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And with listening and we really pray that you will edify us today for your word and that you understand it and apply in our lives. And also please go out the Holy Spirit upon the preacher. We pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Alright, we're here in Ephesians chapter 4 and as I said we've got basically a two-part series here today. And what I'm doing in this series or these two sermons today is basically looking at all the terms in the Bible that are part of ordained leadership or other terms that people think are part of ordained leadership. This first sermon I'm looking at pastor, bishop, and elder. And then there's terms like deacon. There's other terms that churches do like reverend. Then there's evangelist. There's a lot of different terms and I think there's a lot of confusion on what each of these are referring to. Now I don't think I've ever heard a whole sermon that really just broke all these things down so I was interested to study it out myself. And so this sermon is pastor versus bishop versus elder. That's the name of the sermon. Now here's the thing. The pastor versus bishop versus elder, if you want to really understand it in a nutshell, it's like the Trinity. Because these are different and yet they are the same. And what I mean by that is they're all part of the same position but they're different roles within that position. Just as God the Father is not God the Son, God the Son is not God the Holy Ghost, God the Father is not God the Holy Ghost and yet you can't fully separate them either. And in totality they make up totally God. And yet each and in their own right is God. Now I'm not saying it's a perfect illustration but a pastor is not the same as a bishop and yet they're used interchangeably in the Bible. Bishop is not the same as elder and yet they're used interchangeably many times. You say why? Well they're different but they're also kind of the same as well because it's the same position. This is also kind of a confusing term to us because if you come from different churches and backgrounds, if you come from a Mormon church, you're probably very confused on what an elder is. If you come from a Catholic church you could be very confused on what a bishop is. Churches take these terms and they just go in different directions and describe them very differently but what does the Bible say? Now point number one is this. We have four points in this first sermon. In the Bible a shepherd and a pastor are 100% synonymous. They are the exact same thing. Now here's the thing. In our modern day language a shepherd is basically always used to refer to taking care of literal sheep and a pastor has become the spiritual term. But in the Bible, shepherd, I mean Jesus is the chief shepherd. Indicating he's not the only shepherd, he's the chief shepherd. So shepherd would actually be a biblical term to call someone who's a pastor. You could say shepherd Jimenez, there's nothing wrong with that. Now I don't say that because it's not the way we speak in 2021 so I'm not trying to confuse people. They're like it's his side job he takes care of sheep. It's like I don't want to confuse people so of course I say pastor Jimenez as well. But shepherd and pastor, they're not just the same and different. No, they are the exact same thing in the Bible when you cross reference. In fact, the word pastor appears one time in the New Testament. That might surprise you but it only appears one time in the New Testament. Shepherd actually appears more times to refer to this position of pastor in the New Testament than the word pastor. The word pastor appears in Ephesians 4-11 so let's look at it. And he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. The body of Christ is referring to the local church body. In this book it's the church of Ephesus. For us it's Verity Manila. Whatever your local body is, your local church body. In the second sermon we're going to break down all of these other terms and explain them. We're just looking at pastor here in this first sermon in terms of these terms. But go to Jeremiah chapter 3 in your Bible. Jeremiah chapter 3. Jeremiah chapter 3. I'm actually sorry. I think I forgot my water back there. If someone can see my water container and if not maybe give me a cup of water. Sorry about that. I always lose my voice because I get too passionate when I'm yelling so I've got to prepare myself. But shepherd and pastor are 100% the same thing. They are used interchangeably throughout the Bible. There is no difference between them. I appreciate it. Thanks brother. And so in Jeremiah chapter 3, let me give you an example of this. Jeremiah 3 verse 15. So according to Jeremiah 3 verse 15, a pastor is going to feed you with knowledge and understanding. Now of course this is in the Old Testament and obviously God operates a tad bit differently now. The Bible talks about it in the book of Hebrews to start off that book. But it refers to pastors as feeding you with knowledge and understanding. Well here's the thing. A shepherd feeds the literal sheep. And a pastor is meant to feed the flock. The sheep of that church. Whether you call it a pastor or shepherd, one of the main jobs is to feed the people. Teach them the word of God. Go to Jeremiah 23. Now I think most people are aware of this, that I am not the pastor of this church. I'm the evangelist of this church. And Lord willing if the lockdown ever ends and travel is okay, because I don't think you do ordinations via the computer. There's the Skype live stream and Pastor Menes is touching the screen and I'm on the other side. It's like, I don't know. I've never heard of that happening in real life. So we'll see if the lockdown ever ends and everything like that. But as of now Pastor Menes is the pastor of this church. And basically he sent me here because he trusted me to run this church and operate this church. But he is still the ultimate authority of this church. Now in Jeremiah 23 verse 1 it says, Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture, saith the Lord. So it says pastors and it says the sheep of my pasture. But he's not referring to literal physical sheep like an animal. He's referring to people, right? But he says the pastor, and these are bad pastors in Jeremiah 23, these are false pastors and they're scattering the sheep. Verse 2, Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people, ye have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not visited them. Behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doing, saith the Lord. Verse 3, And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds, and they shall be fruitful and increase. Now what is the context we've been talking about? Pastors scattering the sheep. And in verse 2 it talked about pastors feeding the people. But then in verse 4 notice what it says, And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them, and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord. You say, why is it talking about shepherds? Because a shepherd and a pastor are interchangeable. That's what we're seeing here in Jeremiah 23. Now why does the Bible use the term shepherd when it refers to this position? And basically it's synonymous with pastor because it's helping you understand the job or the role of a pastor. See, one of the main things you do as a pastor is you feed the congregation. Right? When we're saying pastor versus bishop versus elder, they have different roles. And one of the roles of a pastor when you're using that term is to feed the people. Okay? You're supposed to teach them the word of God. So if you're at a church and you're never learning anything in the sermons, then the pastor of that church is not doing his job because he's supposed to be feeding you spiritually. Okay? So a pastor and a shepherd are used interchangeably because it's trying to help you understand that role of being a pastor. Now that's not the only thing that shepherds do. Shepherds will take care of their physical sheep. If there's any danger, if there's any problems, they step in to take care of those sheep. Right? And see, that is part of that role of being a pastor where you care about those sheep. Right? That's really what a pastor is doing. He cares about his people. That is what that role is. And if you care about your people, you're going to feed the people. You're going to protect the people. That is that job, that role of being a pastor. Okay? Now turn to John 10. And the Bible says in John 10 verse 11 about Jesus Christ, it says, I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. Right? Now we saw that a shepherd and a pastor are used interchangeably. And I'm not showing you all the... There's a lot of references in Jeremiah. But a shepherd and a pastor, that's the same thing. And Jesus is called the chief shepherd in the Bible. And see, what you're seeing here is that the good shepherd, referring to Jesus Christ, he gave his life for the