WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.760 Hey everyone, my name is Luke Vincent. I have been a member of Verity Baptist Church since 00:04.760 --> 00:12.280 December 2016. I actually came to Verity in December 2016 and moved within a few weeks 00:12.280 --> 00:21.600 in January 2017 to Verity Baptist Church. And that is where I met Pastor Pzarnski, Pastor 00:21.600 --> 00:27.800 Stuckey, Pastor Jimenez at the time. And later on I got married that year, you know, and 00:27.800 --> 00:32.720 I've been there ever since. I've been married there, had my kids there, so on and so forth. 00:32.720 --> 00:41.760 And I love Verity, I do. And Verity has been a great church for me. Rosarum has been a great 00:41.760 --> 00:47.040 impact on me over the years. So really quick before I jump ahead of myself, I want to say 00:47.040 --> 00:52.960 the main purpose of this video, there's two big reasons. The main purpose is to explain to the 00:53.520 --> 01:06.000 Verity family why I left Verity and what and why I think the Verity family should know that they 01:06.000 --> 01:13.960 don't know yet. Or maybe they have heard at this point from Shaw and Eva's testimony, but I want 01:13.960 --> 01:20.520 to give some of the things that I found out and how I confirmed what Shaw and Eva had already 01:20.520 --> 01:32.600 known. First of all, let me say that I care about Roger Jimenez and his family. And, you know, 01:32.600 --> 01:39.640 they have done so much for my wife and I and my family over the years. Like I said before, 01:39.640 --> 01:46.040 I got married there, had my children there, buried a child there, grew in the Lord there at Verity. 01:46.040 --> 01:55.120 And I'm very much so grateful for all that Roger Jimenez has done for my family and the church has 01:55.120 --> 02:04.560 done for my family. It's made a huge impact on my life. Pastor Buzarnsky also, over the years, 02:04.560 --> 02:12.560 I've known him. He actually was, you know, he donated towards the GoFundMe that somebody set 02:12.560 --> 02:20.040 up for when my son Tide has passed away in 2019. And Pastor Buzarnsky has been good to me over 02:20.040 --> 02:30.920 the years as well. In this video, I want to warn Roger Jimenez because I care about him, 02:30.920 --> 02:39.840 because I care about his family. Ezekiel 3 verse 20 through 21 says, 02:39.840 --> 02:45.320 Again when a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness and commit iniquity, 02:45.320 --> 02:54.560 I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because thou hast not given him warning, 02:54.560 --> 03:01.200 he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he have done shall not be remembered, 03:01.200 --> 03:07.600 but his blood will I require at thine hand. Verse 21, 03:07.600 --> 03:17.440 Nevertheless, if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, 03:17.440 --> 03:28.480 he shall surely live, because he is warned. Also thou hast delivered thy soul. I feel like I owe 03:28.480 --> 03:32.920 it to Roger to warn him. And I care about Verity and I want to warn them as well. 03:32.920 --> 03:42.080 Proverbs 24 verse 10 through 12 says, If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is 03:42.080 --> 03:49.440 small. Verse 11, If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are 03:49.440 --> 03:58.120 ready to be slain. Verse 12, If thou sayest, Behold we knew it not, doth not he that pondereth the 03:58.120 --> 04:10.400 heart, consider it. And I take this verse to mean that if I know Verity is a sinking ship and I know 04:10.400 --> 04:13.920 that people should not be going there anymore, don't you think that I should be warning people? 04:13.920 --> 04:22.840 Absolutely. I absolutely should. This is a biblical principle. There's a verse that's being thrown 04:22.840 --> 04:30.240 around in Verity to be used against me and against Brother Shaw and Ava and other people who are 04:30.240 --> 04:35.680 talking about things that we have found out and confirmed. And they're using this verse to say 04:35.680 --> 04:40.560 that we're wrong, that we're sinning against God, we're trying to cause division, that we don't care 04:40.560 --> 04:46.600 about the people of Verity, that we want to just burn it all down. Those are not true statements. 04:46.600 --> 04:50.400 You know, we don't want to burn down Verity. We care about the people of Verity. This verse is 04:50.400 --> 04:57.360 Proverbs 11 13. It says, A tale bearer revealeth secrets, but he that is of a faithful spirit 04:57.360 --> 05:04.360 concealeth the matter. Now let me just really quickly say this. This verse is not saying that 05:04.360 --> 05:13.200 all secrets should be kept a secret and not revealed. It's obviously referring to like 05:13.200 --> 05:23.280 gossip or slander or just things of that nature. I want you to consider a lot of other verses really 05:23.280 --> 05:31.120 quick, please. I'm gonna give a bunch of verses as to why I feel that God is on my side and on 05:31.120 --> 05:38.920 Brother Shaw and Ava's side in talking about these things and expose it again. Leviticus 5 verse 1 05:38.920 --> 05:45.960 says, And if a soul sin and hear the voice of swearing and is a witness whether he hath seen it 05:45.960 --> 05:53.600 or sorry whether he hath seen or known of it, if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity. 05:53.600 --> 06:01.760 Verse Timothy 5 really quick, you know that verse was saying, you know, if you witness something and 06:01.760 --> 06:07.080 you know whether it was seen or you know, you know, you're a witness in some sort of situation 06:07.080 --> 06:13.000 and you didn't and you didn't come forward, you know, that sin, that iniquity you'll bear. 06:13.000 --> 06:21.840 Verse Timothy 5 19 through 20, against an elder receive not an accusation but before two or three 06:21.840 --> 06:29.160 witnesses. Notice this, in the same context as accusations against elders, it says, 06:29.160 --> 06:40.920 This is in the same paragraph, against an elder receive not an accusation but before two or three 06:40.920 --> 06:53.720 witnesses. This is why I believe, and I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit, that the sin that 06:54.280 --> 07:01.560 Roger and Menace had committed needs to be rebuked before all and when I say sin singular, I should be saying sins 07:01.560 --> 07:09.680 because not only is it a moral sin now, it's also theft. This needs to be rebuked before all. 07:09.680 --> 07:17.480 Don't want to get ahead of myself. Matthew 18 talks about telling it out of the church, you know, 07:17.480 --> 07:20.520 when somebody's unrepentant and there's a case that needs to be resolved. 07:20.520 --> 07:33.720 Proverbs 28 13 says, He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, but who so confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. 07:33.720 --> 07:46.840 Proverbs 27 5 through 6 says, Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend. 07:47.160 --> 07:59.160 And you know, I may be openly rebuking Roger in this video, but I'm doing it out of love because faithful are the wounds of a friend. 07:59.160 --> 08:07.720 Ephesians 4 25 says, Wherefore putting away lying speak every man truth with his neighbor. 08:07.720 --> 08:15.480 And those are great verses why I believe that God is on my side and on Sean Ava's side for not only talking about these things 08:15.480 --> 08:19.800 that I'm about to talk about, but also leaving Verity. 08:23.640 --> 08:26.920 There I'm going to outline this the rest of the video this way. 08:26.920 --> 08:32.640 First, I'm going to talk about the transition from January until Verity before I knew what was going on behind closed doors. 08:32.640 --> 08:40.680 Secondly, I want to go back in the same timeline with everything that I found out from Shaw and that was going on behind closed doors 08:40.680 --> 08:43.000 that I later confirmed to be true. 08:43.000 --> 08:53.800 And I'm going to explain how I confirmed it all to be true and then why I left Verity and the moment that I decided that myself and my wife were leaving. 08:53.800 --> 09:03.240 And getting, I guess I might be getting ahead of myself when I say this, but there's a lie in Verity right now that my wife decided to leave. 09:03.240 --> 09:09.960 And I'm just tell you right now, I, we would have been there Sunday afternoon. We would have been there Sunday for church. 09:09.960 --> 09:14.600 We would have been there at church tonight, Wednesday, March the 18th. 09:15.880 --> 09:22.200 That was the plan. But on Saturday after soul winning, I called my wife and I said, we're leaving Verity. 