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And I listened to an eight and a half hour lecture by a guy named Thomas F. Madden called Heaven or Heresy and it was all about the inquisition. And I thought that this was just going to be a neutral scholarly treatment of the inquisition because this guy is just from some secular university somewhere. But it became very clear that this guy is just a hardcore Roman Catholic apologist just trying to be disguised as a scholar that's going to explain it. And by the end of the thing, the guy is just falling all over himself to just explain why everything about the inquisition is totally justified and people are blowing it out of proportion. I mean literally in eight and a half hours of listening to this guy, it was as if the Roman Catholic Church had done no wrong. He wouldn't admit anything that they did wrong. It's all justified to him and he tried to downplay everything that was done and it truly made me sick to listen to this man justifying torture and murder. And here's what he would keep saying over and over again. He would say, well, you know, the only people that they're putting to death are only the most stubborn heretics where even after the truth was explained to them, they just persisted in their heresy. I mean even after somebody explained to them why they were wrong. And the church was really patient to sit there and try to explain to these people why they were wrong and only just these really stubborn, they just wouldn't change. But here's the thing about that. The things that they would often have to do to be delivered from being executed to prove that they're not a heretic or to prove that they're repenting of being a heretic was that they would have to pray to saints. And Bible-believing Christians often had the fortitude to refuse to pray to saints because praying to saints is pagan and wicked and necromancy. Often they would have to declare that the wafer that the priest holds up was actually transformed into Jesus' body and if they were not willing to declare that, then they're a heretic, they're unrepentant, they're going to be burned at the stake. They had to state that the church of Rome was infallible. They had to state that the pope was infallible. Often they'd be required to give money to get souls out of purgatory and state that they believed in purgatory. None of these are things that we believe in. So all of us would have been heretics. Now this lecturer, Thomas F. Madden, this devil, and all I can say about this guy after studying the Inquisition and then listening to this guy's lecture is that the guy is an evil, sick person. This is what he says, torture was something that they would use to get at the truth. In our modern time we have these views about personal rights and respecting people's rights and everything, but back then they were more interested in the truth. They would actually think we were really unjust the way we're constantly just letting guilty people go free. They wanted to get at the truth and so torture was a way to get at the truth. And he tries to downplay the torture and say, oh, they would only torture people just for a very short time, usually it was like five minutes, he says, so like five minutes that they'd be tortured, maybe fifteen, but it wasn't some big long drawn out thing. And he says it just so calmly and yeah it wasn't a big deal and he said, you know, often they found that it was a lot more effective not necessarily to torture the person who was actually being accused but to actually torture the person's friends and the people that knew them because he said, sometimes if you're torturing the person who did it or is accused of doing it, if they confess to some of this stuff they would end up being executed if they were a relapsed heretic, for example, or involved in serious heresy. So there wasn't really a big motivation for them to confess because if they confessed they were going to die in many cases. Now of course many people if they confess they get off with a lighter punishment. So in cases like that they would torture people who weren't even accused of anything just for not testifying against that person. So they'll get your friend or your relative and torture them, you know, just to get at the truth though. And the Catholics, they love to go on and on about how this was only to get information that wasn't otherwise available. Would they do this kind of torture? And it was just, you know, and they said it was never used as a punishment. Oh, phew, scared me there for a second. It was only to get information out of people. Oh, thank heavens. And he tries to downplay it and in eight and a half hours this Catholic devil who justifies torture and murder, he only lists, in eight and a half hours of talking about the Inquisition, he only lists one torture method and he tries to downplay it and make it sound like it's not a big deal. But here's what he describes as, he said this was the usual torture method and he tries to downplay it and make it sound like it's not that bad. He said basically, you know, they just put a rope on the person's wrist and put it behind their back like this and suspend them from the ceiling, you know, where they're basically hanging like this and it's pulling their arms behind their back and, you know, they do that for five minutes and, you know. And he downplays it like it's not a big deal. But here's what he doesn't tell you and, you know, plug your kid's ears if you don't want them to hear this. Here's the part he doesn't tell you. What he doesn't tell you is that when they would do that to the person, it would rip the arms out of the shoulder joints completely out of socket and blood would come out of the person's mouth. That's the part that they don't tell you in their little Catholic lecture. And what they don't tell you is that after someone went through that torture, that person would be crippled and diseased for the rest of their life. That's what they conveniently leave out in the Modern Scholar Lecture Series, Heaven or Heresy by Thomas F. Madden, the scholar. He's not a scholar. He's a Roman Catholic devil-worshipping idolater who thinks torture and murder are fine. That's what he is. You think that's fine to do that to somebody? Somebody who's not even condemned of anything? Someone who hasn't even been found guilty? Someone who's just maybe not even just willing to testify against someone else? They would do this to them and this is what they'll do. They'll do it one time and this is just one method and that's probably the mildest method I can mention from the pulpit without horrifying children. They'll do it one time and then, according to Roman law, even before the Catholic Church existed and this continued into the Roman Catholic Church, any confession that's made under torture or any testimony that's made under torture, they have to make again when they're not being tortured. And here's why. Because when people are being tortured, they'll pretty much say anything. That's why it doesn't get to the truth. Torture brings out lies because people will say anything to make it stop. They don't even care what they're saying. So after the torture's over, then they would say, okay, now we need you to say that again now that you're not being tortured. And if the person would say, well, you know what, I lied. I just said that because you were torturing me and I wanted you to stop. Well, during these torture sessions, they always had a physician there. So the physician would put their bones back in joint, get all the bones back in their sockets, get everything put together, make sure the person's not going to die, and then they'll do it a second time and get the person to say it again. And then if the person after the second time through says, hey, I lied again. You guys were torturing me. I didn't really mean that. Usually they would only do it two or three times because they're so lenient. And then the person walks away crippled and maimed and diseased for the rest of their life because their bones have been ripped out of their sockets and so forth. I mean, this is what they fail to tell you. They make it sound like, oh, you just go through five minutes of the worst pain and then it's over. Then it's behind you. Well, first of all, going through these types of intense pain, even for 15 minutes, does brain damage that is irreparable. You know, you hear about people even getting PTSD just from being in scary situations or going through pain and things. But going through that kind of pain for an extended period of time does brain damage. Your body just can't handle it. You go into shock. But not only that, these people were often physically maimed and physically had wounds and infections and were just deformed and crippled after this thing for the rest of their life. But see, that doesn't go in the statistic of how many people they killed. See, you see these numbers and you say, well, it was only like a million people that you murdered. They only murdered like one or two million people during the dark ages. That's all. Or they'll try to downplay it as only a few hundred thousand people. Yeah, except that 98% of the people aren't in that figure because they didn't kill them. They just tortured, maimed them or even if the people didn't get tortured and maimed, you know what they did to them? They forced them to accept the Catholic Church and Catholic doctrine. So how many souls did they damn by forcing people to be Catholic and telling them, hey, you can't even listen to the Gospel. You can't even listen to heretics. And by the way, a heretic is somebody who believes salvation is by faith alone. Now, true, a heretic could be other things that are heresy like, you know, people who deny the deity of Christ or there was a guy who was brought before the Inquisition in Santa Fe, New Mexico for performing a wedding ceremony between two dogs, okay? So yeah, there's some weirdos for sure. But the point is though, Bible-believing Christians are in that category of being a heretic so-called by the Roman Catholic Church.