sheep. And giveth is really present tense here in verse 11. So one day he did die and pay for the sins. But he was a living sacrifice every day, as the Bible says. Okay? Most likely, none of us will have to die and pay for... Well, you won't pay for their sins. But most likely, you won't have to die for somebody else. Right? Most likely, you won't have to take a bullet to save somebody else. But the Bible says we can be living sacrifices in our lives. Every day we lay down our lives and care about other people more than ourselves. That's what the Bible is saying here. And Jesus was the ultimate example of being a shepherd. Because he literally died and paid for our sins. But each and every day was not about him. He did not come to be ministered unto. He came to minister and to give his life a ransom for many, the Bible says. Look, if you say, Brother Stuckey, I have a desire to be a pastor one day. Well, what that better mean is that you're willing to lay down your life and care about other people more than yourself. That you're not going to be self-willed. That you're going to be hospitable. Because if you're going to do a good job of being a church leader, that means you care about your members above yourself. That is what the Bible says. That is the job of being a pastor. That's that role. And Jesus was the good shepherd. He was the ultimate example. Verse 12. But he that is in hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveeth the sheep, and fleeth, and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth because he is in hireling, and careth not for the sheep. See, the Bible says if you're in hireling, meaning that you basically just look at it as a job, but you don't actually care about those sheep, when trouble comes, you're just going to walk away. Because it's a lot easier to walk away when trouble comes. Let me tell you that. It's a whole lot easier to just walk away and say, hey, whatever happens, happens, because I'm looking out for number one. Just a paycheck to me. It doesn't matter to me. Right? And see, that is what a hireling would do, because they don't actually care about the sheep. You know, in all actuality, if you join a new church, it is impossible to know whether that church leader cares about you or not when you first join. The only way you know is when trouble comes, does he stick his own neck on the line, or does he flee? That's how you can tell, right? Isn't that what we're seeing in John 10? The test of whether or not you're going to be a hireling, or you're going to do a good job, is do you put your own neck on the line when necessary? Or do you walk away and flee? Right? And see, the Bible says the hireling, the person who just looks at it as a job, who doesn't actually care about the sheep, well, what's he going to do when a wolf comes? He's going to walk away. Why would he put his own neck on the line if it's just a paycheck? Just like, I'll just walk away and whatever happens, happens, because I don't really care about any of the sheep, I just care about myself. That's reality. Right? Verse 14, I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. And Jesus was the perfect example of being a shepherd, because he literally laid down his life for the sins of the entire world. Right? Now, go to Ephesians, chapter 5. Ephesians 5. Now, when it comes to these terms of pastor, bishop, and elder, they have different roles, and we're getting into that in this sermon. But I will say this. I think one of the main reasons why the term pastor is the most common is because it's the one that we care about the most. Right? When it comes to being a bishop, a bishop is basically laying down rules and authority. It's laying down structure and authority. But you know what? When I was at churches, the thing I cared about the most was just that my pastor actually cared about me. And I went to churches where the churches were not perfect, some doctrines were wrong, but I knew that my pastor actually cared about me. And I said, you know what? He cares about me. I'll be loyal and help out this church, even if I don't agree with every single thing they're doing, because he actually cares about me. It's kind of like working at a job. If your boss cares about you, don't you work harder? But if he doesn't care about you, you just say, well, I'm just in it for the money. It's just a paycheck. Right? My boss doesn't care about me. Well, you know what? I'm just going to try to make money, and that's it. But if your boss actually cares about you. I've had literal bosses at just secular jobs that actually cared about me. Like, I felt that they actually cared about me. You know, they'd come when they showed up to work. When they came to work, they'd come and say, hello, Brother Matt, how are you doing? Right? And I felt like he actually cared about me. And I tried to do a good job because I actually liked my boss. Right? And see, when it comes to being a pastor, it's really the role of just caring for and taking care of the sheep. That's really the one that would be the most important to us, I would say. Now, in Ephesians 5, notice what it says in verse 25. It says, Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. See, the Bible says Christ loved the church and he gave himself for it. He literally died for us, but each and every passing day was about other people. Now, isn't it true that the Bible says to be a pastor, one requirement is that you're married with multiple children? One requirement. Right? You say, why is that? Well, there's many reasons why, but one of the main reasons is, you know, an old phrase I've heard in Baptist churches, the first church you ever pastor is your home. And you know what? Honestly, that's a biblical and great phrase because it's literally the same job function. Think about this. As fathers, one of your jobs is to lay down your life for the family. Because the Bible gives this example that Christ died for the church as husbands are supposed to lay down their own lives for their wives. Right? In fact, look at Ephesians 6, verse 4. Ephesians 6, verse 4. And notice what it says here. And look, Ephesians 6, verse 4 was a very comforting verse to me when my son was about to be born because, you know what, before you're, you know, going to have a child, you feel like it's going to be very easy, but once the moment's coming close, it's like, all right, am I going to do everything correct? And you know what? Nobody's going to do a perfect job as a father or mother. None of us. Right? We make mistakes, but the Bible just lists two things here as a father in Ephesians 6, verse 4. And ye fathers provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. The Bible says, nurture and admonition. Okay? Those two things. I might screw up a lot as a father, but if I provide nurture and admonition, then you know what? I'm going to do a good job. And the same is true for all of us. We're not going to do a perfect job, but if the father cares about his children and provides the necessary discipline, he's going to do a good job. He's not going to do a perfect job, but he's going to do a good job. Well, what's interesting is Ephesians 6, 4, the nurturer is the pastor, the admonition is the bishop. That's what it is. Because admonition is laying down rules and structure, and there's the spanking when necessary. That's the job of a bishop being the oversight, the Bible says. But the nurturer is the shepherd. It's the pastor caring for and taking care of the sheep. So look, Ephesians 6, 4 is a great verse when you're thinking of the role of being a pastor, because that is literally pastor and bishop when it says nurture and admonition. Now the elder is referencing experience. Obviously, the older your kids are, the more children you have, the more experience you have. You need some experience before you become a pastor, and the Bible says don't lay hands suddenly on no man. But obviously, as time goes by, you get more experience. But when you're looking at Ephesians 6, 4, nurture is referring to the pastor's role, and admonition is referring to the bishop's role just perfectly. That's exactly what it's referring to. Doesn't it make sense, the Bible says before you're an ordained pastor, bishop, elder, whatever you want to call it, that you need to be a father with children? Because that is actually training you. You're doing the exact same thing that you do. Now what's interesting is this. Now turn to 1 Peter 5. Now here's the thing about this. All kids love it when you provide nurture. Every child wants to spend time with their parents. They're happy when you're spending time and caring for them and everything. But when they get upset is when you provide admonition, when you tell them no. No more candy. No more watching cartoons or whatever. It's time to go to bed. It's 9 o'clock. That's when they get upset at you. You know, it's the same thing in a local church as well. It's like everybody likes it if the pastor lays down his life and takes care