09:24.800 --> 09:26.040 I don't want to say too much there, but. 09:28.160 --> 09:33.480 Getting OK, let's go back to the transition from January until now. 09:34.480 --> 09:41.320 Before I knew what was going on behind closed doors, so let's go back to January 2nd on January 2nd of 2026. 09:42.440 --> 09:44.320 January 2nd, 2026. 09:46.800 --> 09:50.160 My wife and I had Roger and his wife over for dinner. 09:50.920 --> 09:57.680 And at the time, you know, I felt like he was very uncomfortable, didn't seem very talkative, wasn't really sure why looking back. 09:57.680 --> 10:00.240 I know why this was on January 2nd. 10:00.880 --> 10:07.200 Later on January 15th, we received a text from the church that said this message is for the men of the church. 10:07.200 --> 10:11.520 Pastor Mendes is calling an urgent and confidential meeting tonight, Thursday, January 15th. 10:13.400 --> 10:17.840 At 7 PM. This is a serious matter and your presence is strongly requested. 10:19.360 --> 10:25.880 Sorry, excuse me. No children or anyone under 18 is allowed. We apologize for the short notice. 10:26.880 --> 10:30.960 Roger at that resignation, you know, during that meeting had read his resignation. 10:31.800 --> 10:36.640 That was the same as the pretty much the same as the Facebook post that he posted a couple of days later on the Verity page. 10:37.320 --> 10:43.160 Oliver and Graham both got up and said some things that they were thankful for, that Roger had done over the years. 10:43.160 --> 10:48.560 Graham mentioned that he begged Roger to not step down and he said. 10:49.240 --> 10:55.280 He said he didn't think that he needed to step down and both Oliver and Graham made it clear that they were saying 10:55.360 --> 11:02.520 that this was entirely Roger's decision and he was in no way forced or pressured to step down. 11:04.200 --> 11:08.480 After that meeting, I didn't have this in my notes. Everyone had an opportunity to say something. 11:10.160 --> 11:20.320 Before. Roger Mendes left and I told him one of the things I asked him was if we could keep in touch and that'll be important later. 11:20.320 --> 11:25.200 All the Verity was in shock and sad at this time. 11:27.120 --> 11:30.720 I personally, I have not cried as much as I did. 11:31.800 --> 11:34.160 That day and when I got in my car after. 11:35.400 --> 11:36.720 After that resignation. 11:38.320 --> 11:41.280 In many, many years, probably since my son passed away in 2019. 11:43.000 --> 11:49.160 So I only say that to say that, you know, I care very much about Roger Mendes and about Verity. 11:50.400 --> 11:51.800 Anyone who says otherwise. 11:52.920 --> 11:55.360 You're delusional. I'm sorry you are delusional. 12:02.120 --> 12:06.440 During that time, you know, there was mixed feelings about whether or not this moral sin should be revealed. 12:07.360 --> 12:10.440 Some thought it should be revealed. Some thought it should not be revealed. 12:11.080 --> 12:16.720 Some thought it should be revealed on the Internet. Some thought it should only be revealed to the men of Verity. 12:16.720 --> 12:20.400 On Saturday, January 17th, Oliver Gonzalez requested to go soning with myself. 12:21.040 --> 12:35.200 We went soning and during our conversation, we talked about the resignation and Oliver continued to convey that Roger entirely on his own stepped down and no one at church should expect him to reveal the sin he had been committing or committed that caused him to step down. 12:35.520 --> 12:37.760 At this time, I agreed with him. 12:38.640 --> 12:42.800 Also during the conversation, I gave him the names of three pastors that I thought might be 12:43.520 --> 12:48.880 good to seek counsel from or maybe be a candidate for the position. 12:49.600 --> 12:57.200 The first person on that list that I gave him was Pastor Matthew Stuckey. 12:57.840 --> 13:08.080 And I also mentioned to Deacon Oliver during this conversation that, sorry, there's like this guy just blowing the leaves during the video right by my window. 13:13.760 --> 13:15.200 I'm getting distracted, sorry. 13:17.520 --> 13:25.920 During this time, I mentioned to Deacon Oliver, I had a conversation with Roger Jimenez in 2023 during the escrow time for the building. 13:26.960 --> 13:31.840 And I was, you know, I talked to him quite a bit during that time. 13:32.560 --> 13:39.360 And during the negotiations during escrow, and I had specifically asked him, I said, 13:39.760 --> 13:43.040 in the case that you were to die, you know, what was your plan? What would you do? 13:43.680 --> 13:48.640 Because obviously that's everyone's worst nightmare to have their pastor just die and you don't know what to do, right? 13:48.640 --> 13:53.280 He actually mentioned to me in 2023 that he would want Pastor Stuckey to come out, 13:54.240 --> 13:57.360 not only help with the transition, maybe even take over as pastor temporarily. 13:58.320 --> 14:03.920 And I just bring that up to just throw out there. 14:03.920 --> 14:07.520 It's crazy that he wasn't even reached out to during this transition. 14:07.520 --> 14:13.200 During the, you know, for counsel or as even requested to be a candidate. 14:19.200 --> 14:26.080 So yeah, I had that conversation with Deacon and I, when I was out so long with him on January 17th of this year, 2026, 14:26.080 --> 14:29.040 and I referred back to that conversation I had with Roger in 2023. 14:30.640 --> 14:34.400 On that same Saturday, on the 17th, there was a picnic 14:35.360 --> 14:41.440 that was arranged by one of the church members of Verity and a lot of the members were there and the trustees were there. 14:42.320 --> 14:45.520 At least, at least Oliver and Graham was there. I can't remember if Jose was there. 14:47.520 --> 14:53.600 I, you know, I remember hearing men at the church, they would, they, everyone's talking about, everyone's asking questions. 14:53.600 --> 15:00.400 And one of the men actually who still goes to Verity specifically asked or told Brother Oliver, you know, I recommend, 15:01.280 --> 15:08.080 he was saying like, you know, maybe it'd be a good idea to get the men of the church together and just tell them like who, 15:08.080 --> 15:13.600 who the trustees were considering to be candidates to just to make sure that you don't pick somebody that 15:14.160 --> 15:20.800 most of the people in the church would not support or like and then later have a church split over that. 15:22.560 --> 15:28.640 And, you know, I don't think, sadly, I don't think that they 15:29.520 --> 15:35.040 really got counsel from anyone, the trustees, during that time and they definitely, most certainly, did not 15:35.600 --> 15:41.200 disclose anything about their choices or decisions to the church family during that time. 15:48.160 --> 15:54.240 Over the next few days, January 18th through January 21st, 2025, I had multiple conversations with Deacon Oliver, 15:55.120 --> 16:01.520 just sharing my thoughts and opinions about the transition during these talks, especially after Sunday the 18th, 16:01.520 --> 16:07.760 Oliver had seemed to be much more happy and at peace. He mentioned on Wednesday, January 21st, 16:07.760 --> 16:12.960 he mentioned on that Monday, speaking forward of the Wednesday, that we would be getting good news. 16:13.680 --> 16:18.480 Also during this talk on that either Monday or Tuesday or early Wednesday, 16:19.360 --> 16:26.240 I specifically talked to him about, I referred back to the three men that I mentioned three men to him 16:26.240 --> 16:30.880 previously when I went solely with him. I mentioned three men that I would suggest that he call for 16:30.880 --> 16:37.200 counsel or as a candidate and I referred back to that conversation and Pastor Brzezarnski was my 16:37.200 --> 16:47.920 third choice in that list and I talked to him why I put him on the third of the list and I told him, 16:47.920 --> 16:50.880 because I was concerned, I'm just gonna be honest with you, I was concerned they were going to 16:50.880 --> 16:57.920 consider him at the first and not Pastor Stuckey who I thought should be talked to as well and sure 16:57.920 --> 17:03.760 enough that's what happened later, but the reason why I told him that I put him in the third position 17:03.760 --> 17:09.760 was because number one, he was unclear on his doctrine and on calling upon the name of the Lord. 17:10.960 --> 17:15.760 Yeah, he had preached very oddly about that in the past, like I think in the past year, 17:16.720 --> 17:24.880 at 2025 and told him what was said so on and so forth. Deacon Oliver appreciated it, said he would 17:24.880 --> 17:28.320 discuss it with them and make sure not to worry, kept telling me not to worry about it, 17:30.320 --> 17:31.600 that they were going to take care of it. 17:34.240 --> 17:43.200 And the other reason why I put Pastor Brzezarnski on the third of the position was because he, 17:43.600 --> 17:48.400 I didn't know him that well and I feel like a lot of the men at Verity, yes they knew him back years 17:48.400 --> 17:56.080 ago, but I feel like Pastor Brzezarnski was not very, he's not very outspoken and strong about a 17:56.080 --> 18:03.760 lot of doctrine so that was why I was worried. It was just not knowing fully his doctrinal stance 18:03.760 --> 18:10.800 in a lot of areas and primarily calling upon the new Lord which is extremely important. It's 18:11.440 --> 18:14.960 a fundamental doctrine. It's salvation, right? It's the gospel. 