lay it on them thick afterwards. No, this is just something that our church naturally did. So I was like, you're out of here. So he took the walk of shame. He said, what's the walk of shame? It's as they're walking out, the pastor's just like giving them that look and everyone knows, oh crap, these people are being thrown out and Lorena's just like, she's like talking to her and I was just like, conversation's over. I was like, you got to go and everyone's like, oh, and then they walked out and I told them, I said, you're leaving not because you think I'm a heretic, it's because you're bitter but you want to bring up this railing accusation because it sounds pretty wimpy to leave our church because you're bitter about someone. It sounds a lot more, it sounds better to say, we're leaving because the pastor teaches false doctrine. He's teaching a workspace salvation. That's why we left. No, it's because you're a wimp. It's because you can't seem to get along with people in church. You can't seem to, you know, get over some sort of bitterness. You can't seem to forgive people. You can't seem to give people a second chance. Folks, we're to give people second chances, especially in our church. If someone offended you and they wronged you or they falsely accused you, forgive them. Forgive them, be friends, go to Cain's, go hang out, go soul win, go laugh, be friends again. Why? Because if you plan to stay in our church, you're going to see them for the rest of this side of eternity. So you might as well work on getting along with people. And if you're like, well, I can't do it, well, then you need to go somewhere else, but don't you dare leave on some sort of grounds that I'm a false teacher or something. That's a railing accusation. And that's why I brought the two witnesses, Elijah and Moses right here, the two witnesses. Go to John chapter five, if you would, John chapter five, actually go to Matthew 18, Matthew 18. So you see that the value of two witnesses. And I was going to spend some time on this, but I'm going to just briefly cover this. For example, this Old Testament concept of two witnesses is even essential to explain the Trinity. It adds more credence and validity to the explanation of the Trinity, because you have oneness Pentecostals, these modalists who try to teach that Jesus is the Father, they'll try to teach that, you know, it's one God in different modes, whereas the biblical teaching of the Trinity is that there are three separate people, one God. And the proof of that is the fact that Jesus said himself that his Father bore witness of him. And the Bible even says in John 8, 15, you don't have to turn there, ye judge after the flesh I judge no man, and yet if I judge my judgment is true, for I am not alone, but I am the Father that sent me, it is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. So the Holy Spirit is bearing witness of Jesus, God the Father is bearing witness of Jesus, John the Baptist is bearing witness of Jesus. You have all these witnesses to validate that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and therefore that validates and confirms the Trinity. Because if it was just all one person, you wouldn't be able to use this Old Testament law, because out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, separate entities, shall every word be established. And so because the Father's will, he has a separate will from Jesus Christ, even though they agree with one another, they have separate wills, therefore God the Father can testify of the Son, and in fact, folks, when we go preach the gospel, we are telling people of the witness of God, of his Son. We're not even testifying of the witness of Jesus, we're actually giving the witness of God the Father of Jesus, about Jesus, that through him whosoever believeth in him shall have everlasting life. So you see the importance of having two or three witnesses, even when it comes to the Trinity? It's essential even to prove the fact that it's three people, one God. Look at Matthew 18 verse 15, back to my previous poem, moreover if thy brother trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Look folks, a lot of issues would be resolved if we would just follow that first point right there. Sometimes I don't even need to get involved. I prefer not to get involved because y'all are drama sometimes. I'm not going to say just kidding either. It's best for you to just kind of deal with issues one on one. Sometimes you don't need me to get involved. Now obviously sometimes some things and situations can escalate to a point where I do need to get involved, you know, but sometimes it doesn't. If you guys have a tift with one another, you fight amongst each other, then go deal with it on your own. If you're mature enough, you know, and spiritual enough to do that, if it's a situation outside of that, then okay, I'll get involved. But here it says, if thy brother trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one to two more than in the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be established. So at that point it's like, well, this person's not listening, I'm going to bring Damien with me. Damien's going to see that, you know, what this person is saying, and therefore there's another witness there who knows what is being spoken of. Verse 17, and if he neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church, but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man, as a publican. Now one person that is involved in this that's not clearly stated is myself, because in order for it to come to the church, it has to come to me first, and I'm the one who brings it before the church. So if Adan is confronting Morrie about something, Morrie's like, well, I'm not going to get that right. And Adan's like, well, you owe me 50 bucks. And he's like, no, I don't. What are you going to do about it? And then he brings Damien and he says, hey, this situation's happening, can you just come with me to be a witness? And he's like, I'm not giving him that 50 bucks, and if you two say anything, you know, I'm going to kick your butts or something like that. At that point, they bring it to me. And they say, hey, this and this is happening, Damien's a witness, we also have another witness that says this, and at that point, we basically go confront Morrie, and if Morrie is unrepentant of that, and says, I'm not paying him the 50 bucks. At that point, he's like, okay, then tonight, we're doing church discipline on you and you're getting thrown out. I'm bringing it before the church. Now, we all know that Morrie saved. I think we all know that. The general consensus is that Morrie saved, okay? But the Bible says that once Morrie gets kicked out of church, he's supposed to be unto us as a