of the sheep and puts in all this effort. But once you have any rules, it's like, oh, don't boss us around. It's like, but think about the role of a father. A father, yes, provides nurture. He also has to provide admonition as well. Right? And look, if you're going to run a church, you need both of those things. If it's nurture, nurture, nurture, hey, it's okay that you're sleeping with your father's wife. Isn't that the Church of Corinth? You're missing a big part. Right? Now, if it's all admonition, there's a problem as well. You need that balance of both of those things. It's just funny, though, how people love it if you act like a pastor and a shepherd. But don't tell me what to do. Don't criticize me. Don't ever say anything bad about me. Look, you need both of those things. You need the aspect of being a pastor. And let me tell you this. I prefer the role of being a pastor. I wasn't in the military. I'm not a drill sergeant. Right? I'm willing to say that he's 50 years old, no experience whatsoever. Well, he's a novice at that company. That's probably not very common to hire someone with no experience on a job at 50 years old. But they would be a novice at that job. Right? Whereas somebody might have graduated college and only be 30 years old, but if they've been working for 10 years for that company, don't they have more experience than the person who's older by 20 years? So when we're speaking toward elder, it's really referring to spiritually having maturity and experience. Now, here's the thing. You can only learn so much at a young age, though, no matter how long you've been saved for. If somebody is 18 years old and they've been saved for 12 years, I don't care how spiritually mature they think they are. They still have to learn some lessons in life to help them out no matter how many times they've read the Bible. It's just part of life. You need experience. And you know, one of the things is experience raising a family, because that is the direct example given and the proving ground to being a pastor. Okay? But what I'm saying is this. You could say somebody's 30 years old and an elder if they have a lot of experience. Right? And it says, The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder Peter was an elder, he was a pastor, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed. Verse 2. Notice this. Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint but willingly, not for filthy lucre but of a ready mind. Well, feeding the flock of God, isn't that what we saw that's linked with being a pastor or a shepherd? But these roles do intersect to some degree. The other thing is it says feed the flock of God which is among you, then taking the oversight thereof. What is that? That's called being a bishop. That's the admonition. That's the laying down of rules. Now, of course, the more experience you have doing this, the easier it's going to be. Right? And this is why before someone gets ordained as a pastor, it's important that they actually serve at a local church and they get experience with some of these things. You learn a lot of lessons. I will say this, that if somebody has an experience with managing companies and overseeing people, they can get some of this experience even outside of the Bible, even before they're saved. Right? One great example is Pastor Jared Pozarnsky who just got ordained. When he first came to Verity, when he moved there, he had only been saved for, I don't know, three, four years or something like that. But his kids were extremely well behaved, extremely respectful. His wife had homeschooled the kids. He had been a manager at an engineering company and had overseen a lot of projects and everything. It was obvious this guy's got some experience even though spiritually he hasn't been saved for as long as some other people. Right? And so you can get some experience outside of the Bible if you're used to dealing with people and managing them because as a pastor of a church, you're going to have to oversee and manage things. And getting experience in the secular world can be a good thing for you. Right? But it says here then, taking the oversight there, not by constraint but willingly, not from filthy lucre but of a ready mind. Neither is being lords over God's heritage but being examples to the flock. And so the Bible says you're not a lord over God's heritage but you are examples. Now, look, I love every verse in the Bible and I love this verse, but people I've heard take this verse way out of context from what the Bible's saying. Because once you start laying down rules in church, they're like, you know, you're a dictator. Right? That's what I've been called recently. I'm a dictator because I have rules at a church. Well, here's the thing. Being a lord over God's heritage would be if I went to your personal home and told your wife how to dress. Or I went to your home and told you what music to listen to. Here's the thing, though. Who's the authority at this church? It's me, underneath Pastor Jimenez. So guess what? When you are the authority, you're the one who lays down the rules. That's the way it works. Good luck making it in the secular world and working if you're not willing to listen to the boss. You've got to just listen to the rules whether you agree with it or not. That's just the way it goes. And here's the thing. All churches operate differently. All churches operate differently. You know, if you got a job and you moved to Sacramento or you moved to Phoenix, Arizona or whatever church, you know what? That church would operate a little bit differently and you would have to change a little bit to fit that church. Let me give you an example of something we do at our church that I personally love and some of you might hate. And, well, it just is what it is, right? We have back-to-back church services on Sunday morning. That's pretty unique, isn't it? There's not a lot of churches that do that. Now, here's the thing. There are advantages and disadvantages to that. Here's one huge advantage. You are able to get home and have dinner as a family and not be here and get home at midnight because you're able to have both church services, fellowship and soul winning like that. I personally love that because, you know what, I have always had a lot of hobbies, poems, working out, various things. So I like being able to get home at a decent time. I can even get back to Pampanga at 8 p.m. or 7 p.m. It's not even that bad. And I think it's really good to get people coming from a long distance and it works very well. That is a huge advantage. Here's a huge disadvantage. It's very hard on the moms. You say, why? Try getting kids to sit still for three straight hours. It's very hard on the moms. That's reality, right? It is very hard for kids to sit still for two straight services. I understand that's a huge disadvantage to moms in that aspect, right? It's very difficult. There are some advantages and some disadvantages. You might look at this and say, wow, I don't like this because I wish it was like this. And you know what? There are advantages that way, but there's also advantages this way. But regardless of what church you go to, you just have to adopt to whatever that church goes to. That's just the way it is. That's the reason one of our rules at our church is that the mother-baby room is for moms and pregnant ladies. Now, I don't know why we've had so much trouble getting ladies to listen to this rule because that is very helpful for those moms. I'm always frustrated when I hear that there's a bunch of gossiping going on and the moms weren't even able to hear the sermon because a bunch of single ladies are just hanging out there goofing off. And it's like, why won't you just listen to the rules that we have, right? It's like the mother-baby. The term mother means not spiritual children. Physical children is what we mean. And why do we do that? Well, because it's hard with kids in general. We want to make it as easy as possible for the moms. We also understand that with pregnant ladies, obviously there can be difficulties and that room is available for them as well. Now, look, obviously as a lady you're allowed to use the restroom if you need to use the restroom. But you don't hang out in there as a single lady. And look, the moms aren't supposed to hang out there either. And what's frustrating to me is this. This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about is that my wife will tell me about how several ladies want to hear the sermon but then there's a bunch of single ladies just goofing off. And what is that rule doing? It's protecting the people that actually want to serve God versus the ones distracting from them, right? Look, this is church. I get it. It's a different room. I don't see what's going on. But at the same time, this is church. You're meant to be paying attention and learning, not goofing off. And see, the rules that we have, Brother Stuckey is so strict. But if I don't make any rules, everyone's