18:20.480 --> 18:25.200 So yeah, I gave him those reasons why I was concerned about Pastor Brzezarnski because I 18:25.200 --> 18:31.120 just had a hunch that they were talking to him, number one, without talking to the others. 18:33.040 --> 18:38.400 Actually, I should clarify, I had mixed thoughts at the time but maybe, I thought maybe they were 18:38.400 --> 18:42.160 talking to all three of the people I thought about. I don't know, I didn't really know. We 18:42.160 --> 18:48.000 didn't know if they were getting counsel outside counsel or not. On Wednesday, January 21st, 18:48.000 --> 18:53.920 2026, Pastor Jared Brzezarnski was announced as the new pastor and we also found out 18:54.960 --> 19:01.680 that he had actually previously accepted the position and said he would take it on January 19:01.680 --> 19:07.680 18th, Sunday, January 18th, 2025. It just had not been announced to us until that Wednesday the 21st. 19:08.400 --> 19:13.280 On Friday, January 23rd, 2026, there was a private men's meeting and dinner where Pastor 19:13.280 --> 19:19.360 Brzezarnski, he wanted to have fellowship with the men and meet anyone he hasn't met before 19:20.240 --> 19:26.000 and visit with people he hasn't met in a long time and he wanted to dispel a lot of rumors, 19:26.000 --> 19:34.880 I guess, that have been spread about him during this time. Those rumors were, people, I guess 19:34.880 --> 19:39.760 there was rumors that he was racist and stuff and obviously there was rumors that he was 19:40.880 --> 19:45.440 not against feminism, not against divorce. There was rumors that he was a flat earther, 19:46.000 --> 19:52.640 that he believed in geocentricity and lastly he mentioned that there was rumors that he 19:54.480 --> 19:59.920 doesn't believe in calling upon the new Lord and he went through all of those rumors 20:00.880 --> 20:06.240 and said the reasons why they're not true and when he got to calling upon the name of Lord, 20:06.960 --> 20:11.120 this is what he said, he said he went back and relistened to an old sermon by Roger Menes on 20:11.120 --> 20:17.840 calling upon the name of Lord and he said he agreed with it. So take that however you want. 20:30.240 --> 20:34.000 At this point, you know, I had high hopes, Verity, you know, I honestly thought, 20:34.000 --> 20:41.600 okay we're gonna be okay, I thought we were gonna be okay and on January 24th, 20:41.600 --> 20:49.600 24th, Saturday January 24th, 2026, let me just say this really quick before I read this, 20:50.560 --> 21:00.480 before that Saturday, the 24th of January 2026, I had began to voice to Deacon Oliver that I felt 21:00.480 --> 21:06.240 that this moral sin should be disclosed to the church and he recommended that I talk to Pastor 21:06.240 --> 21:11.120 Jared so Pastor Jared actually requested that I get paired with him that Saturday at Soling, so I 21:11.120 --> 21:19.440 did and we talked about it. He didn't want the reasons why he didn't want to reveal the sin and 21:19.600 --> 21:25.040 he also told me that he actually did not know what the sin was until after he became pastor 21:25.040 --> 21:32.720 and he purposely did not want to know and did not ask to know what that sin was and but he found out 21:32.720 --> 21:38.160 indirectly later and you know we talked about that, he told me the reasons why he didn't want 21:38.160 --> 21:44.240 to reveal it, he didn't want to reveal it because he wanted Roger's family to still come to Verity 21:45.200 --> 21:47.120 even after that and 21:51.520 --> 21:57.120 during that conversation also I mentioned to him how that I felt that 21:58.640 --> 22:04.880 Roger Jimenez, I felt like Roger Jimenez was not, it was not an entirely and 22:05.520 --> 22:11.520 unpressured resignation you know and this is the way I put it down, I said it feels like when let's 22:11.520 --> 22:17.760 say somebody gets fired for example and so you're telling somebody you're fired and he's like you 22:17.760 --> 22:24.480 know I quit actually, I'm not fired, I quit so and then they go tell the whole world that they quit 22:24.480 --> 22:30.400 and he wasn't fired so I felt like it was like that situation and this is not in my notes either 22:30.400 --> 22:34.960 but you know I told him that you know I felt like it was that like that situation and I also told 22:35.040 --> 22:41.360 him I said you know this is what I told him I said you know I feel that I could move on like later 22:41.360 --> 22:44.720 in the future years down the road or six months down the road or whatever let's say if Roger came 22:44.720 --> 22:50.640 back I told him I said I feel that it wouldn't bother me and I could forgive Roger and move on 22:50.640 --> 22:54.960 but I told him I said I feel like most people would not be able to do that is what I told him 22:54.960 --> 22:59.280 and I said I feel like it would turn into a Matthew 18 situation where he could literally 22:59.280 --> 23:07.840 never come back to Verity unless he like people's bitterness with him was resolved over this and he 23:09.040 --> 23:16.480 you know maybe confess to to his friends right before he came back so that they could forgive 23:16.480 --> 23:25.440 him and have mercy and move on and so anyways yeah he told me why he didn't want to reveal it 23:25.440 --> 23:28.240 those are the reasons why he wouldn't reveal it I told him the reasons why I think it should be 23:28.240 --> 23:33.680 revealed but at that point even though you know I felt the sense should be revealed I was willing 23:33.680 --> 23:40.480 to move on and still serve and support Verity on March 8th 2025 Pastor Suckey preached the sermon 23:41.200 --> 23:45.360 exposing the ongoing theft that Roger Jimenez had committed over the last several years I'm sorry 23:45.360 --> 23:51.440 if I said 2025 being 26 March 8th 2026 he preached that sermon exposing all the theft that Roger had 23:51.440 --> 23:59.280 done over the years to his mission work there in his church and Pastor Jared got up and said 24:01.600 --> 24:07.040 that he was surprised Pastor Jared said he was surprised and he mentioned that there was a 24:07.040 --> 24:11.840 percentage of the donations and not all of the donations that had gone to the Philippines 24:11.840 --> 24:18.480 Philippines over the years and he also said quote to Deacon Oliver's credit he said this 24:19.040 --> 24:24.960 was one of the first things that Deacon Oliver had brought to his attention when he took over 24:24.960 --> 24:31.840 at the end of January and he immediately changed it to dollar for dollar and he also said after 24:31.840 --> 24:36.880 that he said that's just my personal opinion I'm not throwing shade on either side of this thing 24:38.320 --> 24:45.280 then he goes to mention an email where the split agreement that Roger came up with was agreed upon 24:45.280 --> 24:55.200 and he said that it was a much better deal than let me see here sorry he said that it was a much 24:55.200 --> 25:00.800 better deal than what Pastor Suckey had requested that's what was being said okay 25:08.160 --> 25:12.880 at this point you know all the church was just shocked honestly we were just shocked 25:13.200 --> 25:21.520 and you know Pastor Jared had made it look like Deacon Oliver had known this whole time that it 25:21.520 --> 25:27.120 was a problem that's how he made it look it looked like Deacon Oliver knew all along there was a 25:27.120 --> 25:31.520 problem and as soon as Pastor Jared took over Deacon Oliver's like we got to fix this that's 25:31.520 --> 25:39.520 exactly the way it sounded the next day on March the 9th I called Roger Menes 25:39.680 --> 25:40.400 Roger Menes 25:42.560 --> 25:47.440 now yeah you know keep keep in mind this remember how at the end of his resignation you know we all 