heathen man and as a publican. Doesn't mean we go and question his salvation, we just treat him like an unsaved person according to the Bible. Heathen man and a publican is referring to just an individual who's just not saved. He says in verse 18, verily I say unto you, what gives you that right? Well whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. God is saying, I confirm and agree and support the judgment of this church. That's what he's saying. So guess what? The people who got thrown out two weeks ago, God's against them. Because they were judged by this local assembly according to Matthew 18. And they are unto us as heathens and as publicans. Well, do you think they're reprobates or something? I don't care. I just treat them as a heathen man and as a publican. That's not my to call. I don't know if they are or not. I don't really care. I'm just doing what the Bible says, which is to treat them as a heathen and as a publican. Go to Mark 6, and we're done. Mark chapter 6. There's value in having two witnesses, folks. And again, if you hear something, you see something, you're the only one, well at that point you're just going to have to pray, Lord, reveal this, expose this, help bring it to light because I'm the only one who's ever found out about this or something. But if not, make sure you have another witness before you bring an accusation against someone. And I'm not defending those who are accused as though they're not guilty because they potentially could be guilty. Sometimes that's the case, but sometimes it's not. What I'm saying is regardless of whether they're guilty or not, we need to make sure we follow these biblical mandates to make sure we go about it the right way. And here's the last principle that I want to give. The value of two witnesses when soul winning. Verse 7 of Mark 6 says, and he came into the, and he called unto him the 12 and began to send them forth by two and two and gave them power over unclean spirits. Now in Luke 10 and Matthew and Mark, we see that God sent, Jesus sends out his disciples two and two. And I believe it's because of this particular reason that we're talking about here. Because out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word shall be established. So when we go soul winning together, two and two, you know what we're doing? We're bearing witness of the truth. We're going together and we're in agreement with one another. We're bearing witness of the truth and we're saying, hey, God, the father said this of his son. This is a true statement. He agrees with me. I believe that that's the reason why Jesus Christ sent them out two and two. And look, let me say this is that it needs to remain this way in our church. And sometimes we have to triple up or whatever and have three or four because the teams aren't even or whatever it may be. But there needs to be more than two people, more than one person out soul winning together. That's why we have the teams. Now with that being said, let me explain something. When you're out with your teams, okay, and you're going out two and two and you got one knocking on the door, don't deviate from your soul winning partner. Don't just like, well, I need to get my time in. I need to make sure we get more people saved so I'm just going to go to the next door. No, stay there with your team. Stay there with them. Number one, because for practical reasons, what if something happens at that door? Let's say it's someone of the opposite gender. Something happens at that door and you're like, oh, man, this person did this. It's like, well, I wasn't there. I don't know. I didn't see it. So it safeguards you from potential false accusations because, you know, they call the authorities on you and it's just like, well, I have a witness here but that didn't happen, you know. They can say whatever they want but we have people here that saw that it didn't happen. But folks, if you're just like a lone ranger, which no Christian should be a lone ranger soul winner in our church, well, I just like to get things done with someone else. So for one, it's for safety purposes but for two, it's for accountability purposes as well. Making sure that you're preaching right, amen, especially if you're like a new soul winner or something. You know, it's good to have an accountability partner there, okay. Making sure you're not sloppy in your presentation, you're just not haphazardly preaching or whatever. It's good. Well, I know how to soul win. I get people saved all the time. I listen to Pastor Jimenez and Pastor Anderson, oh, great, then you don't have a problem with going with another person then because Pastor Jimenez and Pastor Anderson both teach that, right? So thanks for bringing that up. Then you don't have an issue with that. Well, you know, I already, I go soul winning and I get a bunch of people saved. Are you saying I can't preach the gospel? I'm not saying that but you're making me think that if you're unwilling to go with someone. So under the mouth of two or three witnesses when you're going soul winning is important because number one, for accountability. Number two, for safety purposes. And number three, by the way, like safety purposes. I mean like when David and I were going out soul winning, you know, I deviated from him to the sidewalk with my family. You know, I mean he was like a couple steps away and I almost got jumped and David wasn't there to help me. He didn't deliver me. He didn't rescue me. You know? Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just kidding. And you know, there's people there and I'm like, man, we should have just stayed at the door with me and my family or whatever, you know? I'm just joking. But I'm saying, you know, that's for safety purposes, accountability purposes. And lastly, it's just for encouragement. You know, it's for encouragement to talk to your soul winning partner and receive encouragement and just, you know, fellowship. Probably that's a good time of fellowship, you understand? And so you can see why the principle of two or three witnesses is essential throughout the Bible, not just for conflicts, not just for strife, but even to prove the Trinity, to give more credence to the Trinity or even in practical ministry, such as soul winning, going out two and two. Amen? And so always make sure you have another witness. Let's pray. Father, we thank you so much for your word and for the practicality thereof. I pray that you'd help us, Lord, and give us wisdom, give us understanding, fill us with your spirit, Lord, and help us to give heed to the simple truth of just having another witness there with us that every word may be established. And I pray God that you bless us today and give us a great remainder of the Sunday, soul winning and...