goofing off back there. And not all the ladies, just the ones that don't want to pay attention. See, if you want to serve God, you should be happy that we have certain rules. Now, I don't always preach why I do everything the way I do, but there's reasons why we do it. And look, if you want to serve God and you want to be a blessing, you're just going to try to just follow what the rules are instead of always fighting against it, right? And so it says here in... So look, being a lord over God's heritage would mean when I go to your personal home and tell you what to do. I preach against rock music all the time behind this pulpit. But you know what? Let me be honest. You are welcome to listen to rock music in your personal time if you want to. You want to listen to the devil teach you, go ahead. Because I don't run your life. You don't get kicked out of church for listening to rock music. You might get preached against, not by name, but just me preaching against the doctrine. But you can do what you want in your personal time, right? Then it says in verse 4, And when the chief shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. Now, notice how it went from elder to shepherd in verse 4. Now, the chief shepherd is referring to the Lord Jesus Christ because he will appear. But saying the chief shepherd indicates he's not the only shepherd, grammatically. If he is the chief shepherd, he's not the only shepherd. Otherwise, he wouldn't have to call him the chief shepherd, right? And so he's the chief shepherd. But you know what you see is it shifts from elder to shepherd slash pastor. But they have different roles. You say, well, Brother Stuckey, what exactly is the role of an elder? Well, look at what it says in verse 5. Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another and be clothed with humility, for God resisteth the proud and giveth grace to the humble. Now, here's the thing. In verse 5, when it says elder, it is referring to an age. It's referring to basically a 20-year-old submitting to a 40-year-old and being respectful. However, it's also helping you describe, understand what that role is of being an ordained elder. Obviously, what does the word elder mean? You're older, right? Now, of course, we teach and believe that young people should be respectful of older people. You know, when you have like a 10-year-old who wants to tell their mom or dad something and they interrupt a conversation, that's rude. And you know, kids do this. My kids do this sometimes. And it's like, no, son, do not interrupt when we're talking to someone. Or no, son, when we're on the phone, you need to be quiet because they need to learn that lesson. And see, the Bible says that the younger submit to the elder. But it's also helping you get an understanding of what an elder is. And that's somebody with some experience, okay? When we're talking about an ordained elder, it's somebody with experience. Now, here's the thing. I do believe in being respectful to people that are older. But even how much more at a church being respectful to the elder of the church? They don't just have more experience. They're also the authority. And you should submit to that authority. So I think verse 5 has a dual application. But of course one application is being respectful to the church's leadership. Okay? Go to 1 Timothy 3. 1 Timothy chapter 3. 1 Timothy 3. Now look, sometimes people will call me pastor sometimes and they don't mean anything. Obviously, biblically, that's not accurate. But they're trying to be respectful. I don't correct people or rebuke people if they call me pastor. I don't make it a point to tell, well, that's not right. You shouldn't call me that. Now, if somebody calls me father, which has happened, there have been kids that have come in here and said, Father Matthew. It's like, wait a minute, right? It's like, if people call me pastor, I'm okay with that, you know, because they're trying to be respectful. Obviously, I preach from time to time on this so people will learn and stuff. But if somebody calls me father, it's like, no. It's like, I'm not your father. That's just pushing it too far. You can call me cardinal or bishop or whatever. I'm probably not going to say it, but don't call me father, okay? Don't call me father, right? But anyways, 1 Timothy 3. 1 Timothy 3. 1 Timothy 3, verse 6. It says, Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride, he fall into the condemnation of the devil. See, the Bible says this, that if somebody is going to be ordained, they cannot be a novice. What is a novice? It's a beginner. It's a beginner. It's somebody who's new at something. You pick up a new hobby, no matter what you do, right? I don't play the guitar, so if I started playing tomorrow, I would be a novice. Now, is that insulting? No. It's just the definition of the word. It means you're a beginner. It means you don't have experience. You're a novice. There's nothing wrong with being a novice. We all get saved at a certain point in life, and we all start growing at different rates, and you're part of different churches. There's nothing wrong with being a novice, but there is something wrong with ordaining somebody, the head of a church, that's a novice. You have people being ordained that are 22 years old. They got a Bible college degree, not married, no kids, and it's just like, well, they are a pastor. That's a novice. I mean, if they're saved, they're a novice, because the Bible says you need to have a family to be a pastor because that's the nurture and admonition that you get experience with, and you say, why is this so important? Because here's the thing about this. Nothing prepares you for waking up at 2 in the morning to help out when your child is sick or whatever to having to actually deal with it, right? Once you go through those things, it gives you experience, and here's the thing. It also teaches you patience. Kids do a lot of things that make you mad, right? Now, for you that are parents and your kids are older, you're misremembering when your kids were young because sometimes I talk to my parents, and they'll say, well, when you were a kid, we never spanked you. I'm just thinking, you never spanked me. I still feel the pain. It's like, what? It's like, I got spanked like 20 times a day. You say, why? Well, you know what? I was a very energetic kid. My parents would tell me, you know, no throwing the football in the living room, so then all of a sudden I'm bouncing a basketball. No bouncing a basketball in the living room, so then I'm kicking a soccer ball, right? And so, look, I was an energetic kid, and so I got spanked all the time, right? My student didn't get spanked because all she did was read, you know? That's probably why she's a lot smarter than me, but it's just like, you know, kids, they will test your patience. Well, here's the truth. Running a church, the members will test your patience sometimes, but here's the thing. You won't see me screaming at people at church. Now, I might be screaming on the inside sometimes. I might be mad sometimes, but I don't scream on the outside. You say, why? Because, you know what? You get that experience when you're raising kids that when you're frustrated, yelling's not going to fix the problem. Just because you feel like doing it, it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, and here's the thing. If you saw me yelling at people at church, even if I was right about the situation, I would lose all credibility, right? And so that's why it's good to get experience overseeing things because things do not always go like expected. Right? You have something happen. You expect everything to take place like this, and then all of a sudden problems take place. I mean, anyone who's been a manager at a company or overseen people, you have a project. It doesn't go exactly like you want. It's frustrating, but what does not fix the problem is screaming at people. Now, I'm not saying there's never a time for a boss to scream at someone. You know, there can be from time to time depending on what the situation is. I'm just saying having kids gives you that experience, and the Bible says you cannot be a novice. Now, here's the thing. You might say, Brother Stuckey, I have a desire to be a pastor. That's a good desire, and here's the thing. You might make a great pastor one day, but if you've been saved for six months, you're not ready. It's a good desire. It's a good goal. There's nothing wrong with being a novice, but that's what you are, a novice. You've been new at it. You know, you haven't been saved long enough, right? Now, I still learn. I mean, I'm sure everyone who's a pastor is going to learn every day. I still learn things running the churches. I've been saved since I was 18 years old. I'm 36 years old. Half of my life I've been saved. I've been soul winning for 17 years. I've volunteered a lot of ministries at churches. I worked for Verity Baptist Church for several years. You get experience when you do that. I've had times, you know, at Verity Baptist where people were being rude to me, and it's like, you know what? I have to be patient and calm in front of them, right, because that's what you have to do. So look, experience helps you. Go to 1 Timothy 5, 1 Timothy 5. That's what being an elder basically is. You get experience because, you know what? It's very easy to say, well, I wouldn't make these mistakes, but you know what? You learn through experience. Isn't that how you learn everything? You learn through experience. You mess up something, and then you don't forget how to do it the next time. That's the way it works, right? You know, I always tell people, what's the secret to becoming good at math? Guess and check, right? You guess, you check, and when you mess up, you learn, okay, this was wrong, and then you never forget how to do it. That's the secret. Guess and check is the method that you use, right? 