25:47.440 --> 25:51.760 had an opportunity to talk to him and he said I could keep in touch with him right so I kept in 25:51.760 --> 25:56.960 touch with him he actually had requested that I be a reference for him for a job when he applied 25:56.960 --> 26:04.160 for a job a specific job and you know I felt like since Roger was my friend since he said I could 26:04.160 --> 26:09.200 keep in touch with him and since you know we had already been in communication recently that I could 26:09.200 --> 26:18.800 just call him up real quick and see what he has to say in regards to all of these claims right 26:20.560 --> 26:29.040 so I did and let me just continue here let me just say this so I called him up March the 9th 26:30.000 --> 26:39.040 2020 2026 March the 9th 2026 this was last week and um I just straight up asked him you know 26:39.200 --> 26:44.560 obviously you know what do you I'm sure you heard about pastor Stuckey and everything he's claiming 26:45.440 --> 26:46.480 and um 26:51.920 --> 26:57.200 and so yeah so I asked him you know what what did he what do you have to say to all of it right 26:58.320 --> 27:03.040 and um we had a very long conversation but I'll pretty much summarize the cliff notes for you 27:03.680 --> 27:10.000 basically he said the sucky was lying and that um he said that he had no idea that these were ear 27:10.000 --> 27:16.800 marks for him he told me things like anytime money came in that he would make sure it got to him that 27:16.800 --> 27:21.200 any money anytime money came in that was specifically for Matthew Stuckey or the missions over there 27:21.200 --> 27:24.960 he would make sure that I got to him he meant he gave me a couple stories he talked about how 27:24.960 --> 27:30.240 somebody gave him a check one time for Matthew Stuckey and he made sure that pastor Stuckey got 27:30.240 --> 27:35.760 it he also mentioned that money came in for the UK church um that I think pastor Thompson was 27:35.760 --> 27:42.960 leading at the time he made sure it came got over there for then as well he mentioned that um 27:44.240 --> 27:47.920 he went back to when the church was started in Philippines and mentioned that they spent a lot 27:47.920 --> 27:54.320 of money to get that going and we talked in depth you know I asked him I'm like you know when online 27:54.320 --> 27:59.120 donations came in I was like you know there's the memo section right I'm like did you see 28:00.720 --> 28:06.400 like when when pastor Stuckey would send do all the books or whatever did he disclose to you Roger 28:06.960 --> 28:14.160 that these memos that say BBC Manila did he and he said no he said that pastor Stuckey was not 28:15.040 --> 28:21.280 uh disclosing this to him the earmarks specifically talking about all the donations that were noted 28:21.280 --> 28:26.640 to be going to him specifically and he pretty much played the ignorance game on that call 28:27.600 --> 28:33.680 and um said that pastor Stuckey was lying and I'm not going to say who but I called up 28:35.440 --> 28:42.800 somebody that I know a pastor friend and um soon there I either I call him or I text him I can't 28:42.800 --> 28:46.080 remember exactly but I pretty much and he can attest to this I was like you know I don't think 28:46.080 --> 28:50.560 there was actually any theft I told him I'm like I got off the phone with Roger directly 28:51.520 --> 28:54.480 and said I don't think there's any theft at all I think it was just 28:56.000 --> 28:59.840 I think that uh there was no theft I'm like maybe this is maybe that I said maybe 29:01.280 --> 29:06.880 you know maybe there I brought up um like you know I'm some sometimes there's missions organizations 29:07.600 --> 29:10.240 and I grew up in church and I went to many missions conference but there's certain 29:10.240 --> 29:13.920 missionaries they'll have like missions organizations that'll be like a clearing 29:13.920 --> 29:18.960 house you could say where they'll take in the donations for that missionary and it is known 29:18.960 --> 29:24.000 that that organization will keep part of the funds for whatever salaries administrative costs 29:24.000 --> 29:32.320 etc and um I thought well maybe and and Roger actually said this on the call that he's like I 29:32.320 --> 29:39.280 don't he's like is is Stuckey thinking that just all missions in general the general category 29:39.280 --> 29:46.160 missions is supposed to go to him and um so I got off that call I'm like because I trusted Roger at 29:46.160 --> 29:52.960 the time right and I hear all these claims the day before I'm like holy crap so I'm thinking okay 29:52.960 --> 29:59.440 well maybe there were that really wasn't money stolen necessarily here right maybe maybe it 29:59.440 --> 30:08.160 wasn't really theft maybe it really wasn't wrong what happened and I actually called Pastor Jared 30:08.160 --> 30:17.600 that evening and he told me straight up that Roger did know he for sure knew the memos he knew the 30:17.600 --> 30:22.640 earmarks he knew that um he knew that there he knew that there was money meant for Manila that 30:22.640 --> 30:29.520 didn't go there Pastor told me Pastor Jared told me he Roger knew that there was money meant for 30:29.520 --> 30:34.160 Manila and and intentionally to not send it to them money that the donors thought they were 30:34.240 --> 30:41.440 sending to Manila that we advertised we would send over there that did not go over there 30:42.560 --> 30:49.280 that was Monday night so uh obviously Pastor Stuckey did a podcast on Tuesday night I listened to that 30:50.320 --> 30:54.960 Wednesday night um I told my wife let's just see what is said on Wednesday before we really 30:54.960 --> 31:02.240 mentally make a decision and of course Wednesday night Pastor Jared got up and confirmed that this 31:02.240 --> 31:09.760 money had been withheld from VBC Manila and Pastor Stuckey it had been confirmed 31:11.200 --> 31:20.800 and um that was a shock and it was crazy just this is insane this is wild okay everyone's 31:20.800 --> 31:27.600 thinking and feeling the next day the next day I want to pull up my call log to make sure I 31:28.560 --> 31:32.240 remember the order of conversations here it was recent actually you know what I won't go back 31:32.240 --> 31:40.000 enough but um I believe it was in the morning that Thursday Thursday the it would be Thursday the 12th 31:41.520 --> 31:46.400 I called Roger and asked him if I could ask him a few questions 31:47.680 --> 31:51.600 the first question I actually had a note written let's see if I can pull that note up before I 31:51.600 --> 32:00.720 called him and I had a few questions written down the first question I asked him was this 32:01.840 --> 32:05.280 and I have this note that I have on my computer here and I specifically asked him I said 32:06.400 --> 32:12.960 it has been investigated and came to light that you did in fact know that money specifically 32:12.960 --> 32:20.880 marked for Manila has been withheld from them for years I said Pastor Buzarski sees this 32:21.600 --> 32:25.920 and has confirmed this and Pastor Stuckey has seen this and confirmed this I said why did you 32:25.920 --> 32:32.240 lie to me on Monday and he said I didn't lie to you Monday I I admitted that I did that 32:32.960 --> 32:43.120 and I just my head just just like what I was like what I said you just you're flipping a 180 on me 32:43.120 --> 32:48.080 here and he's like well I'm not justifying that it happened I'm not just saying that happened you know 32:48.080 --> 32:56.640 but I did tell you Monday that I did it and like holy cow I'm like this is already starting out bad 32:56.640 --> 33:02.320 this is bad here okay and then he's like he goes on to say you know Pastor Stuckey's paraphrasing 33:02.320 --> 33:07.840 things Pastor Stuckey agreed to this Pastor Stuckey and he actually said to this he actually said this 33:07.840 --> 33:12.480 to me on Monday as well but he repeated it on Thursday he kept saying like Pastor Stuckey knew 33:12.560 --> 33:18.720 that you know I lost my platform I don't have a platform to speak now and you know I had told him 33:18.720 --> 33:23.280 Monday I'm like you know you could make a video and just defend yourself I told him that Monday 33:23.280 --> 33:29.280 like you could make a video and I'm sure everyone would watch it you know I even told him Thursday 33:29.280 --> 33:33.360 like you know I would you know I think I actually think I told him that Monday like I could help you 33:33.360 --> 33:39.920 with this let's make a video you know if you're innocent here with these claims and um he