1 Timothy 5, notice what it says in verse 17. Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine. So the Bible says that the elders, and this is the ordained position of an elder, if they rule well, they're worthy of double honor, the Bible says, and especially they who labor in the word and doctrine. So laboring in the word and doctrine would indicate that they preach sermons and you learn new things. You're edified. It helps you spiritually in your life become better at things, okay? And the Bible says they're worthy of double honor. Well, what does it mean to be worthy of double honor? Verse 18, for the Scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn, and the laborer is worthy of his reward. Now, I do not believe that double honor, but you have got to be blind to read 1 Timothy 5 and tell me that there is not a link to money in 1 Timothy 5 verses 17 and 18. And I get it. There's a lot of false Baptist pastors here, but for is the first word in verse 18. That is linking verse 17 with verse 18. For the Scripture saith, what's the double honor? Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn, and the laborer is worthy of his reward. It's referencing finances, right? That's the context. It also does this in Galatians as well. This makes sense, though, because think about it. Let's say you're at a new company and you're a beginner. Your salary is low. As you work for that company and prove yourself, your salary increases. Shouldn't that be the same way if you're a pastor of a church, right? Think about this. You know, Verity Baptist in Sacramento, there's 200 people that come every Sunday. They've started many church plants. Obviously, Pastor Mendez is doing a great job running that church. Should he live dirt poor and barely be able to survive since he's in the ministry? That doesn't make sense. And here's the truth. Many people that are pastors that you listen to and respect, they actually were very successful in their secular jobs. You know why? What's the common denominator? Hard work. That's the common denominator. They were successful because they worked hard. Look, many of the pastors you love, they're computer programmers. And their secular jobs, they get paid good money. They're like, oh, look at this house. He must be a false prophet. He works a full-time job and he's very successful at his company. Of course, he gets paid good money because he's good at his job. And here's the truth. If you fail in the secular world, you're going to fail in the spiritual world as well running a church. That is a fact, right? I mean, if you get fired at every job that you're at because you're showing up late, you're being disrespectful, you're messing everything up, you're not going to do a good job running a church, okay? But here's the thing. You know what? I'm not sitting here saying that the pastor should be a multimillionaire, but they certainly should not be dirt poor. And it seems like there's extremes here. I get it. There's a lot of Baptist pastors that are ripping off their members. But don't go to some other extreme and say, well, my pastor's supposed to lay down his life. We get to treat him like garbage. He gets paid very little money. He's nothing because he's a pastor and that's his job. No, that's not his job and you need to keep reading your Bible because it says they're worthy of double honor. Now, here's the thing. I don't take a paycheck from this. It's not like I'm invested in what I'm saying now. I'm just reading the Bible and this is what it's saying in 1 Timothy 5 verses 17 and 18. And a pastor that rules well, that does a good job, deserves a good salary. He deserves. There's nothing wrong if he's got a nice house and a nice car. Now, of course, that's another problem. That's different. But look, if they're a full-time pastor doing a great job and the church is getting tons of people saved, getting churches started, doesn't it just make sense that they deserve to get paid a decent salary? It's like don't take this extreme where it's like there's these false prophets that make all this money. So our pastor's supposed to be dirt poor and we treat him like garbage. Because it seems like those are the two extremes I see from people. This is the wrong balance, my friend. You need a balance of these things. And you know what? They are worthy. Verse 19, against an elder receive not an accusation but before two or three witnesses. Now, it's interesting because it talks about ruling well and it says the elders that rule well, two verses later, talks about if there's an accusation against an elder, don't receive it unless there's two or three witnesses. It sounds like the elder that rules well is going to get accusations against them. You say why? You say why? Because them that sin rebuke before all that others also may fear. These things are linked together. Look, if you're in a church for ten years and nobody ever accuses your pastor falsely, it's a bad pastor. It's a fact. Because when you call things out, you lay down rules, you lay down the law, sometimes people get mad at you. And you know what the most common way to defend an accusation? No, no, I didn't did it, you did it. Isn't that what kids do? They say, I'm Robert, you're glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks onto you. You say that I'm bad, I say you're bad. That's what they always do. It's a false accusation. The Bible says don't even receive it unless it's before two or three witnesses. What does that mean? It doesn't mean that you determine the accusation to be false. You say you're not even willing to hear it because you don't trust it unless there's multiple witnesses. Now let me also help you out with something just logically speaking. If you're in a court of law and there's a murder case, and the two witnesses are husband and wife, they won't count that. That will count as one witness. Right? I mean, these are unrelated situations of witnesses. And so they look at, well here's DNA evidence, that's one witness. Here's someone who saw it, that's a second witness. Things that are not related to one another. But if two people that are best friends or husband and wife, they say, wow, we're both witnesses. It's like, come on, they're not going to accept that in a court of law. Use some common sense, my friend. Right? And so the Bible says don't even receive accusations unless it's before two or three witnesses. But here's the truth. If your pastor is doing a good job, he will have people accuse him. Look, people accuse Pastor Jimenez of stuff all the time. There's videos on YouTube of people ripping Pastor Jimenez, just accusing him of various things. Just all these wild allegations. And it's just like, why is that? Well, because when you lay down the law, you preach hard, you kick people out of church if they do wrong, you have rules and structure, some people get mad. That's the way it works. If nobody ever accuses your pastor, it's because he's not laying down the law at that church. Because it talks about ruling well in verse 17, it talks about rebuking before all in verse 20, and imagine that, there's accusations against him. I'm shocked, right? Verse 21. I charge thee before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. Basically do not have respecter of persons, the Bible says in verse 21. Verse 22. Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins, keep thyself pure. So the Bible says lay hands suddenly on no man, meaning you do not quickly ordain people as elders or spiritually ordained positions. If you do, you'll be a partaker of their sins when they screw up, the Bible says. So here's the thing. It's great if people have a desire to be ordained for the ministry, but it doesn't come overnight. They need experience, okay? Now, when Sure Foundation Baptist was started, Pastor Aaron Thompson, that church started and he was the one who was running that church, the boots on the ground, but he wasn't ordained as an evangelist. He didn't have authority to do baptisms at the time, but there was definitely a need because there was a problem with all these Baptist churches there and they became the enemies, all of these families, because they're preaching the truth and getting people saved and standing up for salvation. And he started leading that ministry and everything, but at the beginning, they were not 100% positive who was going to get ordained as the pastor. Now, the reason why he got ordained was, well, he's doing a great job, but also because everybody at the church wanted him to be the pastor because they loved him. You say, why? Because him and his family laid down his life for the congregation. Everybody knew that, right? But what I'm saying is this. He wasn't ordained at first because, you know, Pastor Menes, also with Pastor Jared Pozronski, as far as I know, he's never done any baptisms because he just got ordained a week ago, right? And so, look, we might start church plants in the future. It doesn't mean we're going to immediately ordain someone to be the evangelist because they've got to be tested. They've got to be proved, right? And so the Bible says, lay hands suddenly on no man, and if you do, you will be guilty of being a partaker in their sins because you put the stamp of approval or authority on them, the Bible says. Go to Titus 1. Titus 1. Titus 1. Point number one, a shepherd and a pastor are 100% identical. Point two, elder is used interchangeably with shepherd slash pastor, but it is different even though it's used interchangeably because it's still the same position, just different roles. Elders experience, pastor is caring for the sheep. An elder is also used interchangeably with bishop, okay? But, once again, they have different roles. It says in Titus 1, verse 5, So elders, the ordained position we're talking about, if any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. So being blameless does not mean sinless. It means that you don't have some major sin where people can attack you, okay? Four, a bishop must be blameless. Now, what was the context? Well, weren't we talking about elders? Now we're talking about bishops. You say, why? Same position, but there's different roles. There's a reason why he's using different words, but it's showing you it's the same position, okay? Go to 1 Timothy 3. 1 Timothy chapter 3. 1 Timothy 3. So what does a bishop do? What's the role? It's to provide oversight. It's to rule. It's to have authority, okay? It's kind of like this. Think about the example of sheep. Here's what a bishop does. A bishop says, hey, here's the line. The sheep are not allowed to cross this line. That's the rule. And if the sheep do cross the line, they get in trouble. But here's the rule of being a pastor. Once the sheep don't listen and cross the line and then the wolf comes, then they put their own neck on the line because they're being a good shepherd, right? They're being a good pastor. So the bishop is putting down the rules, but the pastor's actually taking care in case there's any problems that take place, okay? 1 Timothy 3 verse 1. This is a true saying. If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then... And let me say this. When it says desireth a good work, that does not mean you desire to have authority over people and rule, okay? That's not what it's saying. It's saying you desire a good work in terms of the entire position. You're willing to lay down your life. You're willing to do rules if necessary, but you desire to do a big work for God and say, you know what, I'm going to be not self-willed. I'm going to be hospitable. I'm going to care about them more than myself. It's not saying you desire to rule over people because that's pretty much Hillary Clinton. That's pretty much a reprobate, right? Verse 2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober of good behavior, given a hospitality, apt to teach, not given a wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous. Notice this. One that ruleth well his own house. Here's the thing. It talks about bishop and it only uses this term bishop. Then it says ruling your house well because that's what a bishop does. It provides authority. For if a man know not, and it says having his children in subjection with all gravity, for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? So what the Bible's saying is this. If there's someone whose son is slapping him in public and he's not doing anything and not disciplining, well, he's not going to do anything if it happens at church. If people are causing problems at church, he's not going to do anything, right? Look, if your kids get out of line, you have to deal with it. That's the way it works. And let me help correct an incorrect sermon from a month and a half ago. You deal with it when it happens. Well, I would never spank at church. Well, you're not going to do a good job as a father, my friend, because kids aren't going to remember five hours later why they got that spanking when they're two years old. You do it privately, but what you do not do is say, well, I would never spank at church and anyone who does that is wrong. Look, I was very long suffering with those people. Preaching things you know I disagree with in this church and Pastor Jimenez disagrees with as well. And it's stupid. If your kids act up, they need to be spanked when they do it. Of course, I go to the back room with my son, but you know what? Everybody knows I spank my kids when they act up. And preaching the opposite of what our church teaches and stands for and what pastors... That's called being disrespectful, especially when you're preaching a sermon. And that's wrong. It's not biblical, right? You need swift act... Because, look, kids don't remember seven hours later A two-year-old's not going to remember seven hours later. Well, you're getting a spanking because seven hours ago you didn't give the candy to your sister. They're not going to remember that, right? And so the Bible says you rule your own house having your children in subjection with all gravity for if a man know not how to rule his own house how shall he take care of the church of God? Look, if you can't rule your own house, you're not going to be able to take care of the church of God when there's problems. People are going to walk over you, step on you, and you're going to let anything happen because you don't have any guts to deal with what needs to be dealt with. Right? Turn in your Bible to 1 Peter 2. 1 Peter 2. 1 Peter 2. The Bible says let all things be done decently and in order. That's in 1 Corinthians. If you don't have any rules there's going to be no order. There's going to be no structure. It's going to be a free-for-all. That's the way it's going to take place. If you don't have any rules whatsoever it's going to be a madhouse. It's going to be a circus. It's going to be like the church of Corinth. Who would say here today I would love to leave this church to go to the church of Corinth where people are sleeping with their father's wife in the church? And people are taking communion and they've got like five different groups. Group 1 takes their communion. It's like, it's a circus. It's a madhouse. You say, why? All the rules are being laid down. Right? It says in 1 Peter 2, so point number 1 shepherd and pastor are synonymous 100%. Elder is used interchangeably with pastor or shepherd. Elder is used interchangeably with bishop. And bishop is used interchangeably with shepherd. They have different roles but they're used interchangeably. 1 Peter 2 verse 25 For ye were a sheep going astray but are now returned unto the shepherd and bishop of your souls. Shepherd and bishop. Okay. They are used interchangeably but they're also different because as we saw a shepherd takes care of the sheep. A bishop lays down rules and authority and structure. The oversight thereof the Bible says ruling his house well. Now go back to 1 Timothy 3. We'll close up. 1 Timothy chapter 3. Let's just quickly look through these first seven verses. 1 Timothy 3 verses 1 through 7. And as I said, it's just interesting to me. People are never upset when you act like a pastor to the members. But they're upset when you act like a bishop. But realize that all of these roles are important. There's a reason why God uses different terms. All of them matter. And look, you know what? Being a pastor, the Church of Corinth, it's operated under Paul the Apostle when you study it out. But I'm saying, if someone's a pastor of a church and he actually cares about his members but he's not willing to do anything, it's going to screw up the church. Think about having kids and you never tell them no. You just give them whatever they want. And you say, wow, they want candy? I'll give them candy. They want to stay up until midnight. You want ice cream for breakfast? Here you go. Right? What's going to happen to those kids? Same thing in a church. If there are no rules, it will allow all kinds of problems to come in the church. That's what's going to happen. 1 Timothy 3, verse 1. 