kept 33:39.920 --> 33:45.280 just kept saying I don't have a platform Stuckey knew you know Stuckey waited and now you know I 33:45.280 --> 33:51.760 lost my position as pastor and then like he knew I don't have a platform now basically saying he 33:51.760 --> 33:56.000 doesn't have a voice which he can come out and say what he wants to say he could but he but he 33:56.000 --> 34:02.960 won't unfortunately or hasn't so that was the beginning of the conversation and um and then 34:02.960 --> 34:11.120 he starts to say like you know first of all you shouldn't be rude to me and he's saying that I 34:11.120 --> 34:20.080 was being rude to him and um I was being pretty hard on him honestly not as hard as Pastor Anderson 34:20.080 --> 34:30.240 was back in 2024 though but I was being hard on him and um you know if Rod if Rodgers listen to 34:30.240 --> 34:33.920 this let me tell you Roger I care about you and I love you and that's why I called you then on 34:33.920 --> 34:42.000 Thursday I do and anyway so we're talking and he's he's saying like Pastor Stuckey's a liar 34:42.640 --> 34:47.920 Pastor Stuckey is paraphrasing things like I can show you the emails I can show you the emails 34:47.920 --> 34:52.160 he's telling me this on Thursday so let me backtrack here real quick on Monday he told me the same 34:52.160 --> 34:56.720 thing like I can show you the emails like I could send them to you and on Monday I'm like no don't 34:56.720 --> 35:02.320 worry about it I trust you Thursday he says the same thing like I can send you the emails and I'm 35:02.320 --> 35:07.760 like well send them to me then he's like I got the emails I'm like well send them to me then 35:07.760 --> 35:13.440 and then he goes on to say like well who are you that I and that you could you should demand that 35:13.440 --> 35:19.280 I send you these emails and I said well well who am I well I mean I've been your friend for nine 35:19.280 --> 35:24.560 years you've been my pastor for nine years I care about you you said I could keep in touch with you 35:24.560 --> 35:31.600 you've literally asked me to be a reference for you in the last week I said have I not been a friend 35:33.120 --> 35:38.640 have we not been you know have you not been my pastor for years and I said I said how would 35:38.640 --> 35:47.040 it make you feel if a friend of yours got accused of something he's saying all the accusations are 35:47.040 --> 35:51.040 false but then he won't send you the proof to prove himself innocent how do you think that would 35:51.040 --> 35:56.400 make him look and again he just he started to say something like you know you're being rude 35:56.400 --> 36:01.600 you blah blah blah whatever he was offended obviously I'm saying all this and um 36:03.760 --> 36:09.440 so you know we talked about that we talked about the donations and um you know I kept saying like 36:09.440 --> 36:15.920 you know you knew Stuckey has the emails where he's like asking you asking you asking you asking 36:15.920 --> 36:21.440 you for the money over and over and over again and he just repeatedly was like no no no no no 36:22.800 --> 36:25.440 I just didn't sent did not send him the money 36:27.920 --> 36:32.160 you know I was pretty pissed at this point I was very pissed at him I mean this is literally theft 36:32.160 --> 36:42.560 this is wicked this has been going on for years and um anyways uh oh let me let me jump ahead 36:42.560 --> 36:48.960 of the conversation so um so the theft that was just bad that was wicked I was pissed off as heck 36:48.960 --> 36:55.280 um and let me let me rewind just a little bit here okay 36:59.440 --> 37:04.880 um that I and this is coming back to me I actually called Shaw that morning before I called Roger 37:05.600 --> 37:10.000 because of the fact that I heard when that he was leaving the church and I was very shocked Shaw is 37:10.000 --> 37:14.720 a good friend of mine and I actually called Shaw he told me everything he knows go back and listen 37:14.720 --> 37:19.840 to his um I'm not gonna I don't want to take too much time up here go back and listen to his 37:19.840 --> 37:25.680 testimony he told me all of that Ava told me everything that she knew and I was just shocked 37:25.680 --> 37:30.480 so I already knew that there was I knew at least there was a severance I didn't know all any other 37:30.480 --> 37:36.400 details about that neither did Shaw he knew that there was a chevron sorry a severance he knew that 37:36.400 --> 37:43.280 they were being hush hush about it being quiet about it and and during that conversation like 37:43.280 --> 37:49.920 it got pretty heated and I was just like Roger like you were wicked you were wicked as wicked as 37:49.920 --> 37:53.680 I don't know how I worded it but I'm like this is just absolutely insane like you're wicked for 37:54.400 --> 38:02.880 literally threatening to sue threatening to sue the church if they to fame you that they reveal 38:02.880 --> 38:08.400 certain things about you and don't pay you a severance and refusing to step down 38:10.000 --> 38:13.440 literally the Tuesday I'm getting ahead of myself and what I found out but I found out 38:13.440 --> 38:17.840 that literally the Tuesday before he resigned he literally was refusing to step down 38:18.800 --> 38:27.040 I refuse to step down unless you agree to pay me agree to shut up about me and um you know sign 38:27.040 --> 38:33.120 this agreement and which gives me right to sue you if you break this contract I said how wicked 38:33.120 --> 38:37.360 of you to threaten to sue someone why did threaten to sue on somebody I'm like well you did on paper 38:38.160 --> 38:39.840 you did threaten to sue on paper 38:42.880 --> 38:47.120 and I'm like this is wicked this is bad you know what NDAs are normal in ministry 38:47.840 --> 38:53.680 NDAs are very normal in ministry and he said NDA by the way and that'll be important to note that 38:54.240 --> 38:58.560 yes it was not an NDA I know Graham's probably going to listen to this but like it's not an NDA 38:58.560 --> 39:04.800 okay shut up I'm not stupid okay yes it's not an NDA but it has similar wording similar verbiage 39:04.800 --> 39:07.840 similar concepts in it okay good night 39:10.960 --> 39:14.720 but yeah he you know he was using the word NDA he's like I could have sued them because they 39:14.720 --> 39:20.960 already broke it and I'm like but I didn't he said and I'm like you have you threatened to do so on 39:20.960 --> 39:31.200 paper and um yeah it's so we talk about that I'm like this is wicked this is crazy this is insane 39:31.200 --> 39:36.960 and then um and then I'm like you know I wanted to talk about the moral sin but like how am I 39:36.960 --> 39:41.120 going to talk about it so I just straight up and just change the topic randomly and I'm like 39:41.120 --> 39:46.480 did you get caught did you get caught he ignored me acted like I didn't even ask him the question 39:46.480 --> 39:54.720 asked him three times ignored it did not even respond to it and during this entire time he was 39:54.720 --> 40:01.040 completely unapologetic for all the thievery that he had done to pastor Stuckey completely 40:01.040 --> 40:08.880 unresmorseful completely unapologetic and at the very end I told him I said I care about you Roger 40:08.880 --> 40:15.040 I care about your family and I said you you owe two you should give two apologies I said you owe 40:15.120 --> 40:19.440 the church a Paul an apology for committing a sin that disqualified you 40:21.600 --> 40:25.760 and um and I'm hearing I'm hearing you know some of these things from 40:26.320 --> 40:32.960 Shaw that he can and I confirm this later I'm getting it I'll get to that but Shaw confirmed 40:33.520 --> 40:40.320 you know that and I confirmed later that he did commit a major sin that did disqualify him and 40:40.320 --> 40:44.800 he had to step down like that's wicked that you you know refused to step down that Tuesday before 40:44.800 --> 40:50.800 the Thursday so on and so forth and I said you owe the church an apology for committing the sin and 40:50.800 --> 40:56.000 you know failing as a pastor like you owe the church an apology I said I literally told him I 40:56.000 --> 41:02.960 said that was the most chat gbt garbage resignation I've ever seen I'm like good night good night 41:04.640 --> 41:09.440 and um I told him I said you owe the church an apology for the moral sin whatever and I said you 41:09.440 --> 41:15.120 owe everyone an apology and pastor Stuckey an apology for stealing from him for years 41:16.560 --> 41:20.000 not giving that money back so he owes two