1 Timothy 3, verse 1. This is a true saying. If a man desires the office of a bishop, he desires the good work. A good work because it's hard. It's not easy. It's difficult. It takes time. It takes effort if you're going to rule well. And one of the things is this. When you're running a church, you can always do more. You can always do more. You can always do more soul winning. You can always study a little bit more. You can always memorize more. It's a job that is never done. Never done. Now I've had jobs before where you get off work and you're done. You don't have to worry about getting a phone call or whatever. But I've also had jobs where you're basically on the call 24-7. If something goes wrong with a project, you're driving out there to get on that computer and figure out what went wrong. That's always kind of frustrating when you always have something hanging over your head and you never know what's going to happen. I remember a friend of mine in my old church I went to in West Virginia. He was always on call for work. So every once in a while, you'd be looking over to say something at church and he's gone because he got a call and he's just out the door. But the Bible says you desire a good work. So if you want to be a pastor one day, it shouldn't be because you want to become internet famous. It shouldn't be because you want to rule over people and just tell them what to do. It should be because you want to do a good work. You're willing to put in the time and effort. Verse 2. A bishop then must be blameless. Does not mean sinless. Just means above reproach. A bishop then must be blameless. The husband of one wife. You have to be a man married to a woman. Vigilant. Vigilant is basically you're paying attention for potential problems that take place. Here's the truth. The Bible says you should know the state of your flocks and if you are being vigilant, you're going to notice potential problems before other people. It's kind of a frustrating thing when I see problems and potential problems and I know nobody else sees them because I'll look like the bad guy or I'll look like the jerk, but I see them because I have to pay attention. If you're the shepherd, you've got to pay attention and you're seeing certain things, you're trying to connect clues because it's a puzzle and it's like I think I got the pieces, but it's just trying to get them all put together and it's like you see the things ahead of time and other people probably don't see it. But that's called being vigilant. You have to be paying attention and watching for things. Why? Because your goal should be to take care of the sheep and you're afraid of somebody taking advantage of one of your members. That's called being vigilant. It says sober of good behavior given to hospitality, apt to teach. Apt to teach is having the ability to teach. One thing at our church is we have a rotating schedule on Wednesdays now with our preaching. I think it's good because if somebody wants to be a pastor, having experienced teaching will make you better at teaching. When you get practice at something, it makes you better. It says not given a wine, no striker, not greedy, a filthy lucre, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous. Now verse three is very interesting. You need to pay attention here. In verse three, there are six things mentioned. Not given a wine, no striker, not greedy, a filthy lucre, but patient, not a brawler, not covetous. Three of these are before the semicolon and three of them are after that first semicolon. And these things line up. The third thing, the last thing before the first semicolon is not greedy, a filthy lucre. What's the last thing before the last semicolon? Not covetous. Doesn't covetous and being greedy, a filthy lucre, aren't those pretty much the same thing, restating the same thing? What about the second thing? No striker, not a brawler. Doesn't that just line up perfectly? What about the first thing? Not given a wine, but patient. Now here's the thing. Those other two things line up. The other one does not appear to line up, but I believe it does line up because the Bible's trying to teach us something here. You say, why do these things line up? Not given a wine, but patient. Well, in the Bible, wine can mean a few different things. It can refer to alcoholic wine. It can refer to grape juice or any type of juice. But it can also refer to luxurious, inexpensive things. Wine and oil are often mentioned together because they're very expensive. Well, here's the thing. I believe when it's saying wine here, I don't believe it's referring to drinking alcohol personally. I think it's saying you're not given to fancy, expensive things. And that does line up with patient because think about this. A lot of people that are 20 years old, they expect to make the same salary as somebody who's been working at the job for 25 years, have the same house with five bedrooms, in a nice car or whatever. It's like you just graduated college. You gotta be patient to have the nice things in life. And isn't that true? It's like when I was growing up, we did not have a big house. I was very happy as a kid. My parents loved me, but we did not have fancy things. My parents have a very nice house. But that's also because my dad worked hard at his company and was successful for 35 years. You get increases, you get bonuses, you save up money, and it's like then eventually you can have the nice things. Well, one of the things about being a pastor is don't expect the nice things from day one. You gotta be patient. And that's true with the church because when a church first starts, you're not gonna be running 500 people after two years. It takes time. Pastor Minna's worked for like four years before he was full-time or five years at Verity Baptist and the church slowly grew and you had a bigger church. And look, any new church, you're not gonna have the nicest things from day one. Look, we do have a lot of nice things at this church. I mean, you take these things for granted, but having the air conditioning units, we have dartboard games that we play and stuff, fellowship activities, we pay for so many events. I think we have a lot of nice things here. But the truth is maybe in 10 years we'll have our own church building that we build. We're gonna be able to have lots of nice things. But you know what? We're not at that point right now. You know, Verity Baptist Church has a lot of nice things in Sacramento. They have the big, you know, ping-pong competition. They have a whole room this big just for that competition. We don't have that yet. You say, why? You gotta be patient. Right? This church hasn't been around as long. And you know what? To be in the ministry you need to be patient because it's trial and error for the first, I don't know, at least two and a half years, three years. It's like you make mistakes, you learn, you get better. And you know what? What I don't understand is when people try to bring up mistakes from two years ago, like, well, two years ago he did this. It's like, yeah, people make mistakes. It's called having experience. It's called everybody makes mistakes. It's like, do you do that with your father? Well, four years ago you said this. It's like, man, everybody makes mistakes. Bosses make mistakes. People make mistakes. And if you're trying to dig up stuff according to the Bible, what does that make you in Proverbs? An evil person. Isn't that what the Bible says? That doesn't make me look bad. That makes you look bad if you're trying to dig up mistakes that were made. And it's not like you're digging up a mistake like, well, here was adultery. It's like you're just trying to dig up mistakes made in running a church. It's like, what's your point of doing that? Right? What is the purpose of that? There is no purpose. People make mistakes, but here's the thing. When it talks about patience, you know what? You need to be patient because as a church, you know what? It's gonna take time to have all those nice things. That's the way it goes. It's the same thing with having kids as well. When you have kids, especially those first couple years, those kids don't help you very much. Right? It's not like they're the ones that are vacuuming the living room and they're the ones cooking dinner. You know what? My son doesn't cook dinner. Now, he comes over to help. He's like, all right, Daddy, we're gonna crack eggs. Right? And we turn off the lights in our church in Pampanga. I pick him up and he turns off the lights. I'm glad to get him involved with stuff. But in all actuality, it's not like he's helping that much around the house. Because he's too young. But you gotta be patient because as they get older, you know what? It's gonna be more helpful. It's just the way it works. Verse 4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity. For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride, he fall into the condemnation of the devil. The Bible says if you are a novice, one big fear is you'll get lifted up with pride. That's a big