apologies I said 41:22.000 --> 41:26.080 and that was the end of the conversation I said I may never talk to you again but I hope that you 41:26.080 --> 41:31.760 get right I care about you I love you that was pretty much the end of the conversation there 41:31.760 --> 41:38.000 so at this point I had already heard everything that Shaw said called Roger confronted him on some 41:38.000 --> 41:50.160 of those things and um so you know Roger indirectly admitted some of it already right the 41:51.360 --> 42:00.240 contract they already had the um the the contract they already had he you wouldn't answer if you 42:00.240 --> 42:10.400 got caught um you know the the theft that he did to pastor Stuckey so I called pastor Jared first 42:11.760 --> 42:15.120 he was my pastor at the time so I called him first before I would call all of her about any 42:15.120 --> 42:22.960 claims against him called pastor Jared and we talked about the severance package we talked about 42:23.760 --> 42:24.560 the transition 42:24.560 --> 42:32.560 and something that pastor Jared told me because because I told him about the conversation with 42:32.560 --> 42:39.200 Roger and um he was pretty blown away and even even pastor Jared admitted on that call Roger is 42:39.200 --> 42:46.240 a liar and a manipulator he came out of his own mouth pastor Jared and um during this call he 42:46.240 --> 42:53.120 confirmed to me that on the severance package there was um non-defamation non-defamation verbiage 42:55.200 --> 42:58.960 and you know I told him I said look you know I do contracts all the time I do commercial and 42:58.960 --> 43:04.240 residential real estate I deal with NDAs in commercial real estate a lot quite a bit and 43:04.240 --> 43:11.040 you know I'm like in contract world there's always the you know uh like a consequence or 43:11.040 --> 43:15.920 whatever for breaking the contract right and I'm like there has to be in this contract 43:16.560 --> 43:19.600 threat of lawsuit I'm like Roger already admitted that that he could have sued 43:20.080 --> 43:24.640 because apparently he thinks they already broke it uh their silence agreement or whatever 43:25.840 --> 43:30.800 and um and he confirmed to me he's like yes I do remember hearing when we're going through it that 43:30.800 --> 43:36.160 there was non-defamation verbiage on it he um he said he actually got this is what he told me he 43:36.160 --> 43:40.560 said I when I when they started going through it I was bothered I'm like this is not right you 43:40.640 --> 43:49.280 shouldn't assign this contract um I'm not you know he's like it was he told brother Grant brother 43:49.280 --> 43:54.960 Oliver this is not right you shouldn't assign this shouldn't agree to this and he said that he he 43:54.960 --> 43:59.600 said he couldn't he didn't even go through the whole thing he was already bothered and he said 43:59.600 --> 44:03.280 and I told him I'm like there there's for sure a threat of lawsuit in there he's like well I'm 44:03.280 --> 44:10.400 gonna have to go back and look at it and and and um but you know so it's confirmed 44:11.120 --> 44:15.120 not only by my conversation with Roger but also with Jared that there's non-defamation verbiage 44:15.120 --> 44:20.400 in there there's a threat of lawsuit in there and later in a later conversation I double confirmed 44:20.400 --> 44:31.040 as well uh that with Oliver and with um uh through other people at Verdi I'll just say that you know 44:31.040 --> 44:37.840 they just reinforced that for sure Roger could sue if they came out against him or whatever 44:37.840 --> 44:43.920 right uh and exposed things about him that were supposed to be kept silent on the agreement right 44:43.920 --> 44:49.760 so Jared confirmed that Jared said that he was against it as soon as it began to get read 44:50.320 --> 44:57.440 and he said he said that Oliver and brother Graham felt very very bad about it Graham offered to pay 44:57.440 --> 45:04.560 it multiple times and Jared repeatedly said no no no no and Pastor Jared told me that he was 45:04.560 --> 45:10.240 going to pay for it he said he was going to pay for it out of his own pocket and to my knowledge 45:10.240 --> 45:17.920 she's already paid for it paid for the severance and um so you know he confirmed all of that I 45:17.920 --> 45:24.640 called Oliver later and I talked to him about the transition because obviously I heard a lot of 45:24.640 --> 45:31.520 things about how he was pressured and how to sign something and so on and so forth and Oliver 45:31.520 --> 45:39.360 confirmed to me that he met with Joanne privately and Joanne confided in them about how wicked and 45:39.360 --> 45:45.760 bad the sin was and how long it had been going on and that had been going on for like a year 45:45.760 --> 45:51.280 or I should say Roger knew that he should have stepped down for a year prior and um it had been 45:51.280 --> 45:55.600 going on for a long time whatever that long time is you know Oliver didn't say to me and he 45:55.600 --> 46:01.200 definitely didn't say to Shaw how long it had been um he confirmed that he confirmed that um 46:02.080 --> 46:06.640 he agreed that he should step down absolutely and should have stepped down a long time ago 46:06.640 --> 46:14.000 he confirmed to me that on that Tuesday Roger refused to step down and said sign this paper 46:14.000 --> 46:20.320 to pay me and basically it was a shut up document you could say that it was the shut up document 46:21.040 --> 46:26.320 sign this agreement promising to pay me and shut up about me and not defame me or I could sue you 46:27.280 --> 46:32.320 that was that was what the contract was he confirmed it to me when I called him he said 46:32.320 --> 46:39.280 this is how he described it he said that Tuesday he had a meeting with Roger I think brother 46:39.280 --> 46:43.040 Graham was there too I'm not sure if Roger was no Graham was in the room or not when this happened 46:43.040 --> 46:47.360 but Roger chewed him out ripped him to shreds 46:49.600 --> 46:52.960 and obviously Oliver didn't necessarily describe it like that but he said this is how he did 46:52.960 --> 47:00.080 describe it he said it was the worst day of his life he said that he had literally had a mental 47:00.080 --> 47:07.280 breakdown and he said he's never been more humiliated in his whole life 47:07.280 --> 47:15.680 and the contract was true and he signed it so just for the Verity family you may be told you may be 47:15.680 --> 47:23.120 being told right now that he was not coerced in designing that he was not pressured in designing 47:23.120 --> 47:30.800 that but in reality he was he was coerced in designing that he was pressured in designing that 47:31.520 --> 47:40.160 he was pressured in designing that and he admitted it he knows it and it is a lie and I talked to 47:40.160 --> 47:45.360 I talked to Oliver about this I'm like you guys made it out to be that number one that he didn't 47:45.360 --> 47:50.160 need to step down that he could have stayed past her and he willingly and entirely on his own 47:50.160 --> 47:55.120 stepped down even though Joanne like panicked and confided in you guys told him that he needs to 47:55.120 --> 47:59.120 step down all of the stuff let me just let me back up really quick you know just for full 47:59.600 --> 48:07.600 transparency Oliver told me he told me that on January the 5th keep in mind this is like literally 48:07.600 --> 48:13.920 three days after I had Roger and then I was over for dinner with my wife on January the 5th I just 48:13.920 --> 48:18.320 want to make sure I disclose everything Oliver told me and not just leaving out stuff purposely 48:18.320 --> 48:23.600 he did tell me Oliver told me that he did communicate with Roger on his by text or phone 48:23.600 --> 48:28.880 and Roger told him that he was going to step down because of sin on January the 5th of this year and 48:28.880 --> 48:40.640 later on January my calendar here and later on January the 10th that is when the meeting with 48:40.640 --> 48:47.680 Joanne happened so January 5th Roger communicated he's going to step down to Oliver and January 10th 48:47.680 --> 48:53.600 he had Joanne had that meeting where she confided in them all of her melody 48:53.600 --> 49:00.160 and how that he needed to step down he should have stepped down here ago so on and so forth 49:00.160 --> 49:08.480 was really bad blah blah blah and then Oliver confirmed that Shaw had reached out and they 49:08.480 --> 49:15.520 welcomed them over to their home to discuss this just everything the transition or like what 49:15.520 --> 49:19.760 happened the transition so on and so forth because obviously Shaw found out that Monday morning that 49:20.480 --> 49:24.640 Roger was going to resign so it was just shocking so they wanted to Shaw wanted to just sit down 49:24.640 --> 49:30.880 and talk about it and all confirmed that that happened and just to the Verity family you may 49:30.880 --> 49:40.160 be hearing that Oliver that Shaw literally showed up unannounced at Oliver's house let me just tell 49:40.160 --> 49:46.800 you that right right now that is a absolute lie Oliver was welcoming Shaw over Oliver and then 49:46.800 --> 49:52.480 met for three hours you know Oliver confirmed all of this to me and then Tuesday rolls around 49:52.480 --> 49:58.560 Oliver melody and Joanne are all like this is wicked as heck absolutely insane he should have 49:58.560 --> 50:05.840 stepped down a year ago and then Tuesday rolls around and and instead of stepping down it's like 50:05.840 --> 50:13.920 wait let's wait two days Graham comes in here's the contract and Oliver confirmed to me that Roger 50:14.560 --> 50:21.280 said he's not going to step down unless they put the severance package on paper with you know the 50:21.280 --> 50:29.920 full contract language full non-defamation language full agreement to not defame Roger not to reveal 50:29.920 --> 50:35.360 certain secrets about him that were private and so on and so forth obviously I don't really 50:35.360 --> 50:40.320 think the mortal sin was on there of course it was probably just a contract basically saying 50:40.320 --> 50:43.920 the contract basically saying they're not going to defame him they're not going to reveal things 50:43.920 --> 50:49.040 that are private so on and so forth right which would include the moral sin he confirmed that he 50:49.040 --> 50:54.800 literally Oliver told me himself Roger was not going to step down he was spiraling out of control 50:56.320 --> 51:03.360 and chewed him out and he all of that and um and I told all I told Oliver I'm like you know that 51:03.360 --> 51:07.120 was not why you guys were conveying to the Verity family you conveyed that he stepped down his own 51:07.280 --> 51:12.800 his own it was just all praise and lifting up this man and keeping his image good 51:13.360 --> 51:20.560 but in reality it wasn't it wasn't that good in reality he was pressured to step down and um 51:21.600 --> 51:28.000 Oliver just signed it to get him to step down because he's spiraling out of control and 51:28.000 --> 51:32.160 Graham saying he regrets it Graham saying I'll pay for it George saying no I'll pay for it 51:32.800 --> 51:34.880 Graham saying I don't think you should have stepped down 51:36.640 --> 51:44.000 and those were the big conversations I had during that time and um I also had spoken to 51:44.000 --> 51:50.640 Pastor Stuckey FYI and confirmed some things as well um just from his perspective 51:51.920 --> 51:56.800 and let me just say this when I want to wrap this up let me get this notes here 52:02.320 --> 52:07.760 I told Oliver and I told Pope I told both Pastor Jared and Oliver I said to both of them I said 52:08.320 --> 52:13.520 I do not believe it's good first of all that to an unrepentant man 52:15.120 --> 52:21.920 that you were going to take church funds and use it to pay this guy off to make him quit 52:21.920 --> 52:28.000 okay take church funds to make him quit to make him step down and then literally 52:28.400 --> 52:34.720 and then literally make it illegal for you to disclose these bad things about him and sign 52:34.720 --> 52:41.280 that contract I said that's I told him I said this I said I told Oliver I said you know if you would 52:41.280 --> 52:45.520 if we just talked to the men about this and you disclose what happened during the transition and 52:45.520 --> 52:51.840 just admit your fault and you know I said people would have huge respect for you people would have 52:51.840 --> 52:57.440 mercy and I told Pastor Jared the same thing I'm like if we could just you know I feel like 52:58.240 --> 53:02.240 the men of the church should know that these things they should you know I feel like people's 53:02.240 --> 53:06.160 respect for you guys would go up greatly if you guys did have a meeting with the men 53:07.920 --> 53:14.160 and um so we finished all those conversations that Friday I believe it was and I told my wife 53:14.160 --> 53:20.480 that night I said um and just so you know also Wednesday night as well we really did not like 53:20.480 --> 53:29.440 the fact that Pastor Jared for whatever reason would not call what Roger Jimenez did sin 53:30.560 --> 53:36.080 like he wouldn't he would he just went real light on Roger Jimenez and all of his sin he 53:36.080 --> 53:41.440 did not rebuke before all like the Bible says there was no rebuking there was just like it 53:41.440 --> 53:48.080 was unethical it was immoral it was a problem the buck stops with the pastor it was not it was sin 53:48.080 --> 53:56.560 it was wicked it was evil like true rebuking should be that already bothered me and um I told 53:56.560 --> 54:04.560 I you know I kind of conveyed that to Pastor Jared and um he told me you know he said he told me that 54:04.560 --> 54:09.040 he would think about having a meeting with the men to talk about these things Oliver said he would 54:09.040 --> 54:13.600 think about having a meeting with the man and talk to Pastor Jared about this and I told my wife Friday 54:13.600 --> 54:18.640 I said you know this is absolutely insane I'm blown away this has even happened I'm blown away 54:18.640 --> 54:24.240 that the trustees did this they didn't even read they didn't they didn't reach out for counsel 54:24.240 --> 54:30.560 they signed a they signed a shut up document just to get him to step down and was going to use 54:30.560 --> 54:39.440 church funds to just get him to step down that man was not unrepentant period and put on this 54:39.440 --> 54:45.040 facade of this great image that Roger Jimenez had and did not rebuke before all like the Bible says 54:46.800 --> 54:50.080 and Pastor Jared you know came and became pastor and even on Wednesday 54:50.880 --> 54:56.480 he did not rebuke before all like like the Bible says when a sin of the previous leadership was 54:56.480 --> 55:03.920 exposed and confirmed yes he yes he condemned it but in like the lightest possible way it did not 55:03.920 --> 55:07.760 you know I'm just it bothered my wife and I'm just gonna be honest it bothered me 55:09.520 --> 55:14.480 and um sat I told my wife Friday night I said we're gonna keep going to church 55:15.680 --> 55:18.400 and I want to see because they said they're gonna think about having a meeting with the man 55:19.600 --> 55:23.600 Saturday rolls around I go I'm a soul winning captain so I gotta get there a little bit early 55:23.600 --> 55:28.080 got there a little bit early I was gonna leave the music that morning as well help with the maps and 55:28.080 --> 55:32.640 stuff and pairing up or whatever or just I was passing out the maps and gonna leave the music 55:32.640 --> 55:41.040 and stuff and um Pastor Jared pulled me in his office immediately he read to me Robert's 11 55:43.520 --> 55:48.960 13 and he said that I don't want you to talk about any of this that we talked about in the 55:48.960 --> 55:52.800 past few days we're not gonna have a meeting with the men we decided to just press on without 55:52.800 --> 55:58.720 telling anyone about all this and I don't want you to tell anyone about it he said Luke I feel 55:58.720 --> 56:03.760 like you're just parroting new I'd be talking points and I stopped him I said no pastor no 56:04.320 --> 56:08.640 I said I feel like the men of Verity deserve to know these things they and the reason why I feel 56:08.640 --> 56:13.280 like the men of Verity need to know these things is because Deacon Oliver is one of our leaders 56:14.240 --> 56:22.080 Graham is a trustee of our church one of our leaders so is Jose and I said the men of the 56:22.080 --> 56:26.720 church need to know of these major mistakes that the trustees are making and have made 56:27.680 --> 56:33.680 because and if they admit it and acknowledge it then maybe the uh you know the men of the 56:33.680 --> 56:38.160 church can have trust in them again and he said well I'm afraid it's gonna go on the internet I 56:38.160 --> 56:41.680 told him I said look shaw's already talking to people about this I'm like it's gonna go on the 56:41.680 --> 56:46.640 internet like we can't really stop this unfortunately I said and I said it's gonna go out there no 56:46.640 --> 56:51.920 matter what so why