danger. And you know what? It should not be that hard for us to see that. Because when you see people that are just into this movement, they're really excited for the first couple years, but you can sometimes see that pride just coming out of them. Right? It's like they have this knowledge, but knowledge puffeth up, the Bible says. And see, the Bible says experience is very important. And look, I was very guilty of that as well in the past. I think all of us, if we're honest, we've been guilty of that. And there's nothing wrong with that. And you know what? People that are really zealous like that, I don't try to destroy their zeal, because that would be a mistake. Sometimes I try to redirect that zeal in the right way, but it's like, realize, you know what? Somebody's excited. I don't want to kill their zeal. Because what I see is the same people that are going out doing lots of soul winning sometimes go a little bit overboard in other areas. Well, I don't want them to stop soul winning. Right? So sometimes you just got to redirect that zeal in the right way. Well, that's part of being a local church. You learn these things. Right? But you could see how if somebody got ordained and they're really excited but they don't have experience how they would get lifted up with pride. It's like, man, my sermon on YouTube got 400 views. I'm going to try to get 500 next time. Well, the Bible says you're supposed to edify the local church that you're at. Right? I mean, it said in one of those verses, feeding the flock which is among you. I love all of our online listeners, but I'm feeding the flock among us. Right? That's what the Bible says. Okay? Verse 7. Moreover, he must have a good report of them which are without lest he fall into reproach in the snare of the devil. So we'll end on verse 7, but notice this. You have to have a good report of them that are without. What does that mean? Them that are without the church. Meaning if I went to your company and asked your coworkers about you and they all said you're an obnoxious jerk, you're not qualified for the ministry. You should have a good report, the Bible says. Right? Now, look, we understand that sometimes people lie about you for the things you believe and everything. For example, from an old company I worked at where all of a sudden I got called down to the office and I didn't know what it was for and I got called down and the boss of the company told me, he's like, well, we found out about your beliefs. And I'm like, well, what do you mean by that? Because I never talked about my beliefs at work. And it's like, well, we found out that you hate homos and you're sexist. And I'm like, right? Well, you got half of that's right. Right? But all of a sudden I got called down and everything and then they were asking me about it and I said, you know, because I preached sermons years ago or whatever and I didn't even have it on my YouTube channel or whatever. They saw that and they said, oh, and I just said, and this is what they told me, though. They said we didn't know how to deal with it, but they said we talked to all your coworkers just and everybody loves you and everybody says you're a good worker. I'm like, so why are you calling me down here? I mean, because they said, you know, we just wanted to talk to you about this. I said, well, and they were like, are we okay? And I said, well, I don't know. I was like, are you going to fire me in a couple months? I was like, you called me down here and said, hey, you know, we found out these things about you. And I told them, I said, hey, I read my Bible at lunch every work. I never even talked to people about my beliefs. I said, I go to a church that's an old-fashioned church. I said, but I don't talk to anybody about my beliefs. But here's the thing, if I had a bad report of my coworkers, I would have lost my job. But, you know, I had a good report because I showed up early. I stayed late. I didn't go on breaks. I was very respectful and kind to everybody at work. And you know what? When you do that, you have a good report. Here's the thing, though. If you have a bad report at your company, and I'm not saying some false prophet hates you at your company or some homo hates you at your company or whatever, but I'm saying if everybody hates you at your job, you're not qualified for the ministry because you've got character problems you've got to work on. And sometimes people try to act like this. Well, everybody in my family hates me because, you know, they're Catholic and they just hate Baptists. It's funny because most of my wife's family is Catholic and they love me. And they know that I disagree with them. And I've tried to preach the gospel, and I've preached before, you know, in groups, and then a bunch of them just happen to have to walk into the house at that time and leave as I'm trying to preach the gospel. But they love me. You say, why? Because I'm respectful. Because I do mono to them. I'm respectful. I'm courteous. Right? And here's the thing, that's one of the requirements, is to have a good report outside of the church. And let me just say this, if we ever ordained someone for the ministry one day, and you personally are like, man, there's all this bad stuff about this person, you know what, honestly, you should come to me privately and tell me about that. Because there have been other churches where it's just like someone might have been sent out to be a pastor, and there's a lot of people at the church that did not like the pastor. Because here's the thing, people might act differently around me than they act around you. Sometimes it shocks me. It's like the things I hear people have said about me, I'm just like, man, that person was always respectful to me. They're always very polite to me. It's like I had no idea that they didn't like me. It's like I was always nice to them. It's like they were one of my favorite people. And then behind my back, they're saying all these terrible things. Why? I had absolutely no idea. Right? And see, here's the thing, that is the truth that if you're running a church, you might not know what people are like because they're going to be on their best behavior around you. It could just be an act. And look, I'm not above being fooled. I can make a million videos on traits of psychopaths on our YouTube, but it doesn't mean that I'm always going to spot it myself. It doesn't mean I'm an expert at this. Somebody commented on one of the videos that's like, you're not an expert at spotting psychopaths. I'm like, well, I agree with you. I don't claim to be an expert. Studying this actually helps me get better at it, but I'm not an expert. Right? And so, look, somebody has to have a good report. And if they have a bad report inside of our church, how much more outside of our church probably? Right? That is one of the requirements. So, in summary, pastor slash shepherd, those things are identical in the Bible. In our modern day, pastor is used for the position where a shepherd's used with taking care of the sheep, like a job. But they're used interchangeably in the Bible, and there is no distinction. It's about feeding the sheep, taking care of them. A bishop is the one laying down rules and authority and structure. So basically, the pastor and the shepherd So basically, the pastor is the nurture aspect of being a father. The bishop is the admonition aspect. And then the elder is speaking towards experience. And when it comes to experience, you have to have at least some experience before you get ordained. Obviously, the Bible's not specific on how many years you have to be saved. But you have to have experience involved in ministries, running ministries, being saved, having the ability to preach. You get practice and things like that. But obviously, as more time goes by, you get more experience. I can say I feel more prepared now running churches than I did two years ago. You say, why? Because you learn lessons in life. Isn't that the same with being a father? For people that are fathers out there, don't you learn lessons, you make mistakes, and you learn from them, and it's like, man, I messed up. I'm going to do better next time. You learn. That's the way you learn in life. It's through experience. But here's the thing. All three of those aspects are important. And if anyone was left out, there would be a problem. As I said, it's like the Trinity. There would be a problem if there was just God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. You're missing a requirement for the Godhead. When it comes to this role, you need all of those aspects. This position, you need all three of those different roles. All of them are important. Let's close in a word of prayer. Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for allowing us to be here today. And ask you to help us to apply this to our lives. Help us to understand deep things in the Bible and study things out and to know what the Bible says and to understand why you say certain things.