don't we just meet with the men and apologize for what was done wrong acknowledge 56:51.920 --> 56:55.760 what was done wrong that way the men of the church can have trust in their leaders again trust in 56:55.760 --> 57:03.120 their trustees trust in the deacon and um trust in him as pastor and he said no we're not going 57:03.120 --> 57:07.600 to do that he said he said you know shaw left just because he's a fan of pastor anderson 57:07.600 --> 57:11.280 and he named some other families that left and he said they're just fans of pastor anderson 57:11.280 --> 57:15.360 like do you not think that I have my own conscience do I do you not think that I read my bible too 57:16.880 --> 57:21.200 of course I do I have my own conscience and I felt it was wrong and I felt the men of the 57:21.200 --> 57:26.880 church should know directly from you guys instead of just letting them find out the other way 57:28.400 --> 57:33.760 and he said no we're not going to do that so I said all right thank you for meeting with me 57:34.320 --> 57:37.600 end of the conversation I had to go leave the music I went soul winning 57:38.240 --> 57:43.600 didn't talk to my partner about that whatsoever and then I called my wife right after told her 57:43.600 --> 57:48.640 that we're leaving and this is important for the Verity family to know because this is not being 57:48.640 --> 57:54.880 told truthfully but I told my wife she asked me she said can I tell some of the women why we left 57:54.880 --> 57:58.560 and she typed up a message and sent it to like four limbies told him why we left 57:59.200 --> 58:04.320 I did not reach out to anybody she did I gave her permission to and literally within two hours there 58:04.320 --> 58:10.400 was a last minute meeting scheduled for 5 p.m against myself and my wife and shawn ava we 58:10.400 --> 58:16.480 were marked and avoided at this private meeting with the men and um my wife did not post it on 58:16.480 --> 58:21.280 the internet she sent it to a few people I think it was completely justified to do so 58:22.080 --> 58:27.360 and at this point I believe it is completely justified for me to come on here and to say all 58:27.360 --> 58:32.960 that I'm doing um and say say all that I'm saying and why I'm leaving Verity so hopefully that 58:34.560 --> 58:40.720 hopefully that um information is I hope that the people of Verity take this information 58:41.280 --> 58:47.920 and realize that Verity is a sinking ship Verity is a sinking ship and I believe it's been leaking 58:47.920 --> 58:55.360 a long time but it's just gushing out right now I'm sorry and you need to get out you need to get 58:55.360 --> 59:00.080 out the leadership there we cannot trust the leadership there because they want to be all 59:00.080 --> 59:07.440 hush-hush about everything they do and maybe I'm exaggerating there you know but but the fact that 59:07.440 --> 59:12.640 they were completely hush-hush didn't see counsel doing this entire transition almost gave church 59:12.640 --> 59:19.680 funds to just to get somebody to step down force them down um pastor jared ended up campaigning 59:19.680 --> 59:25.680 later you know we're as a church we're not looking at the thievery against pastor stuckey right 59:25.680 --> 59:32.480 it was wrong it was sin it wasn't just unethical it was sin it was wicked as hell you know we 59:32.480 --> 59:37.920 we need to get right on these things and we need to we need to acknowledge wrong 59:38.640 --> 59:45.280 and we need to acknowledge truth so think about these things if any of you at Verity have questions 59:45.280 --> 59:49.360 you got my number call me I don't want to just call everybody there if you want to call me you 59:49.360 --> 59:54.640 can call me I can answer any questions you have so hopefully that's helpful godspeed 59:56.160 --> 01:00:01.840 let me just add something at the end here really quick um pastor jared has made it known that 01:00:02.640 --> 01:00:07.200 to multiple people and he's told me every he's told everyone at Verity especially all the men 01:00:07.200 --> 01:00:16.160 in that meeting on saturday that he would not reveal um roger jimenez's sin at all and he said 01:00:16.160 --> 01:00:20.160 the reason why he wouldn't he mentioned to some of us is because he found out through a counseling 01:00:20.160 --> 01:00:27.680 session and let me just tell you right now he has broken that commitment to never reveal it he has 01:00:27.680 --> 01:00:33.680 broken it and I know he doesn't want people to know that but it needs to be known so on the 01:00:33.680 --> 01:00:39.520 conversation I had with pastor jared on I think it was friday he um we were talking about the 01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:45.120 moral sin partially and he told me he kept saying well you know everyone already knows what it is 01:00:45.120 --> 01:00:49.200 everyone already knows what it is and I'm like well no no everyone doesn't know what it is 01:00:49.200 --> 01:00:52.400 and I don't know what it is and he said yeah you know what it is and I'm like what pornography 01:00:53.120 --> 01:00:59.760 and he said there you go so let me just say this I do not believe that pornography 01:01:00.560 --> 01:01:06.080 is the full description of what happened I think it was way worse you know pornography you could 01:01:06.080 --> 01:01:10.560 say pornography and it could just be like you know there's there's a spectrum of pornography 01:01:10.560 --> 01:01:17.360 right he could have been spending money on pornography he could have been um you know 01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:23.840 messaging women online right I mean it could have been far worse than watching videos but even if it 01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:30.720 was just watching videos who and there's literally people in verity right now that think that somebody 01:01:30.720 --> 01:01:37.680 who's severely addicted to pornography is is still okay remaining pastor like as long as they fix it 01:01:37.680 --> 01:01:42.160 like they even if you know they're addicted pornography severely for extended extended 01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:48.240 period of time they think that if they just fix it then they can just they're fine they can just 01:01:49.200 --> 01:01:53.760 remain pastor and I'm sorry I disagree with that majorly but I don't even think it was just 01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:59.920 basic pornography I think it was way worse I don't because you know you can go back to 01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:05.200 and re-listen to you know the what happened with Oliver and how he found out and all this stuff 01:02:05.200 --> 01:02:13.200 right so something to keep in mind pastor Jared has broken that commitment to keep it quiet 01:02:13.200 --> 01:02:18.240 and he even said it to another person at Verity that's no longer there I'm not going to say his 01:02:18.240 --> 01:02:23.520 name I'm not sure if he wants me to but he was on the phone with this guy as well and he said the 01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:28.160 exact same thing and he can attest to it so I thought that's important for everyone to know 01:02:29.120 --> 01:02:34.480 my goal is not to harm Verity I love Verity I love everyone there I love Roger Jimenez I want him to 01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:40.720 get right I want him to acknowledge his sin and repent and I want all the people of Verity I want 01:02:40.720 --> 01:02:47.520 to be soul-warning with you guys even 10 years from now and that can happen but if you're just 01:02:47.520 --> 01:02:52.960 going to stay on this ship that's sinking the ship will be at the bottom of the sea in 10 years 01:02:52.960 --> 01:03:00.000 or less less than a year who knows nobody knows the future but please pray about this Verity pray 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.240 about the things that I disclose on this pray about the scriptures that I gave in the beginning 01:03:05.120 --> 01:03:12.320 and put the bible first not man not feelings not emotions but the bible first put truth first 01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:20.880 and honesty and integrity pray about all of this think about all of this Verity and especially 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:29.360 Verity give it some thought seek the truth seek the bible seek God and I hope to hope to see you 01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:32.480 